Chico officers offer concessions, cit...

Chico officers offer concessions, city says no

There are 45 comments on the Chico Enterprise-Record story from Jun 10, 2013, titled Chico officers offer concessions, city says no. In it, Chico Enterprise-Record reports that:

The Chico Police Officers Association is frustrated after the city rejected its offer to pay the full employee share of its retirement contribution, despite its looming budget cuts.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chico Enterprise-Record.

Gimme my money

United States

#22 Jun 20, 2013
Local wrote:
California Public Sector Retirement
Programs and Compensation
A financial analysis prepared for
The California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility
Capitol Matrix
http://www.fixpensionsfirst.com/docs/Full_Rep...
I say we borrow from Walmart and have a rollback. Time to cut these obscene scams. Our public employees got job security and outrageous wages and pensions.

First we can get rid of those most responsible grunter gandolf and swabby.

Then we can get fire and plaice to get together and accept wage concessions and pension payment reform.

After all, they are a band of brothers,I'm sure they'll come together and accept lower wages to save jobs.
Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#23 Jun 20, 2013
Local wrote:
California Public Sector Retirement
Programs and Compensation
A financial analysis prepared for
The California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility
Capitol Matrix
http://www.fixpensionsfirst.com/docs/Full_Rep...
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, how many of those listed are still working for the City of Chico? And do you have any idea what any of those listed did for the city of Chico.

Are you now working or have you ever worked for someone and were you paid for your services??
Local

United States

#24 Jun 20, 2013
Toad Roady wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, how many of those listed are still working for the City of Chico? And do you have any idea what any of those listed did for the city of Chico.
Are you now working or have you ever worked for someone and were you paid for your services??
Could you please stick to Lincoln politics.

This is a chico topic, we don't have the tax base you do. We don't have the retail and property tax revenue you do.

I frequently drive through the land of the fighting zebras and am amazed at all the retail there.

Chico is a smallish ag town without a large tax base. The public employees should be paid more in line with Redding or Paradise, not Roseville or Granite Bay.

The question is not whether they worked or are working for the city or what they did, the issue is their pensions are bloated and will cause us financial hardship for years.
The Dude

Chico, CA

#25 Jun 20, 2013
Local wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you please stick to Lincoln politics.
This is a chico topic, we don't have the tax base you do. We don't have the retail and property tax revenue you do.
I frequently drive through the land of the fighting zebras and am amazed at all the retail there.
Chico is a smallish ag town without a large tax base. The public employees should be paid more in line with Redding or Paradise, not Roseville or Granite Bay.
The question is not whether they worked or are working for the city or what they did, the issue is their pensions are bloated and will cause us financial hardship for years.
There seems to be some confusion here. The public money contributed to the CalPers system for all of the employees on that list was spent during their employment. Now that they are retired, their benefits are being paid by CalPers based on their pension formula, years of service and age. You could eliminate their pensions entirely and it wouldn't save Chico taxpayers a dime at this point.
Local

United States

#26 Jun 20, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
There seems to be some confusion here. The public money contributed to the CalPers system for all of the employees on that list was spent during their employment. Now that they are retired, their benefits are being paid by CalPers based on their pension formula, years of service and age. You could eliminate their pensions entirely and it wouldn't save Chico taxpayers a dime at this point.
1. Just by daylighting these figures it helps people(taxpayers) become more aware of what their local gov't is doing and paying retirees. There is obviously a lot of discontent now that the city is broke and people are looking for answers. One of the obvious answers is that we are too generous with retirees.

2. I am not a retiree/pension expert, but it seems you could say hey Calpers we are cutting all current chico retirees by 15%. The 15% that is not paid by Calpers is then passed on to the city of chico in the form of reduced pension payments. It can't be written in stone and desperate times call for desperate measures.
Chi-fire

Paradise, CA

#27 Jun 21, 2013
Funny to see a city leader get lead by the nose by a city staffer!  Stone bit hard into Constantine's plan to tear into public safety with the misinformation they produced about public safety wages and the "cash" price! And to think he prides himself on his fiscal abilities... The number may be right for public safety wages, but what's missing is how they got there. Key facts like 56 hour work weeks, forced overtime by both police and fire to meet the minimum requirements for staffing... Overtime because they won't hire new people to distribute the work, while telling us and the public that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire bodies.  Overtime that is often times  reimbursed for fighting fires though out the state, to cover mandatory training and cover positions for vacation and sick-leave. If Randell Stone doesn't go to work, nobody has to cover for him, but there will be three people on every piece of apparatus the workshop Chico Fire and Rescue.  Did you hear that Randall, Chico Fire!!!!!!  We are a Fire department, one that provides service to any and every emergency that the citizens of Chico can imagine...  There is no 9-1-2, we are your emergency service!  
Common sense isn't that common! Our leadership intentionally misled the public to follow their agenda, pure and simple! Men without honor have played their card and outed themselves. Im thankful for the support our community has shown your fire department, and like Capt Hunn stated, it's in times like these that your support means the most.  Make no mistake, our leadership means to break the trust we have with you, our community. Our neighbors, friends, our family and strangers that we are sworn to protect.  We will do our job, and we will do it with honor!  I hope you demand the same from Stone and the rest of City of Chico staff. 

To those that believe all that comes, from City Hall is the truth, ask yourselves how we got into this position in the first place...  $116k is a deception, pure crap by a council member and city staffer.
City employee

United States

#28 Jun 21, 2013
Chi-fire wrote:
Funny to see a city leader get lead by the nose by a city staffer!  Stone bit hard into Constantine's plan to tear into public safety with the misinformation they produced about public safety wages and the "cash" price! And to think he prides himself on his fiscal abilities... The number may be right for public safety wages, but what's missing is how they got there. Key facts like 56 hour work weeks, forced overtime by both police and fire to meet the minimum requirements for staffing... Overtime because they won't hire new people to distribute the work, while telling us and the public that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire bodies.  Overtime that is often times  reimbursed for fighting fires though out the state, to cover mandatory training and cover positions for vacation and sick-leave. If Randell Stone doesn't go to work, nobody has to cover for him, but there will be three people on every piece of apparatus the workshop Chico Fire and Rescue.  Did you hear that Randall, Chico Fire!!!!!!  We are a Fire department, one that provides service to any and every emergency that the citizens of Chico can imagine...  There is no 9-1-2, we are your emergency service!  
Common sense isn't that common! Our leadership intentionally misled the public to follow their agenda, pure and simple! Men without honor have played their card and outed themselves. Im thankful for the support our community has shown your fire department, and like Capt Hunn stated, it's in times like these that your support means the most.  Make no mistake, our leadership means to break the trust we have with you, our community. Our neighbors, friends, our family and strangers that we are sworn to protect.  We will do our job, and we will do it with honor!  I hope you demand the same from Stone and the rest of City of Chico staff. 
To those that believe all that comes, from City Hall is the truth, ask yourselves how we got into this position in the first place...  $116k is a deception, pure crap by a council member and city staffer.
You can spin all you want, WE CAN'T AFFORD CHI-FIRE!!!!!!!

1. Majority of your calls are non essential medical calls. Don't try to bullshit any body on that one.

2. Chico is more comparable to redding paradise etc not Roseville or granite bay

3. We are a small ag town and we can't afford you we need to do what paradise did.

4. We can't have a fireman making 140,000 plus and don't pull the the overtime bullshit while the majority of this town makes it on 50,000 or less mostly less.

5. Bottom line. We pay your wages, you're in my pocket pulling too much money. The true colors show when you mess with people's money. You guys could banded together and saved those positions but I guess you're really not a band of brothers
Local

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

#29 Jun 21, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
There seems to be some confusion here. The public money contributed to the CalPers system for all of the employees on that list was spent during their employment. Now that they are retired, their benefits are being paid by CalPers based on their pension formula, years of service and age. You could eliminate their pensions entirely and it wouldn't save Chico taxpayers a dime at this point.
Au contraire
Calpers can and has extracted more money(by law) from government entities whenever they feel the need.

CALPERS, which had assets of $233 billion as of June 30, has an annual investment return target of 7.5%, which it had lowered from 7.75% recently.

The data is a bad sign for public pension funds nationally, many of which are under pressure as governments face large budget deficits and face troubles funding their pension commitments.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2012/0...

State and local government pension and retiree health care plans are coming under scrutiny throughout the country because of their unfunded liabilities. That's the difference between current assets and what taxpayers will be required to pay government retirees in the long term.

Graduate students at Stanford University issued a report last month estimating California's unfunded pension liability at $239.7 billion for CalPERS and $156.7 billion for CalSTRS.
Ruth

United States

#30 Jun 21, 2013
A man was repeatedly hit in the head by a suspect armed with a gun at about 2:30 p.m. Wednesday at the intersection of West Fifth Street and Broadway.
The suspect fled in a dark-colored 1990s four-door Saturn or similar car. According to witnesses, there were two additional black males in the car.
The suspect is described as a 6-foot-3-inch black man with muscular build, a shaved head and wearing a dark shirt.
This happened at 2:30p.m.
Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#31 Jun 21, 2013
Dude & Chi -fire,

Both of you are 100% on the money! Maybe today those retirements seem exuberant butt those retirements are what were promised back when the economy was "smoking".

I worked for the state starting in 1980 and have lived through several ups and downs. When the economy was cooking I took the promise of retirement and benefits instead of pay. Prevailing wage today is damn near twice what I made at my job.

I’ll tell you what, if these morons want to give me the difference in what I was paid and what comparable compensation was for my career, compound it and interest at prime rate these idiots would owe me in excess of three million.

Another point, most of what I’m paid is interest from investments made by PERS.
Chi-fire

Paradise, CA

#32 Jun 21, 2013
City employee wrote:
<quoted text>
You can spin all you want, WE CAN'T AFFORD CHI-FIRE!!!!!!!
1. Majority of your calls are non essential medical calls. Don't try to bullshit any body on that one.
2. Chico is more comparable to redding paradise etc not Roseville or granite bay
3. We are a small ag town and we can't afford you we need to do what paradise did.
4. We can't have a fireman making 140,000 plus and don't pull the the overtime bullshit while the majority of this town makes it on 50,000 or less mostly less.
5. Bottom line. We pay your wages, you're in my pocket pulling too much money. The true colors show when you mess with people's money. You guys could banded together and saved those positions but I guess you're really not a band of brothers
Yes a huge majority of our calls are medicals, it's about 70% across the nation. We're no different. Not all our.medical calls are true emergencies, but we're not in the business of telling people "what your experiencing is not really an emergency, so take an aspirin and call someone who cares". The fact is that the city or taxpaters don't pay a dime for us to go on medicals. We are there and staffed for fires. If we didn't go to medicals we would still be there, staffed 24-7-365. So essential or non essential really doesn't change the price you pay, which is about .35 cents a day.#2. Lay off the pipe, you are high if you compare us to Paradise. Redding? Maybe?, but they have a budget of 16million this year, not 12.8 million like Chico. Use them as comparables, make sure you look at their City manager, Assistant City Manager and Finance Director. We look really good against them huh.#3. Again, pass the bong lady! Chico hasn't been a small ag town for about 20 years.... Are you suggesting that Chico go Cal Fire? Go ahead! We win again! Paradise isn't saving any money, they just differed the cost a few years... Thats when they will be picking up their retirement medical costs. Don't forget the Administrative fees that go straight to Sacramento and Battalion Chiefs. Cal fire is great at what they do, but when you compare them to Chico and the coverage provided there is no savings.#4. Tell your city to hire positions, like the Fire Union did. They have several letters stating the need for positions to lower overtime and build the staffing levels. Top step Captain in Chico tops out at $103k. If they hire for the vacancies that they let run year after year the forced overtime number drops off significantly. It will never completely disappear because of being sent though out the state during the Summer fire season, and coverage behind vacations and sickleave. Does someone sit at your desk doing your job if your not there? No? Well they do in our line of work! Add to that salary that number includes a 56 hour work week without overtime. Go get another job for 16 hours a week and see if that brings up your yearly income... I'm no genious, but I'm going to say it makes your tax earnings look 40% bigger than it was.#5. Let me remind you, you pay .35 cents a day for a service that is there for you every day and night for any essential or non essential emergency, with no limits! We go on some people several times a week. Same price,.35 cents a day! As for being in your pocket? Pass the pipe lady! We are the only bargaining unit to not take a raise, and we actually gave back contracted raises at 13%. You lost me entirely on the band of brothers thing? There are no actual body's to get rid of, that's why they call them vacancies(pass the pipe) I'm not sure by your title if you work for the city or not, but if you do, I pay your salary too! And for the record, I hope you see me true colors! Red, white and Blue! Everyday 24-7-365. God bless America!
Tree Frog

Chico, CA

#33 Jun 22, 2013
Chi-fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes a huge majority of our calls are medicals, it's about 70% across the nation. We're no different. Not all our.medical calls are true emergencies, but we're not in the business of telling people "what your experiencing is not really an emergency, so take an aspirin and call someone who cares". The fact is that the city or taxpaters don't pay a dime for us to go on medicals. We are there and staffed for fires. If we didn't go to medicals we would still be there, staffed 24-7-365. So essential or non essential really doesn't change the price you pay, which is about .35 cents a day.#2. Lay off the pipe, you are high if you compare us to Paradise. Redding? Maybe?, but they have a budget of 16million this year, not 12.8 million like Chico. Use them as comparables, make sure you look at their City manager, Assistant City Manager and Finance Director. We look really good against them huh.#3. Again, pass the bong lady! Chico hasn't been a small ag town for about 20 years.... Are you suggesting that Chico go Cal Fire? Go ahead! We win again! Paradise isn't saving any money, they just differed the cost a few years... Thats when they will be picking up their retirement medical costs. Don't forget the Administrative fees that go straight to Sacramento and Battalion Chiefs. Cal fire is great at what they do, but when you compare them to Chico and the coverage provided there is no savings.#4. Tell your city to hire positions, like the Fire Union did. They have several letters stating the need for positions to lower overtime and build the staffing levels. Top step Captain in Chico tops out at $103k. If they hire for the vacancies that they let run year after year the forced overtime number drops off significantly. It will never completely disappear because of being sent though out the state during the Summer fire season, and coverage behind vacations and sickleave. Does someone sit at your desk doing your job if your not there? No? Well they do in our line of work! Add to that salary that number includes a 56 hour work week without overtime. Go get another job for 16 hours a week and see if that brings up your yearly income... I'm no genious, but I'm going to say it makes your tax earnings look 40% bigger than it was.#5. Let me remind you, you pay .35 cents a day for a service that is there for you every day and night for any essential or non essential emergency, with no limits! We go on some people several times a week. Same price,.35 cents a day! As for being in your pocket? Pass the pipe lady! We are the only bargaining unit to not take a raise, and we actually gave back contracted raises at 13%. You lost me entirely on the band of brothers thing? There are no actual body's to get rid of, that's why they call them vacancies(pass the pipe) I'm not sure by your title if you work for the city or not, but if you do, I pay your salary too! And for the record, I hope you see me true colors! Red, white and Blue! Everyday 24-7-365. God bless America!
You should apply for employment at those cities which can afford to pay the salaries you feel you deserve.
Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#34 Jun 22, 2013
Tree Frog wrote:
<quoted text>
You should apply for employment at those cities which can afford to pay the salaries you feel you deserve.
That is exactly what these fireman have done! When these people agreed to work for the City of Chico it was because of what YOU offered them.

Don't like what they ask for, don't pay it for new employees butt you can't take back what you already agreed to pay in years past.
henny penny

United States

#35 Jun 22, 2013
Ruth wrote:
A man was repeatedly hit in the head by a suspect armed with a gun at about 2:30 p.m. Wednesday at the intersection of West Fifth Street and Broadway.
The suspect fled in a dark-colored 1990s four-door Saturn or similar car. According to witnesses, there were two additional black males in the car.
The suspect is described as a 6-foot-3-inch black man with muscular build, a shaved head and wearing a dark shirt.
This happened at 2:30p.m.
Whats your point??

Oh wait this is the chicken little post, if we don't pay police/fire whatever they want we will all get pistol whipped and our houses will burn down
local

United States

#36 Jun 22, 2013
Toad Roady wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly what these fireman have done! When these people agreed to work for the City of Chico it was because of what YOU offered them.
Don't like what they ask for, don't pay it for new employees butt you can't take back what you already agreed to pay in years past.
The firemen are public employees and therefore subject to both wage and pension rollbacks

Could you please stick to Lincoln politics, you have no understanding of chico politics and only serve to muddy the waters
Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#37 Jun 22, 2013
local wrote:
<quoted text>
The firemen are public employees and therefore subject to both wage and pension rollbacks
Could you please stick to Lincoln politics, you have no understanding of chico politics and only serve to muddy the waters
The problem you’re experiencing is everywhere.

One hell of a lot of my state taxes go to Chico so it is my problem. None of your taxes go to the city of Lincoln unless you own property within the city limits.

It's you and several others who are lying about the problem as it relates to public workers.

Have you ever actually worked for a living?

Have you ever been paid for actually doing work?
local

United States

#38 Jun 22, 2013
response to Chi-fire

1. I would venture a guess that 70% is low, but even if it was correct, the remaining 30% are bullshit calls. Car keys in the DI, golf club on the roof, cat in the tree etc.
2. Chico is very comparable to Redding and Paradise, maybe I will take the time and research salaries in surrounding communities. If I do I think I'll find Chi-fire vastly overpaid. Other communities seem to be doing well with lower pai fire personnel. Don't hear any news/stories of cities burning down. as for city manager and others at least we can fire them for doing a shitty job. I don't mind over paying three people but we can't overpay all of chi-fire. Besides they have a much tougher job they deserve what they get.
3. Yes we should investigate switching to cal fire things seem to be ok in paradise. I'm sure there would be cost savings. Chico is still a small town, with very few fires and dangerous fire situations. I know you guys would love it to be more fire drama, but reality is there are no huge highrises here and you are basically overpaid emt's.
4. Hire more chi-fire, thats exactly what we don't want to do. We need to do more with less. By less I mean less firefighters, yes cut those 5 vacancies then cut some more. Who works 56 hrs that includes sleep time workout time grocery shopping, sounds like a fricken vacation. You guys cant even mow the damn lawns at thr firehouse. Filling in for vacation, does that include taking vacation then getting ot to fill in for yourself, yeah heard about that one.
5. You guys have been in the taxpayers pocket for the last 10 years. As for all the drug references, I know how you operate, people must be crazy to not give you guys whatever you want, well we did and you brought us to the brink of bankruptcy.
Look, bottom line. The city is almost broke, you and your greedy counterparts played a big part in getting us here. Now whether you like it or not, you're going to play a part in getting us out.
Randall made a great point in the life in chico post, judging by reaction I would call it 50-50. the only problem with your 50 it is mostly spouses, kids and people benefitting from the greed. They don't want to lose the Mercedes, rental houses vacations etc. The pigs always squeal the loudest when theyre being pulled from the trough.
you know you can always go to the big city and play real fireman, I'm sure we can find suitable replacements who will work for much less among the hundreds of applicants for one job.
local

United States

#39 Jun 22, 2013
Toad Roady wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem you’re experiencing is everywhere.
One hell of a lot of my state taxes go to Chico so it is my problem. None of your taxes go to the city of Lincoln unless you own property within the city limits.
It's you and several others who are lying about the problem as it relates to public workers.
Have you ever actually worked for a living?
Have you ever been paid for actually doing work?
Mr. Toad Roady, again your lack of knowledge regarding Chico politics has shown through.

Could you please refrain from entering any discussions regarding Chico politics?

Thank you
Grandma Ruth

Chico, CA

#41 Jun 23, 2013
Local wrote:
too little too late. The government workers already have all of the money....and now?
Some of them must lose their jobs.
retired California government workers
receive pensions in excess of $100,000
from CalPERS
Name Employer Warrant Amount Annual
Alexander, Thomas E City of Chico $8,947.23 $107,366.76
Baptiste, Antoine G City of Chico $10,409.65 $124,915.80
Beardsley, Dennis D City of Chico $8,510.23 $102,122.76
Brown, John S City of Chico $17,210.38 $206,524.56
Carrillo, John A City of Chico $10,398.98 $124,787.76
Davis, Fred City of Chico $12,467.78 $149,613.36
Dunlap, Patricia A City of Chico $10,847.05 $130,164.60
Fell, John G City of Chico $9,209.35 $110,512.20
Frank, David R City of Chico $14,830.05 $177,960.60
Garrison, Frank W City of Chico $8,933.56 $107,202.72
Jack, James F City of Chico $9,095.09 $109,141.08
Lando, Thomas J City of Chico $11,236.48 $134,837.76
Mcenespy, Barbara L City of Chico $12,573.40 $150,880.80
Pierce, Cynthia City of Chico $9,390.30 $112,683.60
Probst, John D City of Chico $8,361.02 $100,332.24
Ross, Earnest C City of Chico $9,496.60 $113,959.20
Sellers, Clifford R City of Chico $9,511.11 $114,133.32
Vonderhaar, John F City of Chico $8,488.07 $101,856.84
Voris, Timothy M City of Chico $8,433.90 $101,206.80
Weber, Michael C City of Chico $11,321.93 $135,863.16
http://www.fixpensionsfirst.com/calpers2012/...
I tripped and twisted my ankle in a gopher hole at One Mile. If there's any money left in the City budget can we hire someone to trap the critters please.
Kit carson

United States

#42 Jun 23, 2013
Grandma Ruth wrote:
<quoted text>
I tripped and twisted my ankle in a gopher hole at One Mile. If there's any money left in the City budget can we hire someone to trap the critters please.
Gophers are the least of it. The fire dept can carry around some rat poison and just drop it down their hole.

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