The Beaufort Gazette: Despite divisio...

The Beaufort Gazette: Despite divisions nationally, local Episcopal Church split unlikely

There are 8 comments on the www.beaufortgazette.com story from Dec 15, 2008, titled The Beaufort Gazette: Despite divisions nationally, local Episcopal Church split unlikely. In it, www.beaufortgazette.com reports that:

Last month, the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, became the fourth American Episcopal diocese to formally break away from the Episcopal Church, the U.S. branch of Anglicanism, in a long-simmering feud over Biblical authority that included the 2003 consecration of the church's first openly gay bishop, Gene Robinson, of New Hampshire ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.beaufortgazette.com.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1 Dec 15, 2008
"... As for the consecration of openly gay bishops in the Episcopal Church,(Bishop Mark Joseph)Lawrence said he believed the Holy Scripture is 'pretty clear' on the matter.

'While everyone is welcome to come to Christ and into His kingdom, there are certain standards by which those who are ordained ought to meet, and the church needs to uphold those standards,' said Lawrence.'A gay person who is in a partnered relationship does not meet those standards.'"

“Reader”

Since: Oct 07

Baltimore, MD

#2 Dec 16, 2008
Joe DeCaro wrote:
"... As for the consecration of openly gay bishops in the Episcopal Church,(Bishop Mark Joseph)Lawrence said he believed the Holy Scripture is 'pretty clear' on the matter.
'While everyone is welcome to come to Christ and into His kingdom, there are certain standards by which those who are ordained ought to meet, and the church needs to uphold those standards,' said Lawrence.'A gay person who is in a partnered relationship does not meet those standards.'"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I suppose. The people who matter in this case, the people of the diocese of New Hampshire, clearly disagree. In fact, there is every evidence that they are very happy indeed with their choice. As a pastor for the diocese (gay or not), he seems to have been an EXCELLENT choice.

So... Where does Lawrence (or you, for that matter) get off judging him on a biggotted political standard that is irrelivant to the pastoral concerns of faithful christians?

There is, of course, another, and more serious, way in which Lawrence is just plain wrong. We orthodox catholics long ago gave up and condemned a heresey called Donatism.

The donatists were a group of Christians who maintained that the effectiveness of holy orders and/or the sacraments performed was dependent on the spiritual status of the particular individual concerned (in this case, Robinson). This has been recognized as heresey since the 300s and haslong been condemned by the orthodox faithful as unchristian and unorthodox.

So when are you guys going to stop persecuting faithful orthodox christans and see the light of the lord?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#3 Dec 16, 2008
bookguybaltmd wrote:
The donatists were a group of Christians who maintained that the effectiveness of holy orders and/or the sacraments performed was dependent on the spiritual status of the particular individual concerned (in this case, Robinson). This has been recognized as heresey since the 300s and haslong been condemned by the orthodox faithful as unchristian and unorthodox ...
Just as heretical is the opposite of donatism, antinomianism: the belief that frees the Christian from the obligations of the moral law.

“Reader”

Since: Oct 07

Baltimore, MD

#4 Dec 17, 2008
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as heretical is the opposite of donatism, antinomianism: the belief that frees the Christian from the obligations of the moral law.
Once again, I would point out that if you are saying that TEC or I are maintinaing that point of view than you are completely wrong. Neither I nor TEC are saying that anything has freed christians from the obligations of moral law.

I am just saying that long-term, loving and monogamous homosexuality is not against any moral law in scripture, faith, or the traditions of the creeds and seven ecumenical councils.

TEC (different from me) is saying that we have a legitimate pastoral concern to address the pastoral needs of these people and that we need to begin talking about how to address those needs in a realistic, just and merciful way.

Neither position is in any way heretical. In fact, both are the essence of orthodox catholic faith.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#5 Dec 17, 2008
bookguybaltmd wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, I would point out that if you are saying that TEC or I are maintinaing that point of view than you are completely wrong ...
That's a very big "IF".

I'm simply posting that antinomianism is the opposite of donatism; both are extremes and both are wrong, period.

“Reader”

Since: Oct 07

Baltimore, MD

#6 Dec 17, 2008
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a very big "IF".
I'm simply posting that antinomianism is the opposite of donatism; both are extremes and both are wrong, period.
Then mercy! We are in agreement. My point was that TEC is guilty of neither heresy.

And your point in making the reference to antinomianism would be.... what, exactly?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#7 Dec 17, 2008
bookguybaltmd wrote:
... And your point in making the reference to antinomianism would be.... what, exactly?
Simply that the opposite of donatism is also equally wrong, which is what I already posted.

What exactly are you asking for? An example?

“Reader”

Since: Oct 07

Baltimore, MD

#8 Dec 17, 2008
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply that the opposite of donatism is also equally wrong, which is what I already posted.
What exactly are you asking for? An example?
I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were acusing either me or TEC of antiN. I am now understanding you to say that you did not intend to make such a statement. I am now thinking it was just a non-sequiter and didn't relate to the discussion at all. My apologies.

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