Libs Like Islam That Hates Them, Why?
Tea Party Solution

Los Molinos, CA

#102 May 12, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
Why do you ignore this work TP?
"This paper argues that economic planning under Stalin and Hitler in the 1930s was essentially similar,both in process and outcome.Both economies
had fixed prices and used coercion as part of a
rather chaotic process of resource allocation;consumption in both countries was sacrificed to investment in heavy industry. Both
economies can be thought of as socialist, and socialism in the 1930s was hardly more than military mobilization."
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1...
Yes, I did review this essay. Both Russia and Germany practiced coercion in their economics. Both countries were run by dictators. Dictatorships are at the far right and the far left of the political spectrum-- and all dictatorships share many similarities. Because, they are afterall, DICTATORSHIPS.

Sam and other righties say that they dislike government ("the government IS the problem"), and especially hate Big government. In this world view any country with 'big government' is socialist or communist. It can't be any other way. So, of course fascism cannot be right-wing.

What ARE some examples of right wing dictatorships in your world, Sam? In your world can there even exist such a thing?
Tea Party Solution

Los Molinos, CA

#103 May 12, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Define the difference. Tell me what you think a right wing dictator is and what a left wing dictator is.
In some ways, they're the same-- totalitarianism is totalitarianism.
Which begs the question, was Stalin's Russia truly an example of communism?

From dictionary.com :

com&#8901;mu&#8901;nis m
–noun

1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

fas&#8901;cism
&#8194;–noun
1.(sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

It seems that Stalin's Russia practiced a good deal of Fascism.
Sam Lowree wrote:
<You have to be joking. Socialism is concerned with the growth of government and power. In the early stages, like here, the government shows concern for the workers but as the system progresses the workers are no more than slaves.
You mean like Walmart workers? Which of our political parties wants to eliminate the minimum wage, eliminate worker safety guidelines, and destroy unions?
Tea Party Solution

Los Molinos, CA

#104 May 12, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you are wrong. Again. While the owners of the corporations retained ownership the government told them what to produce, what price to charge and what to pay their workers.
Although Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany were similiar in one way-- they were both totalitarian regimes-- the Nazi's policies and agenda was anti-socialist. From the Encyclopedia Britannica:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/202...

"Unlike left-wing populism, fascist populism did not attribute workers’ hardships to big business and big landowners and did not advocate measures such as progressive taxation, higher pay for industrial and farm workers, protection of unions, and the right to strike. In general it spared the wealth of the upper classes—except that belonging to Jews.

Fascists made no secret of their hatred of Marxists of all stripes, from totalitarian communists to democratic socialists. Fascists promised to deal more “firmly” with Marxists than had earlier, more democratic rightist parties. Mussolini first made his reputation as a fascist by unleashing armed squads of Blackshirts on striking workers and peasants in 1920–21.

The economic programs of the great majority of fascist movements were extremely conservative, favouring the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class. Their talk of national “socialism” was quite fraudulent in this respect. Although some workers were duped by it before the fascists came to power, most remained loyal to the traditional antifascist parties of the left."

Fascism is the opposite of socialism. It pampered the rich and affluent, and subjugated the workers. Fascism favors the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class.

Why do you think some of the rich elite in OUR country plotted to overthrow FDR in a fascist coup?
A Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#105 May 12, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
Although Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany were similiar in one way-- they were both totalitarian regimes-- the Nazi's policies and agenda was anti-socialist. From the Encyclopedia Britannica:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/202...
"Unlike left-wing populism, fascist populism did not attribute workers’ hardships to big business and big landowners and did not advocate measures such as progressive taxation, higher pay for industrial and farm workers, protection of unions, and the right to strike. In general it spared the wealth of the upper classes—except that belonging to Jews.
Fascists made no secret of their hatred of Marxists of all stripes, from totalitarian communists to democratic socialists. Fascists promised to deal more “firmly” with Marxists than had earlier, more democratic rightist parties. Mussolini first made his reputation as a fascist by unleashing armed squads of Blackshirts on striking workers and peasants in 1920–21.
The economic programs of the great majority of fascist movements were extremely conservative, favouring the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class. Their talk of national “socialism” was quite fraudulent in this respect. Although some workers were duped by it before the fascists came to power, most remained loyal to the traditional antifascist parties of the left."
Fascism is the opposite of socialism. It pampered the rich and affluent, and subjugated the workers. Fascism favors the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class.
Why do you think some of the rich elite in OUR country plotted to overthrow FDR in a fascist coup?
You are so correct! Conservatism as practiced by the right in this country is so fascist it's scary.
Tea Party Solution

Los Molinos, CA

#106 May 12, 2013
Dr. Lawrence Britt studied numerous fascist regimes and established 14 characteristics of Fascism.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14ch...

Here are just a few of these warning signs:

"Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights --
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve incarcerations of prisoners, etc."

Waterboarding, Gitmo, come to mind.

" Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc."

Yeah, it's those minorities and liberals causing all our problems.

". Religion and Government are Intertwined --
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions."

I think of Rick Santorum and so many other (often hypocritical) repub leaders.

"Corporate Power is Protected --
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite."

Repubs want to de-regulate Wall Streeters and big corporations even more. Gotta keep those campaign doantions coming in.

"Labor Power is Suppressed --
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed."

That's exactly what repubs are doing.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#107 May 12, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I did review this essay. Both Russia and Germany practiced coercion in their economics. Both countries were run by dictators. Dictatorships are at the far right and the far left of the political spectrum-- and all dictatorships share many similarities. Because, they are afterall, DICTATORSHIPS.
You are funny. You dance all around trying to avoid the obvious. Presented with historical fact after fact and you still try to deny that Hitler was on the Left. Why are you so averse to the fact that Hitler and the National Socialists were on your side of the political spectrum? It is not like he murdered as many people as Stalin or Mao. You should be proud of the restraint that Hitler showed when it comes to murder.
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
Sam and other righties say that they dislike government ("the government IS the problem"), and especially hate Big government. In this world view any country with 'big government' is socialist or communist. It can't be any other way. So, of course fascism cannot be right-wing.
Of course the larger the government the more socialistic the nation becomes. Governments grow to manage the social programs that those on the Left are so enamored of. The NAZIs loved the social programs as well.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#108 May 12, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>

Fascism is the opposite of socialism. It pampered the rich and affluent, and subjugated the workers. Fascism favors the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class.
Why do you think some of the rich elite in OUR country plotted to overthrow FDR in a fascist coup?
Wow, are you really that closed minded? Read something besides your usual leftist sites. Encyclopedia Britannica? Reading that is worse than Wikipedia for an in-depth study on any subject. Most people give up encyclopedias in 7th grade, they are not up to date and there is far too little data to be worth anything.

Read Hitler's Table Talk :
http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres10/HTableTal...

Some of you Lefties have to be the most closed minded, ignorant people that there are. Why don't you at least read some Lefties like Hitchens, or Camille Paglia. They may be on the Left but they are not closed minded and do read more than Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica. I still can't believe you quote those sources. LOL.

"
As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it.(Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions."

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.ht...
Sambo heart hitler

United States

#109 May 13, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, are you really that closed minded? Read something besides your usual leftist sites. Encyclopedia Britannica? Reading that is worse than Wikipedia for an in-depth study on any subject. Most people give up encyclopedias in 7th grade, they are not up to date and there is far too little data to be worth anything.
Read Hitler's Table Talk :
http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres10/HTableTal...
Some of you Lefties have to be the most closed minded, ignorant people that there are. Why don't you at least read some Lefties like Hitchens, or Camille Paglia. They may be on the Left but they are not closed minded and do read more than Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica. I still can't believe you quote those sources. LOL.
"
As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it.(Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions."
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.ht...
Soooo Sambo, You are saying that THE GOVERNMENTS,these regimes, were the Largest Consumer of those economies thus the BIG GOVERNMENTS of these countries drove the ECONOMIC SUCCESS during this period.

Don't ya just HATE BIG GOVERNMENT? Who said that Big Government is the Enemy?
sociopathic Liberals

Orland, CA

#110 May 13, 2013
Sambo heart hitler wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't ya just HATE BIG GOVERNMENT? Who said that Big Government is the Enemy?
The Founders of this nation!!! Duuuhhh!
Sociopathic Dumbo

United States

#111 May 13, 2013
sociopathic Liberals wrote:
<quoted text>
The Founders of this nation!!! Duuuhhh!
Ahahahahahaha, soooo you are saying that AUSTERITY is the way to future prosperity JUST like it was in 1776? OR like in Hitlers and Stalins economies? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid is SOCIOPATH!

Better buy a FARM and join the agrarian society IDIOT! You are missing 237 years of PROGRESS and CHANGE!

Oh and by the way you can NOT have slave or impressed labor to operate your farm. Nor any mechanical, motorized equipement. Horses and ASSES worked in 1776 so that is ALL you can have!

Boy sociopath your GOING BACK or rather TAKING BACK the country sure is UTOPIAN!!!
A Toad Roady

Lincoln, CA

#112 May 13, 2013
Sociopathic Dumbo wrote:
<quoted text>Ahahahahahaha, soooo you are saying that AUSTERITY is the way to future prosperity JUST like it was in 1776? OR like in Hitlers and Stalins economies? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid is SOCIOPATH!
Better buy a FARM and join the agrarian society IDIOT! You are missing 237 years of PROGRESS and CHANGE!
Oh and by the way you can NOT have slave or impressed labor to operate your farm. Nor any mechanical, motorized equipement. Horses and ASSES worked in 1776 so that is ALL you can have!
Boy sociopath your GOING BACK or rather TAKING BACK the country sure is UTOPIAN!!!
Butt he can have all the subservient women he wants to work his farm. He can have multiple wives and mistreat them all. And the more kids he fathers, the more child labor he gets. And since his “farm” is its own little sovereign nation, the only law is whatever he says.

Isn't that what repubicans all believe?
sociopathic Liberals

Orland, CA

#113 May 13, 2013
Sociopathic Dumbo wrote:
<quoted text>Ahahahahahaha, soooo you are saying that AUSTERITY is the way to future prosperity JUST like it was in 1776? OR like in Hitlers and Stalins economies? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid is SOCIOPATH!
Better buy a FARM and join the agrarian society IDIOT! You are missing 237 years of PROGRESS and CHANGE!
Oh and by the way you can NOT have slave or impressed labor to operate your farm. Nor any mechanical, motorized equipement. Horses and ASSES worked in 1776 so that is ALL you can have!
Boy sociopath your GOING BACK or rather TAKING BACK the country sure is UTOPIAN!!!
That was really stupid!
Progress? It is the furthest thing from a large and over bearing Govt.
And do you know the real reason the founders created the second amendment?
==========

Progressive:
Socialist. It was once widely believed that progress was that which improved our productivity potential, opportunity and standard of living. In Left-Speak it means a return to the statist/totalitarian/collectiv ist systems under which people have suffered for thousands of years. Like many of the terms they use, the Left has turned this one around exactly 180 degrees.
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

#114 May 13, 2013
Sociopathic Dumbo wrote:
<quoted text>Ahahahahahaha, soooo you are saying that AUSTERITY is the way to future prosperity JUST like it was in 1776? OR like in Hitlers and Stalins economies? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid is SOCIOPATH!
Better buy a FARM and join the agrarian society IDIOT! You are missing 237 years of PROGRESS and CHANGE!
Oh and by the way you can NOT have slave or impressed labor to operate your farm. Nor any mechanical, motorized equipement. Horses and ASSES worked in 1776 so that is ALL you can have!
Boy sociopath your GOING BACK or rather TAKING BACK the country sure is UTOPIAN!!!
>
>
The moron is to ignorant to understand that the US government was responsible for the building of our railroads, freeways and dams, without which we would be just another "third world country..."

And we won't even mention who was behind the development of the computer and the internet...
Tea Party Solution

United States

#115 May 13, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course the larger the government the more socialistic the nation becomes. Governments grow to manage the social programs that those on the Left are so enamored of.
And THAT, folks, is the summary of Sam's viewpoint.

If a government is big, then in Sam's simplistic world it HAS to be socialist... or communist.

So Hitler's fascist Germany HAS to be socialist. End of story. End of discussion.

Sam couldn't come up with one example of a far-right, big government regime. They don't exist in his world.

On the other hand, I can easily point out big governments that are socialistic (and democratic-capitalistic): Sweden, Canada, Norway, Denmark. But they're NOT fascistic, nor are they communist dictatorships. How can that be?
Tea Party Solution

United States

#116 May 13, 2013
Sam Lowree wrote:
Wow, are you really that closed minded? Read something besides your usual leftist sites. Encyclopedia Britannica?


I knew that you'd try to paint the Encyclopedia Britannica as a left-wing source. Actually, it gave a good, detailed overview of European fascism. Did you read it?
Sam Lowree wrote:
And instead of providing a factual overview of fascist Germany you give me these hundreds of pages of Hitler's table talk. Did you read any of it?

I reviewed it briefly, and there was plenty of talk against marxism, against socialism, and against labor unions.
Sam Lowree wrote:
<Some of you Lefties have to be the most closed minded, ignorant people that there are. Why don't you at least read some Lefties like Hitchens, or Camille Paglia. They may be on the Left but they are not closed minded and do read more than Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica. I still can't believe you quote those sources. LOL./QUOTE]

I quoted a lot more sources than Britannica, but you will call any source that is factual a 'left wing' source. Dispute the content, if you can.

[QUOTE who="Sam Lowree"]<As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.ht...
No, Fascism is totalitarianism with a capitalist veneer. But you and your rightie revisionists want to paint any kind of government control as socialistic, even fascism.
sociopathic Liberals

Orland, CA

#117 May 13, 2013
GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>
>
>
The moron is to ignorant to understand that the US government was responsible for the building of our railroads, freeways and dams, without which we would be just another "third world country..."
And we won't even mention who was behind the development of the computer and the internet...
And you are so incredibly stupid to understand that I have NO PROBLEM with my taxes paying for these things! You DUMBPHUQ!!!

It is things like this that I do not want the Govt. stealing close to 50% of my EARNED monies for...

Insane Government Waste and Use of Taxpayer Money.

The NRCC is out with its new "waste list" which totals more than $18 billion. So what exactly is the government spending your money on? How about:

-$1 million on a fruit fly sexual attractiveness study

-$1.3 million for old fashioned x-rays of prisoners. x-rays of prisoners

-$1.5 million on designing a video game controller

-$100,000 on taxpayer funded comedy group tour in India

-$547,430 on a dancing robot that connects to an iPhone

-$25,000 funding a course about "How to be happy"

-$145,000 on a sculpture garden

-$25,000 on an Alabama Watermelon Queen tour

-$697,177 on a climate change musical

-$10,000 on talking urinal cakes (just in case the boys need some company or to prevent drunk driving)

-$35 million on an old fashioned trolly car

-$150,000 for a toy exhibit

-$320,000 for robot squirrels

-$1.4 billion in improper food stamps purchases which included alcohol, condoms, junk food and diapers

You can read the entire list here.

We can pay to study the sexual attractiveness of fruit flies and robot squirrels but by all means please, lets cut the working hours for Border Patrol to save some money.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...

"Butt" you are sooooo phuqing stupid that you believe that Govt. only spends my money on only roads, police and fire!

You nicoliar... YOU are the insanely ignorant one here!!!
GRANDPA NICOLAI

Chico, CA

#118 May 13, 2013
sociopathic Liberals wrote:
<quoted text>
And you are so incredibly stupid to understand that I have NO PROBLEM with my taxes paying for these things! You DUMBPHUQ!!!
It is things like this that I do not want the Govt. stealing close to 50% of my EARNED monies for...
Insane Government Waste and Use of Taxpayer Money.
The NRCC is out with its new "waste list" which totals more than $18 billion. So what exactly is the government spending your money on? How about:
-$1 million on a fruit fly sexual attractiveness study
-$1.3 million for old fashioned x-rays of prisoners. x-rays of prisoners
-$1.5 million on designing a video game controller
-$100,000 on taxpayer funded comedy group tour in India
-$547,430 on a dancing robot that connects to an iPhone
-$25,000 funding a course about "How to be happy"
-$145,000 on a sculpture garden
-$25,000 on an Alabama Watermelon Queen tour
-$697,177 on a climate change musical
-$10,000 on talking urinal cakes (just in case the boys need some company or to prevent drunk driving)
-$35 million on an old fashioned trolly car
-$150,000 for a toy exhibit
-$320,000 for robot squirrels
-$1.4 billion in improper food stamps purchases which included alcohol, condoms, junk food and diapers
You can read the entire list here.
We can pay to study the sexual attractiveness of fruit flies and robot squirrels but by all means please, lets cut the working hours for Border Patrol to save some money.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
"Butt" you are sooooo phuqing stupid that you believe that Govt. only spends my money on only roads, police and fire!
You nicoliar... YOU are the insanely ignorant one here!!!
>
>
First off, it does not surprise me that you are not bright enough to see any value coming out of the money invested in the research list you posted...

Why, the fruit fly alone is responsible for millions of dollars worth of agricultural damage and discovering a way to stop or minimize it's sexual reproductions will pay for the study a thousandfold...

Second, if you stop and figure it out, you will find out that your share of the taxes going towards the research on your list is probably under a nickel....

Leave your address and I will mail you a nickel...
The Infantile left Winged

Paradise, CA

#119 May 13, 2013
GRANDPA NICOLAI wrote:
<quoted text>
>
>
First off, it does not surprise me that you are not bright enough to see any value coming out of the money invested in the research list you posted...
ROTFLMAO at you, you are so incredibly stupid it truly is incredible!!!

Hey nicoliar... pull you head out of this corrupt governments ass, and try to see some light!!! Still ROTFLMAO at you, you complete moron!!!

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#120 May 13, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
And THAT, folks, is the summary of Sam's viewpoint.
If a government is big, then in Sam's simplistic world it HAS to be socialist... or communist.
So Hitler's fascist Germany HAS to be socialist. End of story. End of discussion.
Sam couldn't come up with one example of a far-right, big government regime. They don't exist in his world.
On the other hand, I can easily point out big governments that are socialistic (and democratic-capitalistic): Sweden, Canada, Norway, Denmark. But they're NOT fascistic, nor are they communist dictatorships. How can that be?
Think a little bit TP. I said that as government increases it has to become more socialist or tyrannical. How can you expect to keep control if you don’t become more tyrannical? The more laws you have the more control must be exerted to maintain those laws and regs. Tyranny does not happen over night. We are less free now than we were 10 years ago.

Hitler’s Germany was socialist by design and by deed. I presented the historical data to you. If you prefer an encyclopedia’s definition rather than Hitler’s words, NAZI party doctrine and the word of numerous economists and historians then so be it. It is a free country, well kind of, you can remain ignorant if you choose.

“Government IS the problem.”

Since: Jan 08

Chico, CA

#121 May 13, 2013
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
I knew that you'd try to paint the Encyclopedia Britannica as a left-wing source. Actually, it gave a good, detailed overview of European fascism. Did you read it?.
I did read. I just find it amusing that instead of reading some actual historical information you go to an encyclopedia. No one who is interested in any topic any degree beyond a surface view would use an encyclopedia.
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
And instead of providing a factual overview of fascist Germany you give me these hundreds of pages of Hitler's table talk. Did you read any of it?
I reviewed it briefly, and there was plenty of talk against marxism, against socialism, and against labor unions.
I listed other sources for you to peruse. I have read Hitler’s words, you should have delved a little deeper into the text.
Tea Party Solution wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Fascism is totalitarianism with a capitalist veneer. But you and your rightie revisionists want to paint any kind of government control as socialistic, even fascism.
Fascism is socialist. Study. No one can help you if you choose to remain ignorant.

“People's ignorance really pisses me off. Stupidity is when you can't help it -ignorance is when you choose not to understand something.”
Sarah McLachlan

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