Wind Energy's Ghosts

Feb 28, 2012 Full story: hawaiifreepress.com 34

The voices of Kamaoa cry out their warning as a new batch of colonists, having looted the taxpayers of Spain, Portugal, and Greece, seeks to expand upon their multi-billion-dollar foothold half a world away on the shores of the distant Potomac River. European wind developers are fleeing the EU's expiring wind subsidies, shuttering factories, laying off workers, and leaving billions of Euros of sovereign debt and a continent-wide financial crisis in their wake. But their game is not over. Already they are tapping a new vein of lucre from the taxpayers and ratepayers of the United States.

Waxman-Markey seems dead, and Europe's southern periphery is bankrupt. But the wind-subsidy proposals being floated in Congress suggest that American political leaders have yet to understand that "green power" means generating electricity by burning dollars.

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LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#1 Feb 29, 2012
Wind energy is competitive with coal in even moderate wind speeds. However, this article is all about two decades ago when wind energy was popular but the technology was still developing.

No. Wind energy is NOT dead. This is just an opinion piece by an anti-wind advocate. Meaningless.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#2 Feb 29, 2012
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
The majority of LARGE offshore windmills are made by Enercon which has been gearless for quite some time.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
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Enercon does not currently offer or supply wind turbines to offshore projects, and has at times expressed skepticism about offshore wind parks. Enercon was rumored to have been ready to supply turbines to Germany's Alpha Ventus offshore wind farm and to a near-shore park near Wilhelmshaven, but did not do so.
John

United States

#3 Feb 29, 2012
More than one third of Germany’s 21,500 wind turbines are located in the nation’s east. This concentration of generating capacity regularly overloads the region’s electricity grid, threatening blackouts.

German Economics Minister Rainer Brüderle recently warned that Germany faces frequent power blackouts because too much ‘green electricity’ is being pumped onto the grid.

While this is a problem all four of Germany’s major electricity network operators have to deal with one time or another, Belgian-Australian company 50Hertz Transmission is particularly hard hit. It took over the monitoring and protection of the eastern German energy grid – which is home to more than 8,000 wind turbines – from Swedish company Vattenfall last year, and faces the threat of power outages much more often than its counterparts.

The situation tends to be particularly critical on public holidays, 50Hertz systems control and security chief Hans-Peter Erbring told Deutsche Welle. That’s when residents and companies based in eastern Germany use significantly less electricity than usual – but the wind, of course, often blows regardless.

In extreme cases, wind turbines and conventional power plants in eastern Germany produce three to four times the total amount of electricity actually being used. This surplus places a great strain on the eastern German “supergrid”– a 10,000 kilometer ‘electrical highway’ that transmits energy from offshore wind farms and large power plants for distribution among high-voltage networks.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#4 Feb 29, 2012
John wrote:
More than one third of Germany’s 21,500 wind turbines are located in the nation’s east. This concentration of generating capacity regularly overloads the region’s electricity grid, threatening blackouts.
John. Rather than dumbly cut and paste some journalists work, why don't you just give a reference to the opinion piece you are spouting.

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.ht...

"Wind power currently produces about six percent of Germany’s total electrical power." Even antiquated grids should be able to handle 6% wind power.

You can tell that the author is clueless when he says "In extreme cases, wind turbines and conventional power plants in eastern Germany produce three to four times the total amount of electricity actually being used."

This is obvious nonsense. The amount used HAS to equal the amount produced.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#5 Feb 29, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
"One of Enercon's key innovations is the use of a gearless, direct drive mechanism, used in combination with an annular generator.[7] This is in contrast to most other wind turbines, which use a potentially less reliable gearbox in order to increase the rotation speed of the generator."

"As of July 2011, Enercon had installed more than 17,000 wind turbines, with a power generating capacity exceeding 24 GW.[3] The most-often installed model is the E-40, which pioneered the gearbox-less design in 1993.[4] As of July 2011, Enercon has a market share of 7.2% world-wide (fifth-highest) and 59.2% in Germany."

As I said, the difficulty of maintenance in offshore wind power puts the Enercon gearless drive turbine at an advantage since the gearbox is the highest failure rate/maintenance requirement of the turbines.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#6 Feb 29, 2012
It's 2012, and the dastardly clever Germans haven't managed to work out how to control the national grid?
Ich werde meinen Hut essen.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#7 Feb 29, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
As I said, the difficulty of maintenance in offshore wind power puts the Enercon gearless drive turbine at an advantage since the gearbox is the highest failure rate/maintenance requirement of the turbines.
But that isn't what you "said" at all, not even close, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
This is exactly what you said:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
The majority of LARGE offshore windmills are made by Enercon which has been gearless for quite some time.
And here's the link to where you said it:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
-
IF Enercon supplied units for offshore use, I'm sure they'd give excellent service, but Enercon don't supply units for offshre use, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#8 Feb 29, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
It's 2012, and the dastardly clever Germans haven't managed to work out how to control the national grid?
Why is it that no matter what the subject, you have something stupid and ignorant to say about it? Second childhood? Senility?
litesong

Everett, WA

#9 Feb 29, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
It's 2012, and the dastardly clever Germans haven't managed to work out how to control the national grid?
Sixty years of a dilapidated soviet controlled east german economy & electric grid, & then pump large quantities of electricity from modern technology wind turbines....... but "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling", who is a slimy steeking filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig, hasn't got a hi skule deegreee, hasn't got mathematics & science degrees & has no background in mathematics & science, has got ready answers. In truth, what "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" has is one question based on his ego.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#10 Feb 29, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Why is it that no matter what the subject, you have something stupid and ignorant to say about it?
You say stupid and ignorant things when you're being serious, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty, I can't be accused of being that stupid.

Why do you argue from such precarious positions with absolutely no foundation to them?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#11 Feb 29, 2012
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
According to YOUR theory, no car can be charged with hitting a pedestrian unless the pedestrian is already dead or too crippled to move.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
-
It was evidently a sound theory, cars cannot be charged in court.
John

United States

#13 Mar 1, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
John. Rather than dumbly cut and paste some journalists work, why don't you just give a reference to the opinion piece you are spouting.
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.ht...
"Wind power currently produces about six percent of Germany’s total electrical power." Even antiquated grids should be able to handle 6% wind power.
You can tell that the author is clueless when he says "In extreme cases, wind turbines and conventional power plants in eastern Germany produce three to four times the total amount of electricity actually being used."
This is obvious nonsense. The amount used HAS to equal the amount produced.
Shows what you know about power generation. You don't think excess power generation will overload the grid ? Get a clue. http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.ht...
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#14 Mar 1, 2012
John wrote:
<quoted text>Shows what you know about power generation. You don't think excess power generation will overload the grid ? Get a clue. http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.ht...
You can build a dumb enough grid and bad enough controls to be overloadable. But an electron is an electron. It doesn't CARE if it comes from a wind or steam turbine.

The problem with wind is that it is generally generated where winds are strong and used where populations are dense. People don't tend to build where steady winds are a local problem.

So you need a better grid that can move power more freely. Usually with high voltage DC 'backbone'. The issue with DC is that it is point to point (no taps in the middle) but that is exactly what you want when the power is generated away from the place it is used.

And you don't overload the grid. You may overload a SECTION of the grid. But that means eaither that you routed too much power INTO it, or it is not designed to handle the loads it is carrying.

Either way, wind power is NOT the problem.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#15 Mar 1, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
You can build a dumb enough grid and bad enough controls to be overloadable. But an electron is an electron. It doesn't CARE if it comes from a wind or steam turbine.
The problem with wind is that it is generally generated where winds are strong and used where populations are dense. People don't tend to build where steady winds are a local problem.
So you need a better grid that can move power more freely. Usually with high voltage DC 'backbone'. The issue with DC is that it is point to point (no taps in the middle) but that is exactly what you want when the power is generated away from the place it is used.
And you don't overload the grid. You may overload a SECTION of the grid. But that means eaither that you routed too much power INTO it, or it is not designed to handle the loads it is carrying.
Either way, wind power is NOT the problem.
Why dont you apply to the German 50Hertz company?
I'm sure they'll be willing to pay a handsome price for your advice, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
litesong

Everett, WA

#16 Mar 1, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
It was evidently a sound theory, cars cannot be charged in court.
No U.S. or euro outlets are allowed in courts? I didn't know that!

& what sound theory? Electric motors in cars are very quiet.

Did you hear about the electric car drag racers. Tho the electric cars are setting records beating the internal combustion engine vehicles, the fans don't want them on the quarter mile tracks. They're NOT making enough noise to interest the fans.
litesong

Everett, WA

#17 Mar 1, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
So you need a better grid that can move power more freely. Usually with high voltage DC 'backbone'.
Our western U.S. has a DC intertie, which even transfers power from Canada. Probably the best use of a DC intertie would be transferring power to a major industrial site that uses DC powered equipment, eliminating DC-AC conversion & making DC electrical battery storage simplier & more efficient. Actually, lots of home AC appliances are DC equipment modified to use local AC current.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#18 Mar 1, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Our western U.S. has a DC intertie, which even transfers power from Canada. Probably the best use of a DC intertie would be transferring power to a major industrial site that uses DC powered equipment, eliminating DC-AC conversion & making DC electrical battery storage simplier & more efficient. Actually, lots of home AC appliances are DC equipment modified to use local AC current.
There has been discussion about a network of such DC links as part of the 'smart grid' to ensure power can be shifted from where it is cheapest or most avaialble to where it is needed, however, the links tend to be blocked because the fossil fuel companies (and a few allies in power generation) work to block them.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#19 Mar 1, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
There has been discussion about a network of such DC links as part of the 'smart grid' to ensure power can be shifted from where it is cheapest or most avaialble to where it is needed, however, the links tend to be blocked because the fossil fuel companies (and a few allies in power generation) work to block them.
More conspiracy theory from Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty, he who must be right.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#20 Mar 2, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
<quoted text>More conspiracy theory from Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty, he who must be right.
Nope. Fact.

I am a lot closer to the problem than you are, so I don't know why you think you are such an expert on North American power generation and distribution.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#21 Mar 2, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
I am a lot closer to the problem than you are, so I don't know why you think you are such an expert on North American power generation and distribution.
Where or when did I suggest I was an expert on that subject?

Oh yes, that's right, I never did.

Anything to say about 'thermal pollutant' yet?

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