Govt shutdown / debt ceiling crisis

Govt shutdown / debt ceiling crisis

Posted in the Richmond Forum

Question

Paducah, KY

#1 Oct 7, 2013
Has the partial government shutdown affected anything in the Richmond area?

What do you think will happen if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling and the Treasury runs out of money to pay all the government's bills on Oct. 17?
geico

Winchester, KY

#2 Oct 7, 2013
Question wrote:
Has the partial government shutdown affected anything in the Richmond area?

What do you think will happen if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling and the Treasury runs out of money to pay all the government's bills on Oct. 17?
It has affected Richmond. Although the depot employees are working, they won't get paid until a budget is passed. Hence, these employees are pinching pennies. So yes. And how far it will reach won't be determined until it's over. Debt ceiling has nothing to do with the issue. It's all about the AHA.
Supporter

United States

#3 Oct 7, 2013
geico wrote:
<quoted text>
It has affected Richmond. Although the depot employees are working, they won't get paid until a budget is passed. Hence, these employees are pinching pennies. So yes. And how far it will reach won't be determined until it's over. Debt ceiling has nothing to do with the issue. It's all about the AHA.
Not entirely true. Employees won't work for free. Depot employees are going to get paid this week because the pay system is a pay period behind and it was processed before the shutdown. They will also get paid next pay day. Not sure about after that. But if it is no money to pay them, they will get sent home....
I like Ike

Paducah, KY

#4 Oct 7, 2013
geico wrote:
<quoted text>
It has affected Richmond. Although the depot employees are working, they won't get paid until a budget is passed. Hence, these employees are pinching pennies. So yes. And how far it will reach won't be determined until it's over. Debt ceiling has nothing to do with the issue. It's all about the AHA.
Why do you think the debt ceiling has nothing to do with it? Boehner and Ted Cruz are both saying that they are going to carry the battle over into the debt ceiling.

I personally think that the AHA is just the easily identifiable rallying point in a bigger fight. Bottom line: The Tea Party and its super wealth paleo-libertarian backers are committed to 3 things:

1. The rich paying less taxes. They probably would not object if the lower 80 percent of Americans paid more. For an example, look at Kansas's state income tax overhaul. The richest pay less, the middle pays about the same or slightly more, lower income people pay more.

2. Cut spending that benefits the great mass of the people, things like eduction, infrastructure, Medicare/Medicaid, even Social Security. For an example of the Tea Party's agenda read the Texas Republicans 2012 platform. It actually calls for gradually abolishing Social Security. It also calls for substantially raising the retirement age (in Tea Party newspeak).

3. The paleo-libertarians ultimate goal is to restructure the American economy-society into something that resembles either the USA in the "Robber Baron" era of the 1880-1900 timeframe (or maybe an updated version of the peonage system that existed in Diaz's Mexico at the same time).
yes

Flatwoods, KY

#5 Oct 7, 2013
Someone has to reel in the tax and spend liberals. At their present pace they will destroy our economy and if we are lucky force us into a pure socialist society. More than likely into financial ruin civil war and the end of the United States as we know it. I would much better do without some government programs now than lose everything later. People need to start looking at what is better for the country as a whole than for themselves but most are greedy and only worry about themselves getting something for free. Wait until you have to work for no paycheck only getting vouchers for government housing because there is no private property and you can't have a steak when you want one because it would take too many points off your monthly food card for a family your size. again thats if we are lucky and dont fall into total chaos, but it must be a small price to pay for having healthcare now and a free cellphone.
Amazed

Richmond, KY

#6 Oct 7, 2013
yes wrote:
Someone has to reel in the tax and spend liberals. At their present pace they will destroy our economy and if we are lucky force us into a pure socialist society. More than likely into financial ruin civil war and the end of the United States as we know it. I would much better do without some government programs now than lose everything later. People need to start looking at what is better for the country as a whole than for themselves but most are greedy and only worry about themselves getting something for free. Wait until you have to work for no paycheck only getting vouchers for government housing because there is no private property and you can't have a steak when you want one because it would take too many points off your monthly food card for a family your size. again thats if we are lucky and dont fall into total chaos, but it must be a small price to pay for having healthcare now and a free cellphone.
So public health care now means that in the near future we'll lose all private property, all money, and live off goverment issued food cards for all. Exactly what kind of mental gymnastics does one have to engage in to reach that conclusion? Is that the same mental procedure as saying that gay marriage will result in men marrying pets and children being sold as sex slaves?

Do you people have any independent cognitive reasoning or is it just all you can do to rely on hyperbole and parrot it out?
who cares

Winchester, KY

#7 Oct 7, 2013
Amazed wrote:
<quoted text>So public health care now means that in the near future we'll lose all private property, all money, and live off goverment issued food cards for all. Exactly what kind of mental gymnastics does one have to engage in to reach that conclusion? Is that the same mental procedure as saying that gay marriage will result in men marrying pets and children being sold as sex slaves?

Do you people have any independent cognitive reasoning or is it just all you can do to rely on hyperbole and parrot it out?
Obama's is to equal the playing field. Those who work need to pay more taxes for us lazy people who refuse. Gotta love my free health care coming soon... Please keep working, I need a new SUV soon.
Cavalry

Paducah, KY

#9 Oct 7, 2013
Good story about the shutdown's impact on military installations and the towns near them:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-shutdown-...

Please note 2 things:

1. Even though workers are going back to work, the bases will not be able to purchase most routine supplies for such things an repair work.

2. If the Congress does not pass an increase in the debt ceiling before Oct. 17 and the Treasury runs out of money, the military will be in a real crunch. Also think about this: If you are a local businessman and sell supplies to the military, you are not paid cash on the barrel head. You are paid later. Now, if the military buys something from you on credit on Oct. 16, Congress lets the Treasury run out of cash on Oct. 17, you probably will not get paid for what you sold the military - at least not on time. But, your wholesaler/supplier will still demand payment from you.
OXO

Murphy, NC

#10 Oct 8, 2013
No one is going to run out of money. It just means they can no longer spend more than they take in. A balanced budget so to speak.
Cavalry

Paducah, KY

#11 Oct 8, 2013
OXO wrote:
No one is going to run out of money. It just means they can no longer spend more than they take in. A balanced budget so to speak.
Yes, the U.S. Treasury can and will run out of money to pay routine bills on Oct. 17. Even Social Security and active duty military pay could fall short. The 14th Amendment requires the U.S. Treasury to pay the national debt first (meaning principal and interest on Treasury bonds), and then veterans pensions (possibly and possibly not since the language refers specifically to pensions resulting from the Civil War). No other payments are Constitutionally guaranteed or required.

Here is the big problem: An interest payment is due on Treasury bonds on Nov. 15. According to the 14th Amendment, that interest payment MUST be paid. Trouble is, the funds coming into the Treasury may not be enough to pay it. Even it the revenue is great enough to make the interest payment, there will not be much if any money for ANYTHING else. So the Treasury has the options of violating the Constitutional mandate and not make the interest payment (which is default on the national debt)or not pay anything else. That will trigger a global financial crisis tht will bring about a repeat of the Great Depression, and probably worse.

First, holders of U.S. Treasury bonds, the instruments of our national debt and a key part of global finance, will start dumping them on the market for anything that they can get. It is likely that they will even "break the buck", that is to say that they will start selling bonds for less than face value - say 95 cents on the dollar or even lower. That will do three things. First, it will make the U.S. dollar worth less in international trade. Things that we buy overseas, like the big one, OIL, will cost more. That will mean that gas prices in the U.S. go up. Second, higher fuel prices will drive up all other prices in the U.S., including food. Third, it could cause the world to abandon the U.S. dollar as the standard currency of international trade and adopt another, probably the Euro. That has happened once before. For all of the 1800s the British pound sterling was the internatinal currency. Britain went bankrupt in World War II and the world shifted to the U.S. dollar.

Also, the kind of budget cuts that will be necessary in a "cash basis pay-as-you-get-the-revenue " sitution would be catastrophic for the great majority of Americans. We would be in a situation like that in Greece. For an idea of what that is like, just Google "Greece" and some words like "Austerity" "Unemployment" "Schools" "Universities"
RODEN

Richmond, KY

#12 Oct 8, 2013
I drove thru the Red River Gorge on Tuesday. Signs at the entrance to NADA Tunnel stating that there was to be NO CAMPING in the Gorge due to the Government Shutdown. Stopped at the Wildie area and both gates were locked and similar signs were taped to the locked gates. There are still a lot of privately owned properties in the Gorge and they appeared to be open for business.
Not sure yet what is going on at Lakes' Cumberland, Dale Hollow or Laurel Lake since they are "Owned" by the Army Corps of Engineers. All the Marinas are floating out in the lake but the access to them is from U.S. Army Corps land. Might want to check on those marinas that I am familiar with. Tie to drive around and check out the Fall Colors as the leaves are changing. Maybe the changing of the leaves will mean we can have a CHANGE in DC and get rid of a bunch of clowns.
Supporter

Clay City, KY

#13 Oct 9, 2013
RODEN wrote:
I drove thru the Red River Gorge on Tuesday. Signs at the entrance to NADA Tunnel stating that there was to be NO CAMPING in the Gorge due to the Government Shutdown. Stopped at the Wildie area and both gates were locked and similar signs were taped to the locked gates. There are still a lot of privately owned properties in the Gorge and they appeared to be open for business.
Not sure yet what is going on at Lakes' Cumberland, Dale Hollow or Laurel Lake since they are "Owned" by the Army Corps of Engineers. All the Marinas are floating out in the lake but the access to them is from U.S. Army Corps land. Might want to check on those marinas that I am familiar with. Tie to drive around and check out the Fall Colors as the leaves are changing. Maybe the changing of the leaves will mean we can have a CHANGE in DC and get rid of a bunch of clowns.
The marinas are probably closed as well since the Corps of Engineers is government also and some of them are furloughed. Would hate to waste gas to drive there just to turn back around..,,
RODEN

Richmond, KY

#15 Oct 10, 2013
I called my brother who has a boat at Barren River Lake and he told me that it was business-as-usual at the marina where he keeps his boat. I seriously believe that the Nimrods in DC are afraid of us Rednecks who carry guns and what might happen if they pushed it too far. The 90 year old WWII Veterans are not apt to be carrying the weapons that they carried in WWII so the wimps in the Park Service don't have too much to fear. I think if they push it far enough, there will be a bunch of dead Park Rangers.

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