Yes, Liberals, We Should Sue That Anti-Gay Florist

Apr 12, 2013 | Posted by: Rick in Kansas | Full story: slog.thestranger.com

I was prepared for religious conservatives to start thrashing back when Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson filed a consumer protection lawsuit Tuesday against a florist who refused to sell a gay couple flowers for their wedding.

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hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

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#1
Apr 12, 2013
 

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For this magnificent piece, I thank Mr. Holden. This is why I quit, and why I stopped bothering: I realized one day that I was battling *the pro-gay* as much as the antigay, and I said, "I'm done with this."

I don't understand the apologist attitude, either. How indoctrinated with abuse must someone be to start getting used to being called a defective, subhuman piece of filth who's chosen their orientation? The antigay say this endlessly; it should be prompting *endless* outrage, as vociferous each time as the last. Don't sweat the small stuff, indeed: Some of GLAAD's demands for apologies send me howling with laughter; the focus should be on the *real* enemies, the organizations who are working from dawn to dusk to attempt to destroy others' lives.

The *most* immaterial thing in the world is that they will crow that their predictions came true: Open your eyes. I have said this a hundred times, and I'll never budge: THAT'S HOW THEY TRAP YOU. They are using that to silence you, corner you, force you to bow down from what should, in fact, be a merciless onslaught. They successfully trip you up and infect you with fear, and -- voila!-- you begin fighting *with your colleagues* rather than your enemies. Open your eyes.

If they had a shred of reason, I'd advocate a more reasonable approach. They do not, and I will not. You are human beings with dignity, you have every right to enjoy the same rights as everyone else, and you should be battling them with the same endless, endless zeal and determination which they show daily; they can *never* let this go and neither should you. You should be forcing them to realize that this will end when they stand down, and not a moment before -- whether it should drag on for one week, or for eternity.

They are the reason the supreme court is too afraid to declare a nationwide right to marriage.

They are the reason gay teens live miserably and kill themselves.

They are the reason you have had to spend millions to defend the most obvious, obvious rights any second-grader could tell you are yours.

If you think the state should not be making an example of this jaw-droppingly self-involved and mendacious florist, then you and I have nothing to discuss. I don't have the time to *blink* in regard to any such reply.
Quentin April 6 1910

Justice, IL

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#2
Apr 12, 2013
 

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You are gayer than the gayest gay.

Since: Jan 12

Port Richey, FL

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#3
Apr 12, 2013
 

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hi hi wrote:
For this magnificent piece, I thank Mr. Holden. This is why I quit, and why I stopped bothering: I realized one day that I was battling *the pro-gay* as much as the antigay, and I said, "I'm done with this."
I don't understand the apologist attitude, either. How indoctrinated with abuse must someone be to start getting used to being called a defective, subhuman piece of filth who's chosen their orientation? The antigay say this endlessly; it should be prompting *endless* outrage, as vociferous each time as the last. Don't sweat the small stuff, indeed: Some of GLAAD's demands for apologies send me howling with laughter; the focus should be on the *real* enemies, the organizations who are working from dawn to dusk to attempt to destroy others' lives.
The *most* immaterial thing in the world is that they will crow that their predictions came true: Open your eyes. I have said this a hundred times, and I'll never budge: THAT'S HOW THEY TRAP YOU. They are using that to silence you, corner you, force you to bow down from what should, in fact, be a merciless onslaught. They successfully trip you up and infect you with fear, and -- voila!-- you begin fighting *with your colleagues* rather than your enemies. Open your eyes.
If they had a shred of reason, I'd advocate a more reasonable approach. They do not, and I will not. You are human beings with dignity, you have every right to enjoy the same rights as everyone else, and you should be battling them with the same endless, endless zeal and determination which they show daily; they can *never* let this go and neither should you. You should be forcing them to realize that this will end when they stand down, and not a moment before -- whether it should drag on for one week, or for eternity.
They are the reason the supreme court is too afraid to declare a nationwide right to marriage.
They are the reason gay teens live miserably and kill themselves.
They are the reason you have had to spend millions to defend the most obvious, obvious rights any second-grader could tell you are yours.
If you think the state should not be making an example of this jaw-droppingly self-involved and mendacious florist, then you and I have nothing to discuss. I don't have the time to *blink* in regard to any such reply.
good to see you "hi hi" its been a while there's nothing to add you said it and said it well
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

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#5
Apr 12, 2013
 

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"Anti-gay florist."

That doesn't make any sense.
Chance

Grove City, PA

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#7
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Oh, get over yourselves. You think you are the only ones that don't get exactly what they want when it comes to weddings? People involved with weddings tend to be careful what they participate in. I've heard of pastors declining to marry straight couples, churches saying that they don't want a wedding held at their church (straight wedding). Asking someone to be involved in a wedding means that they agree that the wedding should take place, that it is the right thing to do. Have you ever heard of straight couple suing someone for saying no? Of course not. They just find the right church or the right pastor or the right business to provide their wedding services. They don't get all sensitive and offended and then try to FORCE someone to participate. That is childish, non-productive, and damages both the person being sued and the person doing the suing. In this case, it is going to hurt all gay people for some gay people to behave this way. So, I guess I should say, sue your hearts out. Ultimately, it will backlash on all of you.
AzAdam

Scottsdale, AZ

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#8
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
Oh, get over yourselves. You think you are the only ones that don't get exactly what they want when it comes to weddings? People involved with weddings tend to be careful what they participate in. I've heard of pastors declining to marry straight couples, churches saying that they don't want a wedding held at their church (straight wedding). Asking someone to be involved in a wedding means that they agree that the wedding should take place, that it is the right thing to do. Have you ever heard of straight couple suing someone for saying no? Of course not. They just find the right church or the right pastor or the right business to provide their wedding services. They don't get all sensitive and offended and then try to FORCE someone to participate. That is childish, non-productive, and damages both the person being sued and the person doing the suing. In this case, it is going to hurt all gay people for some gay people to behave this way. So, I guess I should say, sue your hearts out. Ultimately, it will backlash on all of you.
Do you really not understand the difference between a pastor officiating a wedding and a florist providing flowers or a baker making a cake?

Only the pastor is sanctioning the wedding. Providing flowered or baking a cake is not a religious act. It's not a protected act. It's secular.
Chance

Grove City, PA

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#9
Apr 12, 2013
 

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AzAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really not understand the difference between a pastor officiating a wedding and a florist providing flowers or a baker making a cake?
Only the pastor is sanctioning the wedding. Providing flowered or baking a cake is not a religious act. It's not a protected act. It's secular.
Do you really not understand the difference between selling a gay person flowers and providing flowers for a wedding? Providing cake or flowers is participating. It would be no different than if a gay person were asked to provide the food for a National Organization for Marriage meeting or if a gay printer was asked to print the flyers for an anti-gay marriage meeting. If those gay people declined the business, it would be understandable. I can't imagine gay marriage opponents taking them to court over it. That would be ludicrous. Gays have it in their minds that they are going to FORCE every single person into not only accepting gay marriage, but also support it. Dream on. It is not going to happen.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

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#10
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
Oh, get over yourselves.
Dear, the ones who need to get over themselves are these self-professed good Christian business owners who imagine that since God approves of their bigotry, the state should approve of that bigotry becoming discrimination. It doesn't work that way and hasn't ever since the government has worked to achieve equal access in public. Your grievance with that coming to an end in regards to your bigotry against the gay folk, just as it has in regards to any other God blessed bigotry based on sex, race, religion etc you might have, well, sometimes folk have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing for others. The right thing isn't for a business owner to discriminate against potential customer simply because you say God approves of your bigotry against them.

By the by, places of worship and their clergy have always had the right to dispense their rites according to their choice of beliefs. Maybe you have heard of the concept known as the separation of church and state? Business owners are not operating a place of worship and not offering the rites of their faith. Business owners have a right to their beliefs but since your customer has not come to a place of worship and not asking for the rites of your faith, they get the right to not have your bigotry be a reason to be a pr*ck to them. Sorry.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

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#11
Apr 12, 2013
 
Chance wrote:
Do you really not understand the difference between selling a gay person flowers and providing flowers for a wedding? Providing cake or flowers is participating. It would be no different than if a gay person were asked to provide the food for a National Organization for Marriage meeting or if a gay printer was asked to print the flyers for an anti-gay marriage meeting. If those gay people declined the business, it would be understandable. I can't imagine gay marriage opponents taking them to court over it. That would be ludicrous. Gays have it in their minds that they are going to FORCE every single person into not only accepting gay marriage, but also support it. Dream on. It is not going to happen.
Sweetie, what gets me is that you can't seem to understand the difference between denying your services because someone is gay and you morally disapprove of them because of that and denying your services to an organization you morally disapprove of because its politics. Unless you are telling them its because they are straight or Christian, you can give them the bum's rush legally. Here's a helpful hint from a former business owner, the best way to act on nothing more than your choice of bigotries, is by keeping that fact to yourself. I was a landlord for 25 years, never once got sued for violating anyone's rights.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

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#12
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really not understand the difference between selling a gay person flowers and providing flowers for a wedding? Providing cake or flowers is participating. It would be no different than if a gay person were asked to provide the food for a National Organization for Marriage meeting or if a gay printer was asked to print the flyers for an anti-gay marriage meeting. If those gay people declined the business, it would be understandable. I can't imagine gay marriage opponents taking them to court over it. That would be ludicrous. Gays have it in their minds that they are going to FORCE every single person into not only accepting gay marriage, but also support it. Dream on. It is not going to happen.
Seriously? If I owned a business I would move heaven and earth to keep my DOORS OPEN, by selling my product.
If I DID own a business and a bunch of fundies showed up for service, they would scream bloody murder if I turned them away.
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup

Philadelphia, PA

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#13
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
You think you are the only ones that don't get exactly what they want when it comes to weddings?
STFU, you repulsive, talibangelical trash.

We'll see how you christianists squeal the moment some business refuses to serve a customer because that customer is a christianist.
Chance

Grove City, PA

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#15
Apr 13, 2013
 

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For all of you - watch the gays go down in history as the entity that destroyed the First Amendment and then the whole idea of America. And when Christianity is driven underground (can you say "tax free, anyone), and the Muslims become much more prominent (their goal for American, FYI), then we'll see where that leaves the country in general and the gays in particular.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

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#16
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
For all of you - watch the gays go down in history as the entity that destroyed the First Amendment and then the whole idea of America. And when Christianity is driven underground (can you say "tax free, anyone), and the Muslims become much more prominent (their goal for American, FYI), then we'll see where that leaves the country in general and the gays in particular.
Wow, Chicken Little, any pieces of the falling sky hit you yet?
Juan

Campos, Brazil

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#17
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
Oh, get over yourselves. You think you are the only ones that don't get exactly what they want when it comes to weddings? People involved with weddings tend to be careful what they participate in. I've heard of pastors declining to marry straight couples, churches saying that they don't want a wedding held at their church (straight wedding). Asking someone to be involved in a wedding means that they agree that the wedding should take place, that it is the right thing to do. Have you ever heard of straight couple suing someone for saying no? Of course not. They just find the right church or the right pastor or the right business to provide their wedding services. They don't get all sensitive and offended and then try to FORCE someone to participate. That is childish, non-productive, and damages both the person being sued and the person doing the suing. In this case, it is going to hurt all gay people for some gay people to behave this way. So, I guess I should say, sue your hearts out. Ultimately, it will backlash on all of you.
Well said and 100% spot on!

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

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Apr 13, 2013
 

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Juan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said and 100% spot on!
A lazy liar's response and a 100% false name, as usual.

Your lies fool NO one. You are the only one who says "spot on" after every one else's posts..you being too dumb to think up anything yourself. I guess all the energy of making up fake names is just too much trouble for you.
Chance

Grove City, PA

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Apr 13, 2013
 

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Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, Chicken Little, any pieces of the falling sky hit you yet?
Yes. I definitely experience first-hand the disintegration of our country. So do you, if you would get your mind off your sexuality enough to pay attention. This country is going down. Freedoms are being eroded daily. My freedoms and yours. But I guess if you get "gay marriage" you'll be ok with the loss of everything else.
Ralph

Bloomingdale, IN

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#20
Apr 13, 2013
 
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup wrote:
<quoted text>
STFU, you repulsive, talibangelical trash.
We'll see how you christianists squeal the moment some business refuses to serve a customer because that customer is a christianist.
Don't ask, don't tell.
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup

Philadelphia, PA

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#21
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
For all of you - watch the gays go down in history as the entity that destroyed the First Amendment....
You half wit bigot, it's the First Amendment that prevents the theocracy you freaks seek to enact.

Businesses are not houses of worship of hate. Place of public accommodation may not discriminate on the basis of race, ethnicity,_religion_, gender, and other categories, and you mullahs never really complained about that.(Well, the John Bircher and KKK type of christian fundies did.)

It's only when protections are increasing on the basis of sexual orientation that you start with the fatwa issuing.

As I said, it would be great to see how christianists react when business start turning away fundie customers. Praiz!

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

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#22
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Chance wrote:
For all of you - watch the gays go down in history as the entity that destroyed the First Amendment and then the whole idea of America.
I'm actually a big fan of the 1st Amendment, I even support it for those I morally disagree with. You and this self-professed, good Christian business owner have every right to believe that God approves of your bigotry, you even enjoy the right to tell folk that you are in fact such a bigot, but what the state RIGHTFULLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITS is your right to be dicks because of your choice of bigotries. The law says that you the business owner may not discriminate, REGARDLESS OF YOUR RELIGIOUS OR OTHER DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS TO THE CONTRARY against folk on any number of suspect basis, including your choice to be a Christian. It's render unto Caesar time here. Everybody else is required to play along, why do you imagine that your choice of bigotries be given a pass? Simply because YOU say God approves? If she as a florist, had told folk that she only did gay weddings, straight folk need to do that someplace else, she would be just as sued then too. Welcome to equality.
Chance wrote:
And when Christianity is driven underground (can you say "tax free, anyone), and the Muslims become much more prominent (their goal for American, FYI), then we'll see where that leaves the country in general and the gays in particular.
You and the self-professed good Christian business owner really don't get it. Everybody has the right to their bigotries but that doesn't give ANY of us the right to act out on them in an uncivil manner and showing someone the door because they are gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, White, Black, male, female, can be seen by those being shown that door as downright uncivil and quite often, the laws that we all agree to live by by being here agree with that, regardless of the laws you chose to live by has to say. Your Christian beliefs are not our problem, nor should they be made to be our problem by you in civic life. We don't want to drive Christianity underground, just put in its proper place, in individual's lives, in their homes and their places of worship. Any group claiming to be religious in nature for tax exemption purposes should have their books open to the public which is taking up the slack for them. Moneys raised and spent on charitable purposes should remain tax exempt, money raised and spent on less than charitable purposes, that's another question. By the way, Christians like you, an advertisement for anything but. If Islam really has any sort of chance of catching on among non-Muslims it will because Christians like you make your faith seem like such a really bad idea.
heard that

Alexandria, VA

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#23
Apr 13, 2013
 

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hi hi wrote:
Just want to say, I'm a racist Nigger Faggot.
I agree 100%

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