Ward, mayoral brethren target illegal weapons

Lebanon Mayor Trish Ward has added her name to a list of more than 100 mayors across the state who want to fight gun violence by passing laws that will remove illegal guns from the street.

[ionfield]

Well, Ms. Mayor, how about enforcing the laws already on the books? Are murder, rape, robbery, home invasions, etc., not already crimes? Does it really make a difference whether they are committed with a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a car, or whatever? I'm sure you must have noticed that criminals do not obey laws. The only ones affected by gun laws are law-abiding citizens.

Why do you want to make criminals out of a legal gun owner whom has his or her gun stolen? Are you also going to pass a law to make criminals out of anyone who does not report a stolen knife, a baseball bat, or a car? They can all be used to commit crimes.

All you are doing by passing more "feel good" gun laws is create criminals out of law-abiding citizens. Those laws have zero effect in reducing crime. Going after, arresting, and prosecuting the real criminals does have an effect in reducing crime.

[Mr Rational]

The NRA is always making the world a safer place... I mean why should anyone want to report a stolen firearm?

[Mr Rational]

ionfield wrote:

Why do you want to make criminals out of a legal gun owner whom has his or her gun stolen? Are you also going to pass a law to make criminals out of anyone who does not report a stolen knife, a baseball bat, or a car? They can all be used to commit crimes.
All you are doing by passing more "feel good" gun laws is create criminals out of law-abiding citizens. Those laws have zero effect in reducing crime. Going after, arresting, and prosecuting the real criminals does have an effect in reducing crime.

She's not making criminals out of anyone. You have 48 hours to report a stolen weapon once you know it is stolen. I think if someone steals your arsenal of weapons you should be held responsible if you don't report it. It should be your responsibility to notify the police that there may be some nut jobs running around with your weapons.

[Ummmmmmm]

Ok...I am confused. Why wouldn't you want to report a stolen ANYTHING??? Heck my husbands iPod was stolen and we reported it.

[kary kalin]

Ward joined a group of mayor's? Her old a$$ is GONE in a few months! Goodbye prune face !!!!

[Chatty Cathy]

If you take the victim of a crime, gun theft, and make them a criminal for not reporting it,(and I believe you should as do many other legal gun owners), then you make a victim a criminal the way I see it. But more to the point, once the victim becomes a criminal, thats done. Is the criminal in possession of the stolen weapon then required to report to the police offices and turn in the stolen weapon. Because that is what the law is intended to do, get illegal weapons off the street. Unless it works that way, I do not see how it achieves the stated goal. Rather than enact more trash law, just pass one that all criminals in possession of stolen or illegal weapons of any kind report to the local police and turn it in! Wait, hire more officers, I am sure the line will be long.
How about using the electric chair, gas chamber, noose, or yes, even a bullet to end the life of those that repeatedly abuse us? I am so tired of hearing someone was arrested their 48th time for larceny or some other crime. Damend, do you politicians not get it? A small percentage of trash commits the preponderance of the crime (80/20 theiry I think). Get rid of them. I support the laws we have, defend my rights, and protect myself to the largest extent possible. Thos that blame the NRA for this problem--take a look at what the NRA and city of Richmond Va did to lower crime. Then assess, if you can, what the NRA stands for and against.
Chatty

[Mr Rational]

Ummmmmmm wrote:

Ok...I am confused. Why wouldn't you want to report a stolen ANYTHING??? Heck my husbands iPod was stolen and we reported it.

ipods don't kill people and they're not used in crimes. Duh.

[whatheheck]

They want to get ILLEGAL guns off the street!
The NRA and its followers can't quite seem to come to grips with the fact that those ILLEGAL guns are killing LEGAL people!

And by the way Cathy, when the gun is stolen, the owner is a victim. If they don't report it and the gun is used to kill someone, then they cease being a victim have made themselves an accomplice to the crime and therefore, a criminal.

[Rational brain fart]

So, if I report my gun stolen is the Mayor going to immediately demand the city perimeter be blockaded while the police stop and search every car coming and going, every person walking, running, swimming, shopping, all houses entered and searched and, continue the search till the stolen weapon is found. Anything short of this proves the law short sided, unproductive and, lives are at risk till this happens. Will THEY? NO! They will wait till the gun is involved in a crime and only then. Then they will get an "atta-Boy" for great crime work. Garbage
Of course a reasonable gun owner would report a stolen gun. Reasons why a responsible gun owner wouldn't report a stolen weapon are numerous and innocent.
For all you non gun owners. Wake up and use your brain once. For the mayor and any other politician who supports this. See you later at the election booth.

[2Aalltheway]

The way I see it, there are 4 types of 2nd Amendment folks. I'm guessing there are other variations, but for me, I see this:

1. Those who are serious about their 2nd Amendment rights, right down to legally owning, carrying and continually educating themeselves regarding their rights AND their knowledge base on the laws and appropriate handling of their firearm. These are the same people who hope to never have to use their firearm in self defense of their person, or their family. These people take classes on gun safety, practice accuracy, attend trainings, and go through make believe scenarios so if ever in a self defense situation, both victim, and believe it or not, the criminal may live to see the next day.

2. Those who are for 2nd Amendment rights, but choose not to own/carry a firearm.(This is not the same as an 'anti' firearm person, they just for some reason or another choose not to enact their 2nd Amendment right).

3**. Those who think every gun manufactured is manufactured soley for an individual who hopes they get to use it to 'get the bad guy'; and think if you stare at a gun long enough it will go off and injure somebody; think unarming everybody will solve crime/murder. Also known as an 'anti', these people are uneducated with firearms, and take every extreme opportunity to make it about ALL firearm owners (i.e. Columbine; VA Tech) Let's face it folks, in those types of instances, people are just freaks of nature and no amount of "Government control" is going to stand in their way.

**These are actually the dangerous people. Anti's are of the belief that if you take all the guns away, crime will be solved, there will be no home invasion, there will be no murders, crime as it is known to man will cease to exist. The mere sight of a gun has them trembling and fearing for the safety of anybody in the vicinity.(Just as a side note: You have to load the gun and pull the trigger for a gun to off -- simply seeing one will not make it go bang.)

4. Lastly, you have the criminal. Those who have to steal firearms or buy them on the street because they have lost their 2nd Amendment rights. The average criminal is usually ignorant on how a firearm operates; ignorant about cleaning and maintaining a firearm; and has little to no education regarding firearms. Probably never fired a bullet from the firearm they are in possession of until it kills somebody during their crime. These people don't care about their victim, and they don't ever think they will get caught. They are short-sighted with any consequences past the instant gratification they get from stealing your money, robbing your house, or raping.

Now that we got the definitions laid out, who are you? Who will you side with when our politicians come to take away your rights?

Me, you ask? From my cold dead hand.

Bye Trish, you fought a good fight, or should I say a dirty fight?

[2Aalltheway]

Mr Rational wrote:

<quoted text>
ipods don't kill people and they're not used in crimes. Duh.

I disagree.

Guns don't kill people either, people kill people.

I could very easily take the iPod cord and strangle you with it.

iPods don't kill people, people kill people.

[Ummmmmmm]

Mr Rational wrote:

<quoted text>
ipods don't kill people and they're not used in crimes. Duh.

Mr. Rational.....I am well aware of that. My point was that I don't understand why someone who legally owns a gun wouldn't report the theft of it!!!!!! Please read the whole comment before writing your own comments. Thank you.

[Chatty Cathy]

whatheheck wrote:

They want to get ILLEGAL guns off the street!
The NRA and its followers can't quite seem to come to grips with the fact that those ILLEGAL guns are killing LEGAL people!
And by the way Cathy, when the gun is stolen, the owner is a victim. If they don't report it and the gun is used to kill someone, then they cease being a victim have made themselves an accomplice to the crime and therefore, a criminal.

Um, you apparently have a comprehension issue to deal with. They are a victim if the gun is stolen. Period. If they know it and do not report it, they have, at this time done nothing worng. If the law is passed, and they must report it and do not, then, and only then, are they in violation of a law. As it stands they are still a victim. So, pass it, and then... And just how is it the stolen gun comes back wiseass? It doesn't. So in essence, we make a criminal out of a victim, and nothing is done to get the stolen weapon off the street. As for the NRA and its followers, be specific, name one, try not to be overly general. I'll bet you have a hard time coming up with a name. Most I know detest crime and criminals. But, since you hook to the net in Jersey, go there or stay there. They do not permit such lax oversight there, huh? Crime is real low there, huh? Damend, repeat 3rd grade.

[Chatty Cathy]

2Aalltheway wrote:

The way I see it, there are 4 types of 2nd Amendment folks. I'm guessing there are other variations, but for me, I see this:
1. Those who are serious about their 2nd Amendment rights, right down to legally owning, carrying and continually educating themeselves regarding their rights AND their knowledge base on the laws and appropriate handling of their firearm. These are the same people who hope to never have to use their firearm in self defense of their person, or their family. These people take classes on gun safety, practice accuracy, attend trainings, and go through make believe scenarios so if ever in a self defense situation, both victim, and believe it or not, the criminal may live to see the next day.
2. Those who are for 2nd Amendment rights, but choose not to own/carry a firearm.(This is not the same as an 'anti' firearm person, they just for some reason or another choose not to enact their 2nd Amendment right).
3**. Those who think every gun manufactured is manufactured soley for an individual who hopes they get to use it to 'get the bad guy'; and think if you stare at a gun long enough it will go off and injure somebody; think unarming everybody will solve crime/murder. Also known as an 'anti', these people are uneducated with firearms, and take every extreme opportunity to make it about ALL firearm owners (i.e. Columbine; VA Tech) Let's face it folks, in those types of instances, people are just freaks of nature and no amount of "Government control" is going to stand in their way.
**These are actually the dangerous people. Anti's are of the belief that if you take all the guns away, crime will be solved, there will be no home invasion, there will be no murders, crime as it is known to man will cease to exist. The mere sight of a gun has them trembling and fearing for the safety of anybody in the vicinity.(Just as a side note: You have to load the gun and pull the trigger for a gun to off -- simply seeing one will not make it go bang.)
4. Lastly, you have the criminal. Those who have to steal firearms or buy them on the street because they have lost their 2nd Amendment rights. The average criminal is usually ignorant on how a firearm operates; ignorant about cleaning and maintaining a firearm; and has little to no education regarding firearms. Probably never fired a bullet from the firearm they are in possession of until it kills somebody during their crime. These people don't care about their victim, and they don't ever think they will get caught. They are short-sighted with any consequences past the instant gratification they get from stealing your money, robbing your house, or raping.
Now that we got the definitions laid out, who are you? Who will you side with when our politicians come to take away your rights?
Me, you ask? From my cold dead hand.
Bye Trish, you fought a good fight, or should I say a dirty fight?

Well put!

[Chatty Cathy]

whatheheck wrote:

They want to get ILLEGAL guns off the street!
The NRA and its followers can't quite seem to come to grips with the fact that those ILLEGAL guns are killing LEGAL people!
And by the way Cathy, when the gun is stolen, the owner is a victim. If they don't report it and the gun is used to kill someone, then they cease being a victim have made themselves an accomplice to the crime and therefore, a criminal.

At this time,it is not a crime to not report (and as I said, I support reporting). If you make it a law, and a person does not report, they are in violation of the law and it makes them a criminal. So we ultimately turn a victim into a criminal and feel good about it...at least some will. Now, pay attention: This has done nothing to take an illegal gun off the steeet. Not one thing. but we have found a victim/criminal to beat. So what is the point. Since you come to the site from NJ, they have strict laws there and crime is minimal, huh? hard to get gun ownership license, huh? And heaven knows, criminals line up to turn in stolen guns. If you live there, stay there--you my friend are safe. If you do not, move there and be safe.
We all know how guns are used to kill people and we mostly all detest it. But go back to logic class. This law is more BS and does not do anything of significance. Love me or hate me...you know I am right. You just wanna feel good. Have at it.

[ionfield]

whatheheck wrote:

They want to get ILLEGAL guns off the street!
The NRA and its followers can't quite seem to come to grips with the fact that those ILLEGAL guns are killing LEGAL people!
And by the way Cathy, when the gun is stolen, the owner is a victim. If they don't report it and the gun is used to kill someone, then they cease being a victim have made themselves an accomplice to the crime and therefore, a criminal.

.

I too guess it has to be said once again, guns do not kill people, people kill people. The gun is just a tool as is a knife, a baseball bat, or a car, all of which can be used to kill people.

So, by your reasoning, whatheheck, if your car is stolen and you do not immediately report it and it is used to kill someone then you also are an accomplice to that crime. Really?

.

[ionfield]

Who is going to determine exactly when a gun is stolen? A stolen gun that is rarely used and put away may not be discovered missing for months after the fact. Will the gun owner be believed? How could you even enforce such a law?

How will reporting a stolen gun within 24 hours of becoming aware that it is stolen, like that of the Pittsburg ordinance, remove illegal guns from the streets? How would the mayor propose that stolen guns be found and removed from the streets before the gun is used in a crime?

Also, in case Mayor Ward has not been informed, PA has a state firearm law that prohibits cities from regulating firearms, which this law would do. If a law is passed requiring guns be reported stolen within 24 hours, is Lebanon in a position to defend the law?

Does the City of Lebanon have the funds available to spend tens-of-thousands of dollars or much more in attorneys and court costs defending the law including the inevitable appeals that would be made? Philadelphia’s stolen gun ordinance was ruled to be unenforceable by a State Commonwealth Court and is already heading to the state Supreme Court. Is Lebanon ready to do the same?

Mayor Ward purports to be a gun-rights advocate, but her position appears to be one of wanting to eventually eliminate all guns from everyone, and Second Amendment rights be damned.

[galvodog6]

2Aalltheway wrote:

<quoted text>
I disagree.
Guns don't kill people either, people kill people.
I could very easily take the iPod cord and strangle you with it.
iPods don't kill people, people kill people.

but what is the purpose of an ipod and what is the purpose of a gun

[2Aalltheway]

galvodog6 wrote:

<quoted text>
but what is the purpose of an ipod and what is the purpose of a gun

I guess it depends on who you ask, eh?

An iPod serves me NO purpose. My gun serves me well. I have no desire to own or listen to an iPod. In my opinion, they are not useful, needed, and cause people to go deaf.

However, I'm not calling on the government to infringe on your right to shuffle your tunes just because I think they're useless.

Guns or Ipods don't kill people, people kill people.

The "purpose" of an umbrella is to keep me dry from the rain, but there have been many deaths due to a beating with an umbrella. I gotta tell ya, I've never seen an umbrella stand up, cross the room, and beat a man to death. NOT.ONCE.

I guess that means umbrellas don't kill people, people kill people.

[james]

whatheheck wrote:

They want to get ILLEGAL guns off the street!
The NRA and its followers can't quite seem to come to grips with the fact that those ILLEGAL guns are killing LEGAL people!
And by the way Cathy, when the gun is stolen, the owner is a victim. If they don't report it and the gun is used to kill someone, then they cease being a victim have made themselves an accomplice to the crime and therefore, a criminal.

So if someone steals your car, then robs a bank and runs someone over are you an accomplice