Request to honor WWI hero OK'd

A campaign to get the highest military honor for an El Paso veteran has received Gov.

[RepresentUs]

Its a shame, an El Paso Legislator did not author this bill. It was authored by State Senator Eddie Lucio of Brownsville, Texas.

I guess our El Paso Legislators were too busy fighting amongst each other.

[FN mexicans]

This is shameful. This soldier did his duty and more and was well recognized for it. So why this push to upgrade his medals??? This is just the result of a bunch of mexicans riding the wave of hispanics using the politically correct movement to get stuff that they don't deserve. The governor has no choice but to approve this...Otherwise they would call him a racist...and say he must hate mexicans...even ones that risked their lives for America!.....BULL....this is disgrace to this man's name....I am so sick of this kind of crap!

[Former El Pasoan]

FNM Dude - You need to move if you really feel that way. Were you on the committee that kept Serna from getting the Medal of Honor in the first place? WOW!

[tsk tsk]

There is always one in the bunch that cannot handle someone else being successful or being recognized for something they did right like the comment posted by FN mexicans... nothing but pitty for you... and way to go to that veteran!

[Hispanic FtBliss Soldier]

So I got the free Go Army T-shirt for enlisting. I didnt know I could get a free Medal of Honor too! All I wanted to do was serve my country, not demand red carpet treatment because a Distinguished Service Cross just isnt good enough. So I have to be deceased for 17 years so that my children can fight over who gets to have "Daddy's Medal" What a great country we live in. God Bless the USA.

[DarkMan]

Hispanic FtBliss Soldier wrote:

So I got the free Go Army T-shirt for enlisting. I didnt know I could get a free Medal of Honor too! All I wanted to do was serve my country, not demand red carpet treatment because a Distinguished Service Cross just isnt good enough. So I have to be deceased for 17 years so that my children can fight over who gets to have "Daddy's Medal" What a great country we live in. God Bless the USA.

It was not free you pos he earned the damn thing. unlike the modern army which is full of lazy fatties

[Bikerknight]

First, it is significant to point out that just as history is often ill-served by those who try to see the actions of the ancient, or even recent, past in the light of modern sensitivities and modern values, so is the cause of justice often ill-served when we seek to right perceived injustices in the past. Where we see injustice, those from the time we seek to remedy might only see the luck of the draw.

The sad thing about this is that whenever award boards are convened due to political pressure, especially when it is long after the fact, any decision they make to upgrade the awarded medal is automatically and often rightly dismissed as a cave in to pressure.

It is certainly possible that racial prejudice kept Private Serna from receiving a Medal of Honor. I have read an article about his heroism and cannot necessarily see a clear difference between his actions and those of SGT Alvin York. That said, it is just as likely that a chain of command with lesser written communications skills than others with award packages at AEF or Army headquarters may have cost him the Medal. Lastly (not among possibilities, but among things I will discuss), it is also possible that fair-minded military minds of the times saw just enough of a difference among THE WRITE-UP of Private Serna's exploits and those describing the valor of other soldiers. Like it or not, standards change over time. The standard of above and beyond the call of duty is not as high now in many cases as it was in the aftermath of WWI.

One case in point: Teddy Roosevelt was posthumously awarded the Medal during the Clinton administration. I think it is clear that both the decision to have the military rconsider the award and the award of the Medal itself were politically motivated. While he was still alive, even during his presidency, various people sought to reopen his case for consideration. Each time it was within his power to stop such goings on, he did so. At some point, the standards (not the prejudices) of the past must be given their due and must be allowed to speak for their time.

I wish the effort well. I just hope that whatever decision is made is made with full deference to the standards of conduct as expected at the time of the action. Sadly, past experience leads me to believe that should the Medal of honor be awarded, it will always be suspect in the eyes of some reasonable observers of history.

[Hispanic FtBliss Soldier]

Of course it was not free. How do you earn something that you demand to have? His family said he always wanted it. Wah Wah I want my medal of honor! Those who witnessed his efforts should be the ones petitioning. Wait, he served in WWI. How many veterans who served with him are going to support this now? Are you going to dig them up and get a statement. The best WWI soldier who earned a medal of honor was Alvin C. York. He did not demand it.

[Too Tired to Care]

The Medal of Honor is not earned; It is awarded.

Earned implies an active pursuit through proscribed steps or achievements, I doubt you will find a living holder of this distinguished Medal who will tell you he/she "earned"it.

If existing military commanders, upon review of the doumentation, determine Pvt. Serna's actions warrant the award, then so be it. If not, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, a great honor for any awarded it. This is an issue of degree, brought about by those who feel minorities were slighted in the past in the award of military honors, a case for which there are many, many examples that this belief is correct.

[DarkMan]

Hispanic FtBliss Soldier wrote:

Of course it was not free. How do you earn something that you demand to have? His family said he always wanted it. Wah Wah I want my medal of honor! Those who witnessed his efforts should be the ones petitioning. Wait, he served in WWI. How many veterans who served with him are going to support this now? Are you going to dig them up and get a statement. The best WWI soldier who earned a medal of honor was Alvin C. York. He did not demand it.

you are making it sound like WWI was cake walk. iraq is nothing like the world wars! Read a fu ck en book

[you stupid liberal]

El Chez wrote:

I hope all El Pasoans and Mr. Serna's family understand that this so called noble jester is politically connected to Republican self interest. Perry and his Republican cronies are after the Hispanic vote. All my respect to Mr. Sena a true hero, it is a shame that it took so long for him to get what he deserves for his actions. Under the current political climate I would rather have his family rest assured that the Distinguished Service Medal he earned back than should stand as a testament for his brave actions. To use him now for political self interest is an insult to his family and the Mexican-American GI's who served & died during WWII.

Read the freakin article you retard!... The whole thing was started by some stupid mexican in CA... Don't even try to pin this one on the republicans. You morons complain when the government does not recognize hispanic voters and then you complain when they do...there really is no making you whiney beggars happy!

And just in case there was any doubt that you are an idiot.... try looking up jester in an English dictionary....(then look up gesture)....WOW!

I do agree with you though, that this guy does not deserve the medal of honor.... and that this is all about gaining favor with the mexicans.

[DarkMan]

you stupid liberal wrote:

<quoted text>
Read the freakin article you retard!... The whole thing was started by some stupid mexican in CA... Don't even try to pin this one on the republicans. You morons complain when the government does not recognize hispanic voters and then you complain when they do...there really is no making you whiney beggars happy!
And just in case there was any doubt that you are an idiot.... try looking up jester in an English dictionary....(then look up gesture)....WOW!
I do agree with you though, that this guy does not deserve the medal of honor.... and that this is all about gaining favor with the mexicans.

Why does he not rate the MOH? Were you there? Did you see what he went through? Of course not! You are just some conservative pr ick that thinks to highly of himself. You probably have never even served your country.

[Bikerknight]

DarkMan wrote:

<quoted text>
Why does he not rate the MOH? Were you there? Did you see what he went through? Of course not! You are just some conservative pr ick that thinks to highly of himself. You probably have never even served your country.

You rode right over the crux of the problem that arrises each time we attempt, many decades after the fact, to correct "wrongs" we are convinced MAY HAVE occured in the past. Very seldom is anyone available to attest to the facts as they occured on the ground. So what will the new people actually see that is different from what the original deciders saw? Answer; probably nothing.

So what happens by default is that modern men (possibly military, or legal, or political) will substitute their judgment and experiences for those of the board of officers who originally considered the case for the award. It is highly unlikely that the kind of sworn testimony as is required to support the command's original request for the award will have surfaced since the original board. It is also unlikely that any overt evidence of either a specific instance of racial discrimination in this case, or even of a more general "systemic" pattern of abuse will be in evidence. So in the end, we are back to modern officers substituting their military experience and standards of conduct for those of the officers who read and considered the request at a time shortly following the actions in question. Barring any specific evidence of abuse, I come down on the side of letting each age be the judge of its own heroes.

[you stupid liberal]

DarkMan wrote:

<quoted text>
Why does he not rate the MOH? Were you there? Did you see what he went through? Of course not! You are just some conservative pr ick that thinks to highly of himself. You probably have never even served your country.

Soooooo....let me get this straight... I am not entitled to an opinion about this guy deserving the MOH based on the facts that have been published but it is PERECTLY VALID for you to determine that I am a "pr ick" and have never served based on some stupid assumptions on your part?....typical stupid liberal making up crap when you have nothing to base a REAL debate on.

Well if we are gonna play that game....go back to mexico you stupid fn uneducated mexican welfare P O S... I really wonder if you would even be posting here if this were a White guy we were debating about????

By the way, did you have a point to make or did you just wanna spew insults like some moron?

[you stupid liberal]

Bikerknight wrote:

<quoted text>
....I come down on the side of letting each age be the judge of its own heroes.

Very well said.
I got sucked into a crap throwing contest with idiots...you captured the true issues....kudos.

[Anglo Saxon]

Too Tired to Care wrote:

The Medal of Honor is not earned; It is awarded.
Earned implies an active pursuit through proscribed steps or achievements, I doubt you will find a living holder of this distinguished Medal who will tell you he/she "earned"it.
If existing military commanders, upon review of the doumentation, determine Pvt. Serna's actions warrant the award, then so be it. If not, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, a great honor for any awarded it. This is an issue of degree, brought about by those who feel minorities were slighted in the past in the award of military honors, a case for which there are many, many examples that this belief is correct.

WRONG, WRONG ,WRONG!
I was nominated for a Purple Heart for wounds recieved during combat. I turned it down because I did not feel I had "earned" it. I came to this decision because I could not equate my injuries to those of my brothers who lost vision, arms, legs and were forever going to be tied to wheel chairs.
You are partially correct, however, when it comes to John Kerry.
Heroes earn their medals. Liberals "award" the undeserving!

[Too Tired to Care]

Anglo Saxon wrote:

<quoted text>
WRONG, WRONG ,WRONG!
I was nominated for a Purple Heart for wounds recieved during combat. I turned it down because I did not feel I had "earned" it. I came to this decision because I could not equate my injuries to those of my brothers who lost vision, arms, legs and were forever going to be tied to wheel chairs.
You are partially correct, however, when it comes to John Kerry.
Heroes earn their medals. Liberals "award" the undeserving!

Regarding the Purple Heart, I agree with you on an emotional level, but reality is the Medal is awarded based on simple criteria - wounded in combat if I remember correctly.

Other Military "ribbons" are specifically earned - example - meritorious service, National Defense, etc.

I just think the Medal of Honor is in a class of its own. I would be comfortable assuming that most receipients wish the circumstances under which their actions took place never existed to put them in the position of being awarded this great honor. The minimum standard for award is actions above and beyond the call of duty. In reality, just as you recognize the greater sacrafice of others who earned the Purple Heart, these MOH Awardees usually state that they wear it for those who did not return.

[anon]

Hispanic FtBliss Soldier wrote:

Of course it was not free. How do you earn something that you demand to have? His family said he always wanted it. Wah Wah I want my medal of honor! Those who witnessed his efforts should be the ones petitioning. Wait, he served in WWI. How many veterans who served with him are going to support this now? Are you going to dig them up and get a statement. The best WWI soldier who earned a medal of honor was Alvin C. York. He did not demand it.

completely false statement. he never EVER spoke of wanting the medal of honor. that wasn't him. he didn't even like to speak of the war. and that family member... the "grandduaghter" also false. Marcelino Serna only had 2 grand children.

check your facts Andrew Kreighbaum.

[Bikerknight]

Frankly, another possibly major issue just occured to me. this falls into what I said about allowing each age to be the judge of its own heroes. Private Serna was at the time a Mexican citizen, that also could partially explain why he got the DSC instead of the Medal of Honor.
Can anyone remember world history and the Zimmerman Telegram? Even at the close of WWI, many were convinced, I think correctly, that Mexico was at least a semi-passive collaborator with Germany.
That, rather than the fact that he was Hispanic, may have kept him from receiving a MoH. The US government would have been very loathe to award a Mexican national with the nation's highest honor.

And at the end of all things, you can spend hours reading DSC and MoH citations without being able to determine clearly where the line resides that turns a DSC into a MoH.

[Bikerknight]

El Chez wrote:

I hope all El Pasoans and Mr. Serna's family understand that this so called noble jester is politically connected to Republican self interest. Perry and his Republican cronies are after the Hispanic vote. All my respect to Mr. Sena a true hero, it is a shame that it took so long for him to get what he deserves for his actions. Under the current political climate I would rather have his family rest assured that the Distinguished Service Medal he earned back than should stand as a testament for his brave actions. To use him now for political self interest is an insult to his family and the Mexican-American GI's who served & died during WWII.

El Chez,
The DSM is the highest non-valorous award in the US military. It is oceans away from being a Distinguished Service Cross (Navy Cross, Air Force Cross), the second highest award for valor.