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“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Paradise, CA

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#570
Sep 22, 2013
 

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Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
YOUR article "is an opinion piece based on so many LIBERTARIAN fallacies". It certainly was not an actual economics work.
And the majority of real economists do not subscribe to the Austrian School armchair philosophy of economics.
Nor do they run to the simplistic fictions of Ayn Rand to solve complex economic problems.
Who said anything about Austrian economics? When have you ever seen me cite Ayn Rand?
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

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#571
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
It is funny that you list countries, all except the Netherlands, that are ranked higher than the U.S for economic freedom. Which means these countries are less socialistic than the U.S.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
According to this list from Heritage, many of the factors in these countries that give them economic freedom includes strong government controls.

These countries also have much stronger safety nets than we do. They also feature some kind of government regulated health insurance. Most of these are single-payer systems. In the US righties hate Obamacare, which doesn't come even close to being a single-payer system.

These countries are much more socialistic than the US. Their governments are also a lot more intelligent and mature.
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

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#572
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said anything about Austrian economics? When have you ever seen me cite Ayn Rand?
Playing hide and seek? Of course the source you cited, and your own viewpoints, are Libertarian. You've often voiced your belief in Libertarian philosophy, including Mises and others of the Austrian School. Your comments regarding economics, including eliminating the minimum wage, are all libertarian concepts.

What, are you disavowing Mises and the Austrian School now? Even if you are, your posts show much differently.

Ayn Rand's simpleton novels reflect your simpleton viewpoints perfectly, whether you've read her or not.
Tea Party Solution

Chico, CA

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#573
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no collective when it comes to capitalism.
I provided many ways that the ‘collective’ supports capitalism. But you didn’t respond to what I wrote. Instead you just repeated the same simpleton statement.
Sam Lowree wrote:
<You really should try to read more carefully or improve your reading comprehension before you reply. That way you won’t look so silly.
You should try reading and actually RESPONDING to what I write, so that you look less silly.
Sam Lowree wrote:
<We are not a collective
.
Then what is a collective if not ‘we’?
Sam Lowree wrote:
< The government takes our money by force and spends it where they decide to spend it. The tax payers have no choice in the matter.
Another adolescent libertarian comment. Paying taxes is part of the social contract. If I buy a car and get a car loan, I’d better make the payments or force will be used against me. Contracts are enforced.

You moved here, Sam. You knew we had taxes when you moved here, so there was no ‘force’ involved.

Our Founding Fathers did not rebel because of taxes. They rebelled because of “taxation without representation”. And we HAVE representation. Sam, you need to acquaint yourself with US history. I'm serious.

Actually, people in states such as Texas and N.Carolina should stage a REAL tea party revolution. In those and other republican states they’re trying to block people from voting. No taxation without representation!
Sam Lowree wrote:
< Private businesses will build their own infrastructure where and when they need to.
Do you EVER think these things through? What would be the cost of each business having to build its own roads, bridges, police, fire department, electrical grids, on and on? Will they have to build their own court system as well? Won’t all of these huge costs then have to be paid by the consumer with items and services costing 5 times what they cost now?

Who would determine what business is responsible for each road or part of a road? With no ‘collective’ to organize these ridiculously complex issues, it would be complete anarchy.

We have a system, as do all established societies, where we share in the costs of those things and services that we share. It’s much more efficient, and much less costly than the kind of chaotic anarchy you suggest.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Paradise, CA

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#574
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
According to this list from Heritage, many of the factors in these countries that give them economic freedom includes strong government controls.
These countries also have much stronger safety nets than we do. They also feature some kind of government regulated health insurance. Most of these are single-payer systems. In the US righties hate Obamacare, which doesn't come even close to being a single-payer system.
These countries are much more socialistic than the US. Their governments are also a lot more intelligent and mature.
How in the world did you read that strong government controls equals more freedom from the study? You have it completely backwards. You have to learn to read if you want to comprehend anything more complex than Mediamatters.

You are clueless about what kind of health care any of those countries have. Mind you all of them would be far better than what we face with Obamacare, the people that wrote Obamacare are idiots.

"Consequently, America's ranking has fallen in all areas that the report measures. In size of government, it is ranked 59th out of 152 countries. Our legal system and security of property rights ranks 30th, while our freedom to trade internationally is 43rd.
Worse, the U.S. is a true regulatory state, ranking 121st in credit market regulation and 33rd in business regulations.
The trouble with less-free economies is their universal poor performance. The freer a country's economy, the more prosperous its people. The less free, the more miserable."

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/0920...
Follow us:@IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Paradise, CA

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#575
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Tea Party Solution wrote:
Another adolescent libertarian comment. Paying taxes is part of the social contract. If I buy a car and get a car loan, I’d better make the payments or force will be used against me. Contracts are enforced.
You moved here, Sam. You knew we had taxes when you moved here, so there was no ‘force’ involved.
What kind of contract is constantly changing to benefit one party without agreement of the other party? When you default on your auto loan the bank does not come and kick down your door and throw you in jail. You will lose the vehicle but that is not force against you. Maybe if you default on your home loan and the bank repossess the house and you refuse to leave the property that is no longer yours, then you could be removed by force. You still wouldn't be jailed and you are removed because you are squatting at that point.

No, paying taxes is not a contract. I would like to see the contract you signed in where you agree to pay taxes to the local, state or federal governments.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

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#576
Sep 23, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>

No, paying taxes is not a contract. I would like to see the contract you signed in where you agree to pay taxes to the local, state or federal governments.
>
>
That's a silly comment if I ever saw one...

Many "contracts" are implied i.e. You pay for your groceries without signing a contract....

Same applies to the "social contract" .

If you do not agree with the concept of a "social contract" then you also disagree with intellects such as Thomas Hobbes, Jean-Jacques Rousseau , Thomas Hobbes, The Founders and the Biblical Covenant...

Give them a piece of your mind SAM!!!

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Paradise, CA

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#577
Sep 23, 2013
 

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GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>

Many "contracts" are implied i.e. You pay for your groceries without signing a contract....
Of course. You pay for your groceries at a mutually agreed upon price. If you don't like the price of bread at the grocery store you can choose not to purchase it. Not so with taxes.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

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#578
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. You pay for your groceries at a mutually agreed upon price. If you don't like the price of bread at the grocery store you can choose not to purchase it. Not so with taxes.
>
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No, you don't have to purchase the bread,likewise, you can also drop out from society, move into a cabin in the middle of nowhere a la Ted Kazinsky and you won't have to pay any taxes either....

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Paradise, CA

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#579
Sep 24, 2013
 

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GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>
>
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move into a cabin in the middle of nowhere a la Ted Kazinsky and you won't have to pay any taxes either....
How do you figure? Have you ever noticed all the taxes that we have to pay? They are inescapable.
Are you kidding me

Orland, CA

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#580
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure? Have you ever noticed all the taxes that we have to pay? They are inescapable.
WHAT???? You have to pay taxes on everything? LOL
Liberals??????????
The right is wrong

Sacramento, CA

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#581
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
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How do you figure? Have you ever noticed all the taxes that we have to pay? They are inescapable.
Earth to sam, earth to sam! My wife is the tax lady and there are lots of people who make millions and pay ZERO in taxes. Wake up sam, the mith that everyone pays taxes was disproved years ago. The more you make, the lower the percentage you pay in taxes!
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

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#582
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure? Have you ever noticed all the taxes that we have to pay? They are inescapable.
>
>
No, you won't have to pay any taxes if you drop out from society and move into the middle of nowhere, but....

If you want to partake of everything our society has to offer than you have no choice but live up to the social agreement and pay your taxes...
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

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#583
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Are you kidding me wrote:
<quoted text>
WHAT???? You have to pay taxes on everything? LOL
Liberals??????????
.
>
>
Didn't your mommy ever tell you there is no free lunch..?

Conservatives????????
Are you kidding me

Orland, CA

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#584
Sep 24, 2013
 

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GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>.
>
>
Didn't your mommy ever tell you there is no free lunch..?
Conservatives????????
Do you have any idea just how stupid that ignorant statement is???
Stupid liberals??????????
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

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#585
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Are you kidding me wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have any idea just how stupid that ignorant statement is???
Stupid liberals??????????
>
>
It's nowhere as stupid as all your ridiculous conservative diatribes on these threads....
Tea Party Solution

Paradise, CA

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#586
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
How in the world did you read that strong government controls equals more freedom from the study? You have to learn to read if you want to comprehend anything more complex than Mediamatters.
I haven't even used mediamatters in this series of posts-- while you've used the right-wing propaganda mills such as Heritage.

This so-called freedom study lists Canada as 6th most free, and the US as 10th. So, why did you move here from Canada?

Canada's financial regulations kept that country from the extreme suffering caused by our Wall Street firms 5 years ago. Canada's regulations were and are much stronger than ours.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/04/why-cana...

"Note that in Canada, bankers cannot lobby regulators. Unlike the US, their Supreme Court does not think corporations are people. In Canada, money is not speech. There are explicit limitations on Corporate political donations. And where as we have a revolving door between government service and the private sector, the restrictions are much greater in Canada. All of this adds up to a much more intensely regulated banking system than in the America."

Canadians are now richer than Americans. From the Bloomberg News:

"Since the 1990s, Canada has pursued a hardheaded (even ruthless), fiscally conservative form of socialism. Its originator was Paul Martin, who was finance minister for most of the ’90s, and served a stint as prime minister from 2003 to 2006.

Alone among finance ministers in the Group of Eight nations, he “resisted the siren call of deregulation,” in his words, and insisted that the banks tighten their loan-loss and reserve requirements. He also made a courageous decision not to allow Canadian banks to merge, even though their chief executives claimed they would never be globally competitive unless they did.

The stability of Canadian banks and the concomitant stability in the housing market provide the clearest explanation for why Canadians are richer than Americans today."

In case you didn't get the point, I'll sum it up for you: Canada, a much more 'socialist' country than ours, has strong banking regulations that kept them largely free from the US sub-prime debacle. Canada did NOT deregulate these institutions as we did. And they are now richer than us.

So Canada's regulations largely FREED them from the global meltdown. Its citizens were FREED from the corporate meltdown.

Do you see how regulations on the most powerful can FREE the rest of us from calamity?
The right is wrong

Lincoln, CA

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#587
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't even used mediamatters in this series of posts-- while you've used the right-wing propaganda mills such as Heritage.
This so-called freedom study lists Canada as 6th most free, and the US as 10th. So, why did you move here from Canada?
Canada's financial regulations kept that country from the extreme suffering caused by our Wall Street firms 5 years ago. Canada's regulations were and are much stronger than ours.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/04/why-cana...
"Note that in Canada, bankers cannot lobby regulators. Unlike the US, their Supreme Court does not think corporations are people. In Canada, money is not speech. There are explicit limitations on Corporate political donations. And where as we have a revolving door between government service and the private sector, the restrictions are much greater in Canada. All of this adds up to a much more intensely regulated banking system than in the America."
Canadians are now richer than Americans. From the Bloomberg News:
"Since the 1990s, Canada has pursued a hardheaded (even ruthless), fiscally conservative form of socialism. Its originator was Paul Martin, who was finance minister for most of the ’90s, and served a stint as prime minister from 2003 to 2006.
Alone among finance ministers in the Group of Eight nations, he “resisted the siren call of deregulation,” in his words, and insisted that the banks tighten their loan-loss and reserve requirements. He also made a courageous decision not to allow Canadian banks to merge, even though their chief executives claimed they would never be globally competitive unless they did.
The stability of Canadian banks and the concomitant stability in the housing market provide the clearest explanation for why Canadians are richer than Americans today."
In case you didn't get the point, I'll sum it up for you: Canada, a much more 'socialist' country than ours, has strong banking regulations that kept them largely free from the US sub-prime debacle. Canada did NOT deregulate these institutions as we did. And they are now richer than us.
So Canada's regulations largely FREED them from the global meltdown. Its citizens were FREED from the corporate meltdown.
Do you see how regulations on the most powerful can FREE the rest of us from calamity?
Solution, haven't you realized that you're trying to convince someone who either likes being raped by the 1% or is one of the 1%?
Tea Party Solution

Paradise, CA

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#588
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Sam Lowree wrote:
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You are clueless about what kind of health care any of those countries have. Mind you all of them would be far better than what we face with Obamacare, the people that wrote Obamacare are idiots.
Obamacare is not a single-payer system. Obamacare is not like the government plans of Canada and many of the other 'freer' countries. Obamacare keeps the private insurers-- it just makes them have to be more competitive.

Canada, Norway, and Australia all have insurance plans that are much more socialist than ours. All their people are covered, and they're healthier.

Given all the right-wing indignation about Obamacare being the 'government takeover' of our health system, how in the world can countries like Canada and Australia, which have real socialized health insurance, be considered MORE free than us? Maybe providing total government supported coverage keeps more people healthy and alive, and at a lower overall cost. Yes, that would promote freedom. We should have that kind of coverage, and be more free.

From Reuters:
"Canadians live about three years longer and are healthier than Americans, and the lack of universal healthcare in the United States may be a factor...

A healthy 19-year-old Canadian can expect to have 52 more years of perfect health versus 49.3 more years for Americans.
Canadians have a universal healthcare service, which is free at the point of care, whereas Americans' access to health insurance is usually based on employment, income through Medicaid, or age through Medicare, and not universal, according to the study.
If it is any consolation US insurance companies make more money."

Also, about freedom-- shouldn't one of the measurements regarding a country's freedom include the freedom to move up the economic ladder? The US is currently experiencing the highest income disparity since 1929. How easily can we move up this income ladder?

From Sutton Trust & Carnegie Corporation:

"UK and US much less socially mobile than Australia and Canada:
Children from poorer families in Australia and Canada have a much greater chance of doing well at school, getting into university and earning more in later in life than children in the United States and the United Kingdom...

Australia and Canada are around twice as mobile as the UK and US."

So yes, these smart, mature, socialistic/capitalistic countries are rated as more free-- in several ways-- than the US. They have smart regulations to keep the fat cats from destroying their economies; they have universal health care to give people the freedom to live and be healthier, at an overall lower cost; and they have the freedom of much more social mobility.
Tea Party Solution

Paradise, CA

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#589
Sep 24, 2013
 

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The right is wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
Solution, haven't you realized that you're trying to convince someone who either likes being raped by the 1% or is one of the 1%?
Yep, and it's the former. Sam has said that he made 50K last year. Maybe he can make himself feel that he's part of the 1% by rooting for them, and by despising the lower 25%.

It's strange, isn't it?

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