Tehama County Board vote irks county ...

Tehama County Board vote irks county employees

There are 49 comments on the Red Bluff Daily News story from Feb 17, 2011, titled Tehama County Board vote irks county employees. In it, Red Bluff Daily News reports that:

Tehama County Supervisors met with disdain from dozens of county workers Tuesday as supervisors implemented an increase in employee-share payments to the California Public Employees' Retirement System, or CalPERS, for some 500 employees.

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Since: Sep 10

United States

#21 Feb 18, 2011
Well Craig this just happened to be on the news tonight. Let the opening commercial play through.
Wages, Public sector wins.
Benefits, Public sector wins.
Retirement, Public sector wins.
However, there are a few specialized occupations, a CPA in this instance, where the private sector wins with wages by about 5%.

http://a.abcnews.com/WNT/video/wages-stack-na...

However, give me a little time, and I'm going to do much better. I have the stats on exactly what all The State of California makes AND what the public employees make in Tehama County. I have the stats on what the private sector makes as well.

I have to reassemble them and put them together. I understand and agree with you that it's very difficult to compare apples to apples, but I'll try my best. We can discuss the particulars then.

Now keep in mind it's not my intention to put you on the spot. Mine is more that I prefer the truth wins, even if I'm proven wrong.

“Han, mah bukee, keel-ee caleya”

Since: Feb 11

Dairyville

#22 Feb 18, 2011
craig wrote:
<quoted text>How do I prove this. Well lets see, while I was the arborist for the City, I made $17.52 per hour, and the part timer that worked with me, made $10.51 per hour. So for an 8 hour day, we got paid $224.24 for a days work. We would call in a tree service to take care of a tree that we didn't have the equipment for or the city wasn't willing to accept theliabilty for, and they would charge from $900 -$1600 for the same work that we did, but they wouldn't be there for anymore than a few hours, and the city would do all the clean up. Don't tell me that those in the private sector make less than public employees.
those private sector jobs probably DO pay less, and all that extra money goes to PROFIT. This is what nobody seems to understand. The push for privatization has nothing to do with wages, labor unions, ect. It has to do with GRAVY FOR THE CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!!!! the corporations have no less bureaucracy, corruption, incompetence or anything else than public sector equivalents. It is a transfer of wealth upwards. Why do we have government? Because we used to have it the road warrior way and decided to pool resources for a better life for all. Greedy banksters and the corporatocracy want to take all of that away. Work for gruel, and be happy you are alive doesn't do it for me. A strong middle class has been sent down the river and has been sold as necessary for 'political victory over the socialist left'. If you buy that garbage please wake up! We are reverting to serfdom. Labor interests negatively impact the plutocracy - all other justification is propaganda - they won't just come out and say it, instead they program the masses through the 'control device'(television) and poof! instant union bashing, just add economic catastrophe and a dash of fear mongering. None of this bubble-crash meltdown-bailout-no real reform-we don't need regulations, just let us police ourselves horsekrap happened by accident. Live in terror, america! so we can take all of your money, your unborn generations money, deregulate ourselves some more profit (again at the expense of safety, and quality of life for the rest of us). Yeah, great thinking! Like congress defunding planned parenthood today. Yes, the population of corning will triple in the next generation. Where will we house them all. Stupid people electing fraudulent morons voting for krap they never read and don't understand. HOW COULD IT BE GOING WRONG?!?!?!? How bad does it have to get before we stop using good teeth and Kiwanas membership as criteria for elected officials. If you think we are sinking fast, try voting for people who make rational sense. It COULD make a difference.(there is nobody left on the county board who is not a DUUSHBAGGG!)

Since: Sep 10

United States

#23 Feb 18, 2011
Compensation and benefits Tehama County employees.
http://lgcr.sco.ca.gov/CompensationDetail.asp...


Tehama County per capita income $25,446 year end 2008.
Page11
http://co.tehama.ca.us/images/stories/plannin...


California Private industry workers: Hourly wage percentiles
All workers
10 25 50 75 90
$8.94 $11.70 $17.77 $28.59 $43.46

http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/nctb1222.txt

California State and local government workers: Hourly wage percentiles
All workers
10 25 50 75 90
$14.86 $18.98 $26.94 $39.22 $51.69

http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/nctb1223.txt


Table 1. Summary: Mean hourly earnings(1) and weekly hours for selected worker and establishment characteristics, Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Trucke e, CA-NV CSA,
June 2009
All workers

Civilian
Hourly earnings
Mean
$24.47

Private industry
Hourly earnings
Mean
$21.75

State and local government
Hourly earnings
Mean
$30.62

http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncbl1438.txt

Since: Sep 10

United States

#24 Feb 18, 2011
Let the spin begin.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#25 Feb 18, 2011
Gazebo the Hutt wrote:
<quoted text>
those private sector jobs probably DO pay less, and all that extra money goes to PROFIT. This is what nobody seems to understand. The push for privatization has nothing to do with wages, labor unions, ect. It has to do with GRAVY FOR THE CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!!!! the corporations have no less bureaucracy, corruption, incompetence or anything else than public sector equivalents....
Well, a couple of things here. One, is you can ALWAYS CHOOSE to quit spending your money with the private sector in protest....we all can, anytime, anyway, anywhere.
Try that with any government across the land and it will cost everything you own and prison time.

And if ,"PROFITS AND GRAVY FOR THE CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!" bother you that much then shut it down, go Galt and quitcherbitchin.

Right now, the Tehama County Board vote irks county employees and they've been talking a lot of smack about the private sector having it so good when the facts prove otherwise.
Mooving Experience

United States

#26 Feb 19, 2011
Respectful effort wrote:
Let the spin begin.
The statistics you provide are of limited value without information on comparitive education, experience, and job responsibilities among the groups. One might suspect that nearly all public sector jobs require at least a high school diploma, American citizenship, and clean arrest records. The same is not true of private sector jobs.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#27 Feb 19, 2011
Mooving Experience wrote:
<quoted text>The statistics you provide are of limited value without information on comparitive education, experience, and job responsibilities among the groups. One might suspect that nearly all public sector jobs require at least a high school diploma, American citizenship, and clean arrest records. The same is not true of private sector jobs.
I did a rough sampling of some of the occupations listed in both sectors using my practical experience.

Jobs like Office Assistant, Custodians, Cooks, Fleet Mechanics, based on the people I know or have known, their education and work ethics. I was able to find an equivalent to my own occupation listed where I'm educated, squeaky clean, and high performance.
The figures are consistent with my assertion.

In addition, people in the private sector generally have poorer working conditions and equipment as compared to the public sector. Common sense and again practical experience shows that even so, the private sector worker is more productive. The example that Craig used when explaining the Arbhorists example suggests this also.

Furthermore, again by my own experience and people I know, many times...haaa... most of the time, it's not what you know, it's who you know when obtaining a public sector job.

So...when you say, "The statistics you provide are of limited value" as compared to what you're bringing to the discussion, no statistics or research at all, has far less value.

Remember the multiple claims and the basis of this discussion and challenge.
"The private sector makes more then the public sector."
These claims were made in error and without research for basic facts. They weren't made with some stipulation of some ambiguous and unprovable complex formula containing education/arrest record income comparison.

If you want to change the rules as we go along, that's fine. But don't discount me or my material when I'm accepting and providing the burden of proof.

“Han, mah bukee, keel-ee caleya”

Since: Feb 11

Dairyville

#28 Feb 19, 2011
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, a couple of things here. One, is you can ALWAYS CHOOSE to quit spending your money with the private sector in protest....we all can, anytime, anyway, anywhere.
Try that with any government across the land and it will cost everything you own and prison time.
And if ,"PROFITS AND GRAVY FOR THE CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!" bother you that much then shut it down, go Galt and quitcherbitchin.
Right now, the Tehama County Board vote irks county employees and they've been talking a lot of smack about the private sector having it so good when the facts prove otherwise.
When the schools are all privatized will there still be education boards of elected citizens? Will there be a PTA? Or will it be controlled from Dubai and you will have no recourse. Government is for a reason! hate the waste, hate the corruption. There are both in the private sector as well. I am FOR socialized medicine, but over my dead body will they FORCE me to buy health insurance from Blue Cross. This is the biggest boondoggle for the insurance companies EVER and will NOT be cheap or effective. Insurance companies need to be taken out of the loop. Look back east and you will see the GREAT affects of privatization. Toll roads owned by foriegn governments (yeah, that's not a security risk). Times are tough for everybody, but if the private sector was so inherently superior they would not be suffering as well, now would they? As much as I enjoy reading Ayn Rand, her political theories are not practical and obviously jaded by her upbringing. If boss hogg controls EVERY ASPECT of production, and there is little or no compitition, then what is the difference between that and it being the government? Recourse, that is the difference. Do I want the government making basketballs? Of course not. Do I want Boss Hogg's profit/loss statement impacting the quality of education. HELL NO! If the government having ANY function in society bothers you that much, purchase an island and make it a regulation free paradise with unions outlawed and the 'invisible hand' curing all ills(oh wait, that is how we set up the provisional government of Iraq, and that led to a free market paradise - not!)

“Han, mah bukee, keel-ee caleya”

Since: Feb 11

Dairyville

#29 Feb 19, 2011
And when i say 'take my ball and go home' I mean just that. If that lands me in jail then so be it.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#30 Feb 19, 2011
Gazebo the Hutt wrote:
<quoted text>
When the schools are all privatized will there still be education boards of elected citizens? Will there be a PTA? Or will it be controlled from Dubai and you will have no recourse. Government is for a reason! hate the waste, hate the corruption. There are both in the private sector as well. I am FOR socialized medicine, but over my dead body will they FORCE me to buy health insurance from Blue Cross. This is the biggest boondoggle for the insurance companies EVER and will NOT be cheap or effective. Insurance companies need to be taken out of the loop. Look back east and you will see the GREAT affects of privatization. Toll roads owned by foriegn governments (yeah, that's not a security risk). Times are tough for everybody, but if the private sector was so inherently superior they would not be suffering as well, now would they? As much as I enjoy reading Ayn Rand, her political theories are not practical and obviously jaded by her upbringing. If boss hogg controls EVERY ASPECT of production, and there is little or no compitition, then what is the difference between that and it being the government? Recourse, that is the difference. Do I want the government making basketballs? Of course not. Do I want Boss Hogg's profit/loss statement impacting the quality of education. HELL NO! If the government having ANY function in society bothers you that much, purchase an island and make it a regulation free paradise with unions outlawed and the 'invisible hand' curing all ills(oh wait, that is how we set up the provisional government of Iraq, and that led to a free market paradise - not!)
So, is there anything in the information I've provided that suggests the pendulum is favoring privatization? No, quite the opposite, and I prefer balance.

Again, in your desire to argue with me you've gone off-topic and are preaching to the choir.

Since: Sep 10

Redding, CA

#31 Feb 20, 2011
QUICK!! LET'S LET THIS ONE HEAD TO PAGE TWO!!!

So how much paid vacation, sick days, personal days, holidays, days that have some fancy formula that equate to more days off, do you guys get a year?

Now don't be throwing out some lowball figure. I'm talking about an average full time position where the guy's been with the county for 10 years or so.

And that word, "full time" has me again. I brought it up in the teacher thread and found out a, "working day" was a 6-7 hour day....They've been reluctant to answer these questions as well.
But it appears, "full time" to them equates to nearly 3 months off a year.
Nate

United States

#32 Feb 21, 2011
Respectful effort wrote:
QUICK!! LET'S LET THIS ONE HEAD TO PAGE TWO!!!
So how much paid vacation, sick days, personal days, holidays, days that have some fancy formula that equate to more days off, do you guys get a year?
Now don't be throwing out some lowball figure. I'm talking about an average full time position where the guy's been with the county for 10 years or so.
And that word, "full time" has me again. I brought it up in the teacher thread and found out a, "working day" was a 6-7 hour day....They've been reluctant to answer these questions as well.
But it appears, "full time" to them equates to nearly 3 months off a year.
In a (roughly) 2 week pay period, as a county employee I recieve around 7 hours of vacation and 3 hours of sick leave. County employees recieve 13 paid holidays per year. Ater fifteen years with the county in a skilled position (with 25 years of experience in my field) I gross around $3,334 a month. My contribution to the basic health insurance plan offered by Tehama County runs $139.42 per month not counting co-pays, perscriptions and etc. After deductions I net around $2,386 per month or around $21 an hour...subtract the 3% pay cut from that. Upon retirement (if I can afford it) after 20 years I'll make, just a rough guess here, somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks a month from PERS. On a practical note, I was speaking to a guy that installs Direct TV who said he was thinking of applying for an opening at Public Works but couldn't afford the pay cut...ouch.

Since: Sep 10

Redding, CA

#33 Feb 22, 2011
Nate wrote:
<quoted text>
In a (roughly) 2 week pay period, as a county employee I recieve around 7 hours of vacation and 3 hours of sick leave. County employees recieve 13 paid holidays per year. Ater fifteen years with the county in a skilled position (with 25 years of experience in my field) I gross around $3,334 a month. My contribution to the basic health insurance plan offered by Tehama County runs $139.42 per month not counting co-pays, perscriptions and etc. After deductions I net around $2,386 per month or around $21 an hour...subtract the 3% pay cut from that. Upon retirement (if I can afford it) after 20 years I'll make, just a rough guess here, somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks a month from PERS. On a practical note, I was speaking to a guy that installs Direct TV who said he was thinking of applying for an opening at Public Works but couldn't afford the pay cut...ouch.
Thanks Nate for the response.

No, I'd say you're not cuttin' a fat hog by any means, but still not to shabby for the area.
Most private time card positions say in Chico or Redding at your average employer;
Someone who sees $40k a year or better will see 5-6 paid holidays, 3-4 sick days a year, and two weeks of paid vacation. Most employers have quit contributing into 401's, and the average employee health insurance contributions are in the neighborhood of $650 for a couple and around $800 a month for a family on a group plan HMO.

Depending on the position it has ranged from completely losing your job, or because of a general decrease in business, those who are commission have seen 30% cut in pay or more and generally a pay freeze for the remainder with a substantial increase in workload.

Almost all will have to work 45 years or so and probably not be able to afford to retire.

Your dish installer. He's doing a little better in pay, not much. I doubt he's working much these days unless he's out collecting delinquent bills. BLS did say that that industry was 20% union where the norm for industry was 14%.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes492097.htm
Mooving Experience

United States

#34 Feb 22, 2011
Everyone knows that the variability in individual work conditions and compensation plans defies any robust statistical comparisons among private and public sector jobs. At the end of the day what we are really debating are the merits of collective bargaining. Unions have been central to the development and improvement of the American middle class which is now shrinking faster than ever before. Further erosion in collective bargaining for both public and private sector employees will inevitably lead to a subservient working class and a wealth class of financiers, power brokers, and the elite. It is bad enough that the moneyed interests are blaming unions for our financial problems, but they are now in bed with our elected officials to kick the middle class to the curb in a disengeuous plot to solve the fiscal crisis that they themselves have created due to their own greed and contempt for working Americans. What they will get should they erode collective bargaining is more corruption and class warfare of the type we are witnessing today in the Arab world....
judy

Bella Vista, CA

#35 Feb 22, 2011
I've learned to expect nothing more from one-step-forward-two-steps-bac k Tehama County.
APOV

Yreka, CA

#36 Feb 22, 2011
Respectful effort wrote:
Let the spin begin.
And your wheel is the biggest

Since: Sep 10

Redding, CA

#37 Feb 22, 2011
APOV wrote:
<quoted text>
And your wheel is the biggest
APOV proves he has an opinion....impressive.

Since: Sep 10

Redding, CA

#38 Feb 22, 2011
Mooving Experience wrote:
Everyone knows that the variability in individual work conditions and compensation plans defies any robust statistical comparisons among private and public sector jobs. At the end of the day what we are really debating are the merits of collective bargaining. Unions have been central to the development and improvement of the American middle class which is now shrinking faster than ever before. Further erosion in collective bargaining for both public and private sector employees will inevitably lead to a subservient working class and a wealth class of financiers, power brokers, and the elite. It is bad enough that the moneyed interests are blaming unions for our financial problems, but they are now in bed with our elected officials to kick the middle class to the curb in a disengeuous plot to solve the fiscal crisis that they themselves have created due to their own greed and contempt for working Americans. What they will get should they erode collective bargaining is more corruption and class warfare of the type we are witnessing today in the Arab world....
Your mind is wrapped in Egypt and the basic concept that California is flat out broke escapes you.

This state is broke and the public sector, "middle class" is struggling to preserve it's middle class status on the backs of the private sector, "middle class" who is also struggling to preserve it's middle class status.
APOV

Yreka, CA

#39 Feb 22, 2011
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>
APOV proves he has an opinion....impressive.
unfortunately because it isn't in total agreement with you, it is wrong.

You would be surprised just how much in tune I am with you, other than again, I don't totally agree with you about everything so therefore, it is I that is wrong. That is very similar to the lefties attitude when someone disagrees with them.

Since: Sep 10

Redding, CA

#40 Feb 23, 2011
APOV wrote:
<quoted text>
unfortunately because it isn't in total agreement with you, it is wrong.
You would be surprised just how much in tune I am with you, other than again, I don't totally agree with you about everything so therefore, it is I that is wrong. That is very similar to the lefties attitude when someone disagrees with them.
I only admitted you had an opinion and nothing in that meant you were wrong.

I did hope however that you would read into my simple statement that I brought the conversation to another level. I brought facts from reliable sources into the conversation, as well as qualified opinion to compliment my mere opinion.

No one here isn't under any obligation to accept the facts, however, it's logical that you'd at least bring in your own set of facts to challenge those brought forward.

You however, voiced an mere opinion that falls short of even a qualified opinion and expected it to rise to the level of facts. That sir, is a blatant attempt to destroy the entire conversation.

I refer to the conversation above that I had with Nate. Because he gave me no reason to suspect that what he posted wasn't the facts or practical reality, he got the same respect back from me.

No APOV, I'm afraid you've been doing a lot of arguing and have lost sight in what honest dialogue looks like. That two simple short sentences, one yours and one mine, translated into me going all, "lefty" and calling you wrong and being in disagreement, just doesn't make sense.

You really didn't bring me that much to work with.

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