Where McDonald's wages start near $15...

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#714 Oct 2, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>

Show us how 'government intervention' caused the subprime meltdown. Show us the actual mandate from the government that forced these companies to make loans that had little chance of being repaid.
I already did. I gave you the links to the congressional records citing that legislation. I gave you sworn testimony from the head of HUD. You just read Barney Frank's own admission to government involvement. Yet you will not believe reality. You are living in your own self deluded world.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

#715 Oct 2, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
You fail to understand that there are good regulations and bad regulations. When it comes to our government they keep making bad regulations that interfere in the market. The Canadian banking system wasn't hit by the recession, at least not to the extent that we were, and some say that their regulations prevented the financial bubble hitting their economy. The Canadian government is also not in the business of trying to tell banks to lend to those who cannot afford it.
>
>
I am perfectly aware that there are regulations that outlived their usefulness and ought to be repealed, on the other hand I am mature enough to realize that just because a regulation inconveniences me and does not make sense to me it does not mean said regulation is bad.

The reason the "financial bubble" hit our economy is not because of the regulations but because lending institutions disregarded long standing standard lending practices while bush the w's regulators looked the other way...
The right is wrong

Lincoln, CA

#716 Oct 2, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
I already did. I gave you the links to the congressional records citing that legislation. I gave you sworn testimony from the head of HUD. You just read Barney Frank's own admission to government involvement. Yet you will not believe reality. You are living in your own self deluded world.
I guess I missed it also so please show us how 'government intervention' caused the subprime meltdown. Show us the actual mandate from the government that forced these companies to make loans that had little chance of being repaid.

The legislation that allowed the problem to occur was the Glass-Steagal Act and a court case saying Banks and mortgage companies couldn’t discriminate because of a persons color or where the house/property was.

Quit trying to change history sam.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#717 Oct 2, 2013
The right is wrong wrote:
<quoted text>

The legislation that allowed the problem to occur was the Glass-Steagal Act and a court case saying Banks and mortgage companies couldn’t discriminate because of a persons color or where the house/property was.
So now you are saying that legislation did cause the problem.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#718 Oct 2, 2013
GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>
>
>

The reason the "financial bubble" hit our economy is not because of the regulations but because lending institutions disregarded long standing standard lending practices while bush the w's regulators looked the other way...
Lending institutions did not disregard lending practices. Lending institutions were told to forego long standing lending practices.
Just ask Barney Frank.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

#719 Oct 3, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Lending institutions did not disregard lending practices. Lending institutions were told to forego long standing lending practices.
Just ask Barney Frank.
>
>
I don't want to ask Barney Frank anything, I want to see the official documents stating that lending institutions should offer loans to anyone who was not capable of repaying them and that they should also give NINJA loans (No Income No Job and Assets) to anyone who could fog a mirror...

I also want to see where Wall Street was officially told to package worthless mortgages into Mortgage Backed Securities and to peddle them as AAA investments...
The right is wrong

Lincoln, CA

#720 Oct 3, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you are saying that legislation did cause the problem.
The legislation that allowed the problem to occur was the legislation pushed by repubicans that repealed the Glass-Steagal Act and a court case saying Banks and mortgage companies couldn’t discriminate because of a persons color or where the house/property was.

Please provide a link showing that any legislation told lending institutions to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.
Local

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

#721 Oct 3, 2013
The Clinton administration put the CRA on steroids and boasted about doing so. But, the one event which probably contributed the most to the current housing mess came in 1999 when Clinton pressured Fannie Mae to lower “the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders”.

When Clinton made that move, the New York Times warned:

“In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of [subprime] lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.”

anything else my lil curmudgeon?
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

#722 Oct 3, 2013
Local wrote:
The Clinton administration put the CRA on steroids and boasted about doing so. But, the one event which probably contributed the most to the current housing mess came in 1999 when Clinton pressured Fannie Mae to lower “the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders”.
When Clinton made that move, the New York Times warned:
“In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of [subprime] lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.”
anything else my lil curmudgeon?
This is getting old. You and Sam keep repeating the same lies about the CRA and the GSE's (Fannie/Freddie). No, they did NOT cause the subprime meltdown.

As I've shown, CRA underwritten loans were not subprime loans. They didn't make loans to everyone, as did subprime lenders such as Ameriquest. The CRA loans performed well during the meltdown, as did Fannie/Freddie loans.

Subprime lenders and the Wall Street firms who pooled subprime loans, and got Moody's to stamp these pools as Triple A, were motivated by greed, NOT by any government mandate. The CRA had no oversight of these subprime loans. The GSE's did not originate subprime loans.

There was plenty of things wrong with the GSE's, but it was NOT shabby underwriting. They make PRIME loans, not subprime loans.

But Limbaugh, Heritage, Cato, and many other right-wingers can't stand the fact that greed and deregulation were the reasons for the subprime meltdown. So, they try to change the facts and rewrite history. Their revisionist history absolves the greedy wallstreeters from any blame. They also reject the fact that deregulation of these industries, along with Bush's hands-off SEC, allowed the greedy PRIVATE COMPANIES to sink our economy.

Their revision of history has to support their belief system, facts don't matter. So their story is that the government caused the meltdown with its regulations. Not just 'the government', but the democratic party, of course.

This is a lie.

And partisan shills like yourself just lap it up.
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

#723 Oct 3, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you are saying that legislation did cause the problem.
Now you're just being cute-- and stupid.

Yes, lil Sammy, the legislation that caused the problem were bills that ELIMINATED regulations. First there was the legislation that eliminated the important safeguards of the Glass-Steagall law.

And soon after there was the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted...derivatives such as credit default swaps from regulation. And this bill actually gave wallstreeters the freedom (freedom for them, disaster for us) to put together their mortgage pools and sink the world's economy.
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

#724 Oct 3, 2013
Remember Alan Greenspan? He was the Fed Chairman before and during the meltdown. He was part of Ayn Rand's inner circle and was a deregulating libertarian.

"Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan Now Says He Was Wrong To Oppose Regulation Of Derivatives. As reported by the New York Times:

[O]n Thursday, almost three years after stepping down as chairman of the Federal Reserve, a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending.

He noted that the immense and largely unregulated business of spreading financial risk widely, through the use of exotic financial instruments called derivatives, had gotten out of control and had added to the havoc of today's crisis. As far back as 1994, Mr. Greenspan staunchly and successfully opposed tougher regulation on derivatives.

But on Thursday, he agreed that the multitrillion-dollar market for credit default swaps, instruments originally created to insure bond investors against the risk of default, needed to be restrained.

"This modern risk-management paradigm held sway for decades," he said. "The whole intellectual edifice, however, collapsed in the summer of last year." [New York Times, 10/23/08]
Local

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

#725 Oct 3, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
This is getting old. You and Sam keep repeating the same lies about the CRA and the GSE's (Fannie/Freddie). No, they did NOT cause the subprime meltdown.
As I've shown, CRA underwritten loans were not subprime loans. They didn't make loans to everyone, as did subprime lenders such as Ameriquest. The CRA loans performed well during the meltdown, as did Fannie/Freddie loans.
Subprime lenders and the Wall Street firms who pooled subprime loans, and got Moody's to stamp these pools as Triple A, were motivated by greed, NOT by any government mandate. The CRA had no oversight of these subprime loans. The GSE's did not originate subprime loans.
There was plenty of things wrong with the GSE's, but it was NOT shabby underwriting. They make PRIME loans, not subprime loans.
But Limbaugh, Heritage, Cato, and many other right-wingers can't stand the fact that greed and deregulation were the reasons for the subprime meltdown. So, they try to change the facts and rewrite history. Their revisionist history absolves the greedy wallstreeters from any blame. They also reject the fact that deregulation of these industries, along with Bush's hands-off SEC, allowed the greedy PRIVATE COMPANIES to sink our economy.
Their revision of history has to support their belief system, facts don't matter. So their story is that the government caused the meltdown with its regulations. Not just 'the government', but the democratic party, of course.
This is a lie.
And partisan shills like yourself just lap it up.
Barney Frank has become the modern day "deep throat"(pun intended) in regard to Clinton era democrat/corruption/legislatio n.
and the housing crash began when Clinton triangulated the amendments to CRA/repeal of Glass Steagll.
The Finance moderization Act.
Own it lil teepee.
YOU cannot change history.
don't you worry your thick lil mellon......as 2016 gets closer, you will be hearing more and more about why our nation's economy nearly collapsed as a result of Clinton triangulation(circa 1999).
Ole butt hole Barney(D) is just one of the first to speak up.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#726 Oct 3, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>

Yes, lil Sammy, the legislation that caused the problem were bills that ELIMINATED regulations. First there was the legislation that eliminated the important safeguards of the Glass-Steagall law.
And soon after there was the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted...derivatives such as credit default swaps from regulation. And this bill actually gave wallstreeters the freedom (freedom for them, disaster for us) to put together their mortgage pools and sink the world's economy.
You too now are saying that regulations caused the financial meltdown. Government enacts regulations and government changes regulations. As I said before, government is the problem. Government interference in the market causes ALL market problems.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#727 Oct 3, 2013
"in 2010, the new HUD secretary, Shawn Donovan, told the House Financial Services Committee:“Seeing their market share decline [between 2004 and 2006] as a result of a change of demand, the GSEs made the decision to widen their focus from safer prime loans and begin chasing the non-prime market, loosening longstanding underwriting and risk management standards along the way.”

http://www.openmarket.org/2013/09/19/ignoring...

"In an interview, Freddie Mac’s former chief risk officer, David A. Andrukonis, recalled telling Mr. Syron in mid-2004 that the company was buying bad loans that “would likely pose an enormous financial and reputational risk to the company and the country.”

Mr. Syron received a memo stating that the firm’s underwriting standards were becoming shoddier and that the company was becoming exposed to losses, according to Mr. Andrukonis and two others familiar with the document.

But as they sat in a conference room, Mr. Syron refused to consider possibilities for reducing Freddie Mac’s risks, said Mr. Andrukonis, who left in 2005 to become a teacher.

“He said we couldn’t afford to say no to anyone,” Mr. Andrukonis said. Over the next three years, Freddie Mac continued buying riskier loans."

"However, the companies were constantly under pressure to buy riskier mortgages. Once, a high-ranking Democrat telephoned executives and screamed at them to purchase more loans from low-income borrowers, according to a Congressional source. Shareholders attacked the executives for missing profitable opportunities by being too cautious.

Mr. Syron and Mr. Mudd eventually yielded to those pressures, effectively wagering that if things got too bad, the government would bail them out. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/business/05...

"The HUD secretary is also required to produce voluminous rules that govern how the GSEs meet those goals, and the 187-page rules Cuomo issued opened the door to abuse.

The rules explicitly rejected the idea of imposing any new reporting requirements on the GSEs. In other words, HUD wanted Fannie and Freddie to buy risky loans, but the department didn't want to hear just how risky they were."

http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVers...

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#728 Oct 3, 2013
"Those and other choices initially paid off for Mr. Syron, who has collected more than $38 million in compensation since 2003."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/business/05...
Local

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

#729 Oct 3, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
"Those and other choices initially paid off for Mr. Syron, who has collected more than $38 million in compensation since 2003."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/business/05...
Yes, Community Reinvestment Act to blame for mortgage crisis
The Community Reinvestment Act, or CRA, regulations caused the failure of the two government-sponsored mortgage investment giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and their failure is at the heart of the housing market meltdown.

The CRA also resulted in lowering the lending standards in the banking industry. Not only did banks need to comply with the CRA for their expansion and growth but they also needed to compete with non-banking mortgage companies, like Countrywide.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-10-14/n...

Ole teepee is getting his arse kicked on this one....again.
He must be busy gathering talking points from the dailykos.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#730 Oct 3, 2013
Local wrote:
<quoted text>

Ole teepee is getting his arse kicked on this one....again.
He must be busy gathering talking points from the dailykos.
But you know that these Lefties are so stuck on their dogma that they can't see the facts.
Local

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

#731 Oct 3, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
But you know that these Lefties are so stuck on their dogma that they can't see the facts.
“You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.”
They simply will not throw the philanderer in chief under the bus.........even when he deserves it.
That is very odd.
Of course, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

ROTFLMAO

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#732 Oct 4, 2013
Local wrote:
<quoted text>
“You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.”
They simply will not throw the philanderer in chief under the bus.........even when he deserves it.
That is very odd.
Of course, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.
ROTFLMAO
It is fun to see what kind of ridiculousness these Lefties come up with to try to deny the facts. The only ones they are convincing is themselves. They are masters at deluding themselves.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

#733 Oct 4, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
It is fun to see what kind of ridiculousness these Lefties come up with to try to deny the facts. The only ones they are convincing is themselves. They are masters at deluding themselves.
>
>
I totally agree with you, however...

You made a tiny mistake and wrote "Lefties" where you should have written RIGHT WING NUTS..

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