Are electric vehicles eco-friendly?

Apr 6, 2013 Full story: Reno Gazette-Journal 15

After a Reno Gazette-Journal story about local businesses that go above and beyond in their efforts to be green, Marian Stroh of Reno wrote in with three questions that "are not so far answered": Fluorescent bulbs - or CFLs, which stands for compact fluorescent lights - can be recycled at Home Depot.

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LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#1 Apr 7, 2013
He proposes the first two questions and then shows how ridiculously easy it is to answer them. A clear case of some cntrived 'strawmen'.

Now, with those props out of the way, we go to his main claim.

"And why people donít understand that electric cars arenít as green as claimed?"

This is equally easy to answer (another strawman). For example,

http://tinyurl.com/cg6ltv4 gives a very quantitative value for mileage for gasoline, ethanol, and electric vehicles. The clear winner is electric vehicles even considering the electricity as produced by coal (in stationary plants where it is much easier to deal with emissions and efficiency).

One example of progress on this front is the new VW concept car with 313 mpg estimated (using mostly the electric range for short trips per EU testing).

The corresponding gas range (EPA) would only be about 60 mpg.

So the article quotes clear evidence from industry experts that even in the most polluting environment, electric transport is better than liquid fueled, he then claims that this should be ignored in favor of his cherry picked selection of negatives because "Clearly, heís biased.". This sort of rationalization is clearly showing his own biased stand.

I will say that battery technology has to improve a bit before we hit a 'tipping point' and a mass move to plug in hybrid vehicles but the most exciting news lately seems to be in relation to cheaper, lighter and stronger batteries so I have a lot of faith in the future of the electric car.

Since: Dec 12

Pembroke, NC

#2 Apr 10, 2013
Electric Cars aren't perfect they are just a much better alternative. Public Transit is best eco-friendly alternative and there are other low to zero emissions technology being developed.

As of now Electric Cars are only good for City driving. It's not effective transportation for Rural and long distance driving yet. Later on they may become ready for those uses.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#3 Apr 10, 2013
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
Electric Cars aren't perfect they are just a much better alternative. Public Transit is best eco-friendly alternative and there are other low to zero emissions technology being developed.
As of now Electric Cars are only good for City driving. It's not effective transportation for Rural and long distance driving yet. Later on they may become ready for those uses.
Ergo the viability of 'plug in hybrid's which combine the economy of the electric for short distances with the fuel based range of the ICE.
A Thought

Vacaville, CA

#5 Apr 20, 2013
Q: Are electric vehicles eco-friendly?

A: No.

You all make mountians out of...
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#6 Apr 20, 2013
a bad thought wrote:
Q: Are electric vehicles eco-friendly?
A: No.
Electric motors are 3+times more efficient than internal combustion engines(ICE). ICE average 20+mpg. Including fossil fuel used in gas tankers to deliver fuel to gas stations, the average ICE is near 15 mpg equivalence. Numerous EVs produce 90+mpg equivalence. Careful driving can increase EV mpg to over 100mpg.

ICE pollution products in-city produces lung, heart & neurological diseases in children, & adults, working, playing & living near free-way congested highways. Actual EV pollution products are near zero.

Truly, "a bad thought" thinks badly.

Since: Dec 12

Pembroke, NC

#7 Apr 20, 2013
Also it's better to have a lot of pollution from one source than a lot of pollution in multiple sources all over the place. If it's one place, it's easier to control. Not to mention we are still working on Renewable Energy sources.

However, even with all of these advantages, one of the major Achilles heel of EV Cars is the material to make them Batteries are conflict materials, and the mining of it has environmental challenges. So it's not 100% Green, but it's still a lot better than ICE's.
A Thought

Vacaville, CA

#8 Apr 20, 2013
So you both agree with me. The answer to the question is "no".
The question did not ask for a comparison.
Enjoy your weekend.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#9 Apr 20, 2013
bad thought wrote:
So you both agree with me. The answer to the question is "no".
"bad thought" thinks badly. Even when electricity is produced by coal, EV motion produces less pollution than ICE, & almost always outside cities. If electricity is produced by wind & hydro power, pollution is only 4% of ICE. & almost none of that 4% is in-city.

"bad thought" WANTS to think badly.

Since: Dec 12

Pembroke, NC

#10 Apr 20, 2013
A Thought wrote:
So you both agree with me. The answer to the question is "no".
The question did not ask for a comparison.
Enjoy your weekend.
I said, neither yes or no, I said it's better than ICE's. I guess if you wanted a definitive answer, "No" would be the correct answer as of now, but in it's perfect form it would be Green. It's pollution would minimal at worst. So you are correct that it's not Green. I have no problem saying that. But our main point is that it's a better option.

City folk don't need cars, and with congested roads and crumbling infrastructure, it's impossible to deny this fact. So in a perfect Green world, there would be fewer personal vehicles and more reliance on Public Transport and human powered transport. However in reality EV's or Green alternative Cars are the greenest ways to go for now.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#11 Apr 20, 2013
bad thought wrote:
The question did not ask for a comparison.
That's because toxic topix AGW deniers have no science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra, or pre-calc for their poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaas. Without science & mathematics degrees or backgrounds, vast percentages of toxic topix AGW deniers cannot evaluate differences between technologies.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#12 Apr 20, 2013
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
City folk don't need cars
Please explain this to the 'city folk' that commute from 100 miles away and take an hour and a half to get to work. I'm sure they will be all ears..

And maybe I can bike around without dodging the stupid (*#$%^#%^$s
A Thought

Vacaville, CA

#13 Apr 21, 2013
Excellent! You know how to banter... Happy Sunday to you.
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
I said, neither yes or no, I said it's better than ICE's. I guess if you wanted a definitive answer, "No" would be the correct answer as of now, but in it's perfect form it would be Green. It's pollution would minimal at worst. So you are correct that it's not Green. I have no problem saying that. But our main point is that it's a better option.
City folk don't need cars, and with congested roads and crumbling infrastructure, it's impossible to deny this fact. So in a perfect Green world, there would be fewer personal vehicles and more reliance on Public Transport and human powered transport. However in reality EV's or Green alternative Cars are the greenest ways to go for now.

Since: Dec 12

Pembroke, NC

#14 Apr 21, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain this to the 'city folk' that commute from 100 miles away and take an hour and a half to get to work. I'm sure they will be all ears..
And maybe I can bike around without dodging the stupid (*#$%^#%^$s
The more cars on the road the slower traffic is. The less cars, the faster traffic is. The reason why it takes most people an hour+ to get to work is because they are joined by thousands of other people trying to get to work at the same time.

Now picture this. You take you're car about 3 miles to a tran system, that takes you to the general area of you're employment, you get off, you either walk, bike, or take a bus the rest of the way. The benefit of that is, not only are you getting to work without using a lot of gas, you are getting to work faster, because instead of having 100+ people in front of you going the same way individually, you are with 100+ people going the same way at the same time, stopping a few times for about 10 seconds tops.

In Charlotte I can go from the top of the tran system to the bottom in about 30 minutes. That beats the Highway. I do understand not every city has this, not every city has a good public transit system America's in general pales in comparison to Europe's. This method of transport isn't for everybody, but most people can benefit from Public Transport than Private. It's cheaper, safer, and saves time.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#15 Apr 21, 2013
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
The more cars on the road the slower traffic is. The less cars, the faster traffic is. The reason why it takes most people an hour+ to get to work is because they are joined by thousands of other people trying to get to work at the same time.
Brilliant Oh Spewer of the Obvious. Now answer the question of WHY there are so many cars and they commute from so far out.
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
Now picture this. You take you're car about 3 miles to a tran system, that takes you to the general area of you're employment, you get off, you either walk, bike, or take a bus the rest of the way.
Of course I can picture it. I do it to get to work. What part of 'dodging the stupid (*#$%^#%^$s did you not understand??
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
In Charlotte I can go from the top of the tran system to the bottom in about 30 minutes. That beats the Highway.


So? There will still be cars and there will still be gridlock. They have the political PRIORITY. Car drivers command the government and ignore the rules because they are continually frustrated with not having MORE roads and LESS traffic so they feel they can ignore pedestrians or painted traffic islands, etc. And so far, the courts and police seem to agree. Must be the property taxes..
Mr_Uaintuponthis wrote:
<quoted text>
This method of transport isn't for everybody, but most people can benefit from Public Transport than Private. It's cheaper, safer, and saves time.


"Not for everybody" so you admit that cars will still command the majority of the system. And most commutes are only possible IN cars since the transit and bicycles rarely or never use highways which are the only way to get to 'satellite communities'. Until and unless we develop 'arcologies' for the city, the primary transport will be cars and the primary problem will be gridlock. Toronto is verging on it right now and the TTC is hamstrung by 'no tax increase' politics. The fight is to invest in Transit to reduce the cars on the road or to invest in rebuilding the roads that are falling apart. To raise taxes, the roads win.

And bicycle routes are hazardous at best. The news is getting full of 'pedeestrian killed' or 'cyclist struck' and generally not only are no charges laid but they almost get a medal (see Michael Bryant) for the hastle of 'cleaning up the streets'.

Me. I want to live in Portland Oregon. I understand that it is a cycling heaven.

Since: Dec 12

Pembroke, NC

#16 Apr 21, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Brilliant Oh Spewer of the Obvious. Now answer the question of WHY there are so many cars and they commute from so far out.
<quoted text>
Of course I can picture it. I do it to get to work. What part of 'dodging the stupid (*#$%^#%^$s did you not understand??
<quoted text>
So? There will still be cars and there will still be gridlock. They have the political PRIORITY. Car drivers command the government and ignore the rules because they are continually frustrated with not having MORE roads and LESS traffic so they feel they can ignore pedestrians or painted traffic islands, etc. And so far, the courts and police seem to agree. Must be the property taxes..
<quoted text>
"Not for everybody" so you admit that cars will still command the majority of the system. And most commutes are only possible IN cars since the transit and bicycles rarely or never use highways which are the only way to get to 'satellite communities'. Until and unless we develop 'arcologies' for the city, the primary transport will be cars and the primary problem will be gridlock. Toronto is verging on it right now and the TTC is hamstrung by 'no tax increase' politics. The fight is to invest in Transit to reduce the cars on the road or to invest in rebuilding the roads that are falling apart. To raise taxes, the roads win.
And bicycle routes are hazardous at best. The news is getting full of 'pedeestrian killed' or 'cyclist struck' and generally not only are no charges laid but they almost get a medal (see Michael Bryant) for the hastle of 'cleaning up the streets'.
Me. I want to live in Portland Oregon. I understand that it is a cycling heaven.
I think misread you're previous post. When you said "please explain this," I thought you wanted me to explain it to you.

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