Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#23 Mar 20, 2013
The M0untains V0ice wrote:
While I agree with the original tenants and theme of the original posters message, and many that follow, and cannot help but properly note that the radical right wing nutjobs launched uncounted carnage and sick evil acts of war -

--- i see the left wing democratic president bankrupting the country in his own way, and slowly eliminating freedoms, feeding the electronic beast, setting the stage for use of drones in our own borders etc.

This entire scene sorrows me in 2 ways. In one it is like watching people who are doomed to be stuck in the bitterness of history forever, akin to rednneck monkies waving rebel flags and claiming the South Shall Rise Again, unable to release an issue already past. In the 2nd it is simply a reminder that both Republicans and Democrats alike are stuck in an endless cycle of mindless and futile manipulations - like mentally retarded simians, only able to hear the mindless babble coming from the other side, and never able to recognize their own.

Oh My, they cannot even see that to fight evil begins in there own back yard. Always the wicked see first the evil of others.

Peace,
- david
aka The Mountains Voice

* And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
As we experience,(not celebrate), the tenth anniversary of the greatest debacle in modern American history, we must hold who created and profited from their criminal malfeasance accountable.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

Already, War Mongers and the War Profiteers seek to "re-invent" history to conceal their perfidy. Rummy recently denied claiming he knew the exact whereabouts of nuclear weapons, or that the War couldn't last more than a few months - even when the video of his making those exact claims was playing in the background.

Liars - Lie; and true patriots must call liars on their lies, or the lie lives on.

While the lies, the prevarications, and the collusions are fresh in our minds, accountability can be had, and the next Vietnam and the next Iraq, avoided by sane and rational thought.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#24 Mar 20, 2013
The M0untains V0ice wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
...Oh My, they cannot even see that to fight evil begins in there own back yard. Always the wicked see first the evil of others.
Thank you for providing such a fine example of this two edged sword, funny how that perspective thing works.

Remember, it's all about marketing.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#25 Mar 20, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
...Already, War Mongers and the War Profiteers seek to "re-invent" history to conceal their perfidy. Rummy recently denied claiming he knew the exact whereabouts of nuclear weapons, or that the War couldn't last more than a few months - even when the video of his making those exact claims was playing in the background.
Liars - Lie; and true patriots must call liars on their lies, or the lie lives on.
While the lies, the prevarications, and the collusions are fresh in our minds, accountability can be had, and the next Vietnam and the next Iraq, avoided by sane and rational thought.
What I Didn't Find in Africa
By Joseph C. Wilson 4th
Published: July 06, 2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/opinion/wha...

...But were these dangers the same ones the administration told us about? We have to find out. America's foreign policy depends on the sanctity of its information. For this reason, questioning the selective use of intelligence to justify the war in Iraq is neither idle sniping nor ''revisionist history,'' as Mr. Bush has suggested. The act of war is the last option of a democracy, taken when there is a grave threat to our national security. More than 200 American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq already. We have a duty to ensure that their sacrifice came for the right reasons.
Informed Opinion

Alva, FL

#26 Mar 20, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>What I Didn't Find in Africa
By Joseph C. Wilson 4th
Published: July 06, 2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/opinion/wha...

...But were these dangers the same ones the administration told us about? We have to find out. America's foreign policy depends on the sanctity of its information. For this reason, questioning the selective use of intelligence to justify the war in Iraq is neither idle sniping nor ''revisionist history,'' as Mr. Bush has suggested. The act of war is the last option of a democracy, taken when there is a grave threat to our national security. More than 200 American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq already. We have a duty to ensure that their sacrifice came for the right reasons.
Damn that Wilson fella.

Telling the truth about the liars who manipulated us into an illegal war that bankrupted the country and killed thousands of Marines.

Cheney to Bush :

I know what we'll do.

We'll leak the fact that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a covert CIA officer. That ought to scare Wilson into shutting up and help us keep our lies alive.

Sure we'll be committing a federal felony,(and an act of treason), and causing the death of CIA agents associated with Plame but hey, we're Co-Presidents - and we can get away with anything cause Right Wingers believe facts are boring anyway.

Of course it's idiotic to be committing treason and lying our way into war - at the same time we accuse anyone else of anything - but hey, Right Wingers will buy anything - if you wave the flag and accuse someone if being a leeeeeeeeeeeeberal.
Bored

Blairsville, GA

#27 Mar 20, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Damn that Wilson fella.
Telling the truth about the liars who manipulated us into an illegal war that bankrupted the country and killed thousands of Marines.
Cheney to Bush :
I know what we'll do.
We'll leak the fact that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a covert CIA officer. That ought to scare Wilson into shutting up and help us keep our lies alive.
Sure we'll be committing a federal felony,(and an act of treason), and causing the death of CIA agents associated with Plame but hey, we're Co-Presidents - and we can get away with anything cause Right Wingers believe facts are boring anyway.
Of course it's idiotic to be committing treason and lying our way into war - at the same time we accuse anyone else of anything - but hey, Right Wingers will buy anything - if you wave the flag and accuse someone if being a leeeeeeeeeeeeberal.
Boring.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#28 Mar 21, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
...We'll leak the fact that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a covert CIA officer. That ought to scare Wilson into shutting up and help us keep our lies alive.
What Valerie Plame Really Did at the CIA
David Corn September 6, 2006
This article appeared in the September 18, 2006 edition of The Nation.
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-valerie... #

In the spring of 2002 Dick Cheney made one of his periodic trips to CIA headquarters. Officers and analysts were summoned to brief him on Iraq. Paramilitary specialists updated the Vice President on an extensive covert action program in motion that was designed to pave the way to a US invasion. Cheney questioned analysts about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. How could they be used against US troops? Which Iraqi units had chemical and biological weapons? He was not seeking information on whether Saddam posed a threat because he possessed such weapons. His queries, according to a CIA officer at the briefing, were pegged to the assumptions that Iraq had these weapons and would be invaded--as if a decision had been made.

Though Cheney was already looking toward war, the officers of the agency's Joint Task Force on Iraq--part of the Counterproliferation Division of the agency's clandestine Directorate of Operations--were frantically toiling away in the basement, mounting espionage operations to gather information on the WMD programs Iraq might have. The JTFI was trying to find evidence that would back up the White House's assertion that Iraq was a WMD danger. Its chief of operations was a career undercover officer named Valerie Wilson.

...Valerie Wilson was no analyst or paper-pusher. She was an operations officer working on a top priority of the Bush Administration. Armitage, Rove and Libby had revealed information about a CIA officer who had searched for proof of the President's case. In doing so, they harmed her career and put at risk operations she had worked on and foreign agents and sources she had handled.

...Come the spring of 2001, she was in the CPD's modest Iraq branch. But that summer--before 9/11--word came down from the brass: We're ramping up on Iraq. Her unit was expanded and renamed the Joint Task Force on Iraq. Within months of 9/11, the JTFI grew to fifty or so employees. Valerie Wilson was placed in charge of its operations group.

...The JTFI found nothing. The few scientists it managed to reach insisted Saddam had no WMD programs. Task force officers sent reports detailing the denials into the CIA bureaucracy. The defectors were duds--fabricators and embellishers.(JTFI officials came to suspect that some had been sent their way by Ahmad Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, an exile group that desired a US invasion of Iraq.) The results were frustrating for the officers. Were they not doing their job well enough--or did Saddam not have an arsenal of unconventional weapons?

...When the war started in March 2003, JTFI officers were disappointed. "I felt like we ran out of time," one CIA officer recalled. "The war came so suddenly. We didn't have enough information to challenge the assumption that there were WMDs.... How do you know it's a dry well? That Saddam was constrained. Given more time, we could have worked through the issue.... From 9/11 to the war--eighteen months--that was not enough time to get a good answer to this important question."

When the Novak column ran, Valerie Wilson was in the process of changing her clandestine status from NOC to official cover, as she prepared for a new job in personnel management. Her aim, she told colleagues, was to put in time as an administrator--to rise up a notch or two--and then return to secret operations. But with her cover blown, she could never be undercover again.
Hindsight

Dawsonville, GA

#29 Mar 21, 2013
The ten year anniversary of the invasion of Iraq is now providing one of those rare moments when the corporate media takes time for a few stories about that part of the “war on terror.” One focus is, as Stephen Zunes puts it at TruthOut, Democrats Share the Blame for Tragedy of Iraq War.

The Democrats who voted to support the war and rationalized that vote by making false claims about Iraq’s WMD programs – a minority of Democrats, but much over-represented in Democratic leadership councils – were responsible for allowing the Bush administration to get away with lying about Iraq’s alleged threat.

Had the “Democratic-controlled Senate” not voted to “authorize” what Zunes (among others) calls an “illegal and unnecessary war and occupation”; had they, and other Electeds and appointees who supported the war, heeded the warnings provided through “many scores of policy reports, newspaper articles, academic journals and other sources”; had the Patriot Act mindset not prevailed, then perhaps “the tragic consequences of a US invasion of Iraq” could have been avoided. Zunes writes:

The Democrats who voted to support the war and rationalized that vote by making false claims about Iraq’s WMD programs were responsible for allowing the Bush administration to get away with lying about Iraq’s alleged threat.

Among others, Zunes lists John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Harry Reid.

It is also important to recognize that not everyone in Congress voted to authorize the invasion. There were the 21 Senate Democrats – along with one Republican and one Independent – who voted against the war resolution. And 126 of 207 House Democrats voted against the resolution as well. In total, then, a majority of Democrats in Congress defied their leadership by saying no to war.

He concludes:(emphasis added)

…(S)upport for the resolution authorizing the Iraq War is not something that can simply be forgotten. There is no reason to be any more forgiving of Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, or Harry Reid than we are of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, or Condoleezza Rice.
Hindsight

Dawsonville, GA

#30 Mar 21, 2013

Two other pieces to check out: At TruthOut, Robert Jensen writes Important Truths Behind an Anti-War Slogan.

…(C)onservatives demand ideological allegiance to the idea that the U.S. is a uniquely benevolent great power that doesn’t go to war for economic reasons, and centrist/liberals play along, sometimes repeating the same ‘mainstream trope’ and other times remaining strategically silent.

Whether some policymakers internalize this mythology so thoroughly that they believe it—and no doubt some do—the rhetoric doesn’t prevent the U.S. from acting on the long-term goal of maximizing influence over the (Middle East) region.

And at Common Dreams, Andrea Germanos provides comments from a number of “voices offering perspective on the anniversary and lead-up to the (Iraq) invasion” in 10 Years After Iraq Invasion: Continued Myths, Hundreds of Thousands Killed.

While many mark March 19, 2003 as the day the U.S.-led invasion of the country began, crippling sanctions against Iraq began more than a decade before. And while the George W. Bush administration launched the war, it found willing partners in the Democratic party and corporate media.

Among those Germanos quotes:

Arundhati Roy,“writer and global justice activist”:

When the United States invaded Iraq, a New York Times/CBS News survey estimated that 42 percent of the American public believed that Saddam Hussein was directly responsible for the September 11th attacks …. And an ABC News poll said that 55 percent of Americans believed that Saddam Hussein directly supported al-Qaeda. None of this opinion is based on evidence, because there isn’t any.… Public support in the U.S. for the war against Iraq was founded on a multitiered edifice of falsehood and deceit, coordinated by the U.S. government and faithfully amplified by the corporate media.

Hans Blix,“head of U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq in the lead-up to the 2003 invasion”:

The war aimed to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, but there weren’t any.

The war aimed to eliminate al Qaeda in Iraq, but the terrorist group didn’t exist in the country until after the invasion.

Sam Husseini,“director for the Institute for Public Accuracy”:

It’s common to simply blame Bush and Cheney for the Iraq war, but it’s not accurate. Many voted for or otherwise backed the Iraq war ….

The elevation of Democrats who did not seriously question the war likely facilitated Bush and Cheney never being held accountable for their conduct.

Norman Solomon,“author, co-founder of RootsAction.org and founding director of the Institute for Public Accuracy”:

Ten years after the invasion of Iraq, don’t expect the vast numbers of media hotshots and U.S. officials who propelled that catastrophe to utter a word of regret. Many are busy with another project: assisting the push for war on Iran.

Recalling Zunes’ warning that the “resolution authorizing the Iraq War is not something that can simply be forgotten”; and thinking of Syria and Iran, not to mention the realities of daily life in Iraq and Afghanistan; thinking of significantly increased use of weaponized drones; thinking of kill lists and Gitmo and the U.S. military build-up in Africa … it seems a great deal can, in fact, be “forgotten.”
Hindsight

Dawsonville, GA

#31 Mar 21, 2013
For a good background source to the leadup to the Iraq war, read Tom Clancy's fourth novel in his Commander series titled "Battle Ready".

Iraq was a series of problems left over from Bush I, continued during Clinton's terms in office, led to Bush II declaring war on Iraq, still in a mess under Obama, and we still don't see an end.

There are no answers for the middle east, as there are no answers for people's hatred in the world.
Scott

Cleveland, GA

#32 Mar 21, 2013
Did Bush really lie about WMD's in IraQ?

OUr own inteliigence (CIA) said Iraq had them.

Bill Clinton, when he was President said Iraq had them.

The United Nations said Iraq had them.

Russian Intelligence said IraQ had them.

British Intelligence said Iraq had them.

Saddam Hussein said Iraq had them.

Bush and Colin Powel appealed to the UN on 2 sepaate occasions to do something about Iraq and their shooting at our planes or we would. The UN did nothing because Kofi Anan and his son were getting big payoffs from Iraq in the food for oil program.

Then, yes, the Democrats approved the war. Why? Hillary said if she knew then what she knows now she wouldn't have voted for it. John Kerry said he voted for it before he voted against it. Huh?

Now, the chemical and biological weapons in Syria are those which Iraq moved across the border ither before or shortly after war broke out.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#33 Mar 21, 2013
Hindsight wrote:
...Iraq was a series of problems left over from Bush I, continued during Clinton's terms in office, led to Bush II declaring war on Iraq, still in a mess under Obama, and we still don't see an end.
Perhaps you can identify other nations with long running problems that can benefit from the solution applied in Iraq, which wasn't a solution at all.

While the media and Democrats were not critically assessing the narrative being pushed, should we ignore who was pushing the narrative.
Scott

Cleveland, GA

#34 Mar 21, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you can identify other nations with long running problems that can benefit from the solution applied in Iraq, which wasn't a solution at all.
While the media and Democrats were not critically assessing the narrative being pushed, should we ignore who was pushing the narrative.
It would be very similar to the narritive being pushed by the present administration, would it not?

Also, we can never count on the media critically assessing anything, can we? We should, however, abe able to count on those who we elect to simply do their jobs, whether Democrat or Republicn.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#35 Mar 21, 2013
Scott wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
It would be very similar to the narritive being pushed by the present administration, would it not?
Also, we can never count on the media critically assessing anything, can we? We should, however, abe able to count on those who we elect to simply do their jobs, whether Democrat or Republicn.
"It would be very similar to the narritive being pushed by the present administration, would it not?"

I don't know, what drums of war is the current Administration beating?

Never is a very long time, some people will do their job and others will not regardless of their profession.

Molly Ivins
August 22 2002
http://www.creators.com/opinion/molly-ivins/m...

AUSTIN, Texas — Here we are playing hawks and doves again on the matter on Iraq — war or no war?— with particularly peppy exchanges from our more excitable brethren on the right concerning "appeasement" and lack of patriotism on the part of anyone who isn't ready to nuke Baghdad now. Bubba and Joe Bob have a question: "Why don't we git Oh-sama Bin first?"

...Hard to find a soul in this country who doesn't think getting rid of Saddam Hussein is a good idea, but there are lots of people wondering why it's up to us to do it, and also asking, "What happens then?"

...Joseph Nye argues in his new book, "The Paradox of American Power: Why the World's Only Superpower Can't Go It Alone," that anti-Americanism thrives on the perception that we don't give a rat's behind how the rest of the world feels about anything. That's the famous "arrogance" for which we get criticized.

On that count, a war with Iraq could play right into terrorist hands. It's apparent that our ally Saudi Arabia has a far stronger connection to Sept. 11 than our enemy Saddam Hussein, so attacking Hussein makes us look like hypocrites willing to sell out our foreign policy for oil. That we'd also have to kill a whole of lot of innocent Iraqis (next guy who uses the words "precision bombing" has to eat them) should count for more than it probably does with all those hard-nosed Bush foreign policy advisers who have never seen war.

...Since terrorism flourishes in the "failed states," why not support international efforts to get these wretched places on their feet? There was a poll of foreign affairs experts and scholars at the end of the 20th century, and it found widespread agreement that the single most effective American foreign policy effort of the century was the Marshall Plan. Seems to me the lesson of Sept. 11 is that we cannot afford to ignore what the rest of the world thinks.
Scott

Cleveland, GA

#36 Mar 21, 2013
I don't know, what drums of war is the current Administration beating?

Well.....there is Iran and Syria and North Korea and Somalia and Arizona.

Then there is the war on women, the war on properity, the war on business, the war on chubbies, the war on Fox News, the war on criticism, the war on rich people, the war oncorporte jet owners, the war on health care providers, the war on coal producers..........
Conservative

Dawsonville, GA

#37 Mar 21, 2013
Scott wrote:
I don't know, what drums of war is the current Administration beating?
Well.....there is Iran and Syria and North Korea and Somalia and Arizona.
Then there is the war on women, the war on properity, the war on business, the war on chubbies, the war on Fox News, the war on criticism, the war on rich people, the war oncorporte jet owners, the war on health care providers, the war on coal producers..........
Liberals don't understand those concepts.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#38 Mar 21, 2013
Silencing Donahue and Anti-War Voices
January 15, 2012

PD: Well, I think we signed on in August [2002] and I was gone in February of the following year which is a month before the invasion. MSNBC and its corporate parent, General Electric, were not at all pleased with my anti-war position. And I was outspoken about it.

And a memo was released, and printed by the New York Times from a consultant hired by NBC News.“Donahue appears to take delight in his anti-war stance.” See how we’re marginalized there,“delight.” So I not only opposed the war, I was, I delighted in.…. I mean what kind of crass person am I?

They’re so clever. The propaganda campaign that’s been leveled against the so-called liberal voice. By the way, we’re not liberal anymore, we’re progressive. We’re actually ashamed of our own name, liberal. The political idea that dare not speak its name.

So, I just, I noticed that the more I got into this the more I realized what I had learned from Norman. How easy it is to go to war, especially if you have corporate media on your side. And you can bet, that if there is another war, corporate media will be on the side of the establishment. It’s not good for business to oppose a war.

People who oppose wars are scolds, nobody likes a scold. They are crabby, they don’t love America. And how can you oppose a war when a president is ramping up for one? You embarrass the president in front of the world, and the people that we’re trying to overcome here, and you’re disrespectful to the troops.

So we’ve sent how many thousands and thousands of Americans to fight for our freedom, including free speech, and when we need it the most, at a time when a president [is starting a war], we have millions of people in this country who believe it’s unpatriotic to not support the president. That’s why, that’s how war is made easy. It’s amazing.

And then if you, if you scare the people you can move an entire population. George Bush took this nation by the ear and led it into the sword, and we let it happen. It’s amazing what you can do if you scare the people. And corporate media will always be on the side of whatever the White House wants to do. They don’t want anybody mad.

I mean imagine the money that General Electric makes out of just these defense contracts. And Donahue is on the air making fun of [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld. It’s counterintuitive for them to want to have me on their television program. When the board of directors went to their country clubs I am sure their golf buddies said “What the hell are you doing with Donahue on the…?”

And this is, this is 2002. The Iraq War resolution was October 2002, this was less than a year from the [9/11] towers. And Bush called for the Iraq resolution two weeks before an election. Only 23 senators voted “No.” Twenty-three.[One-hundred-and- thirty-three] House members voted “No.” This resolution passed overwhelmingly on lies. It wasn’t true. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and there are, I’m betting you, I can’t prove this, there are millions and millions of Americans who today, believe he did.
Bored

Dawsonville, GA

#39 Mar 21, 2013
Oh my wrote:
Silencing Donahue and Anti-War Voices
January 15, 2012
PD: Well, I think we signed on in August [2002] and I was gone in February of the following year which is a month before the invasion. MSNBC and its corporate parent, General Electric, were not at all pleased with my anti-war position. And I was outspoken about it.
And a memo was released, and printed by the New York Times from a consultant hired by NBC News.“Donahue appears to take delight in his anti-war stance.” See how we’re marginalized there,“delight.” So I not only opposed the war, I was, I delighted in.…. I mean what kind of crass person am I?
They’re so clever. The propaganda campaign that’s been leveled against the so-called liberal voice. By the way, we’re not liberal anymore, we’re progressive. We’re actually ashamed of our own name, liberal. The political idea that dare not speak its name.
So, I just, I noticed that the more I got into this the more I realized what I had learned from Norman. How easy it is to go to war, especially if you have corporate media on your side. And you can bet, that if there is another war, corporate media will be on the side of the establishment. It’s not good for business to oppose a war.
People who oppose wars are scolds, nobody likes a scold. They are crabby, they don’t love America. And how can you oppose a war when a president is ramping up for one? You embarrass the president in front of the world, and the people that we’re trying to overcome here, and you’re disrespectful to the troops.
So we’ve sent how many thousands and thousands of Americans to fight for our freedom, including free speech, and when we need it the most, at a time when a president [is starting a war], we have millions of people in this country who believe it’s unpatriotic to not support the president. That’s why, that’s how war is made easy. It’s amazing.
And then if you, if you scare the people you can move an entire population. George Bush took this nation by the ear and led it into the sword, and we let it happen. It’s amazing what you can do if you scare the people. And corporate media will always be on the side of whatever the White House wants to do. They don’t want anybody mad.
I mean imagine the money that General Electric makes out of just these defense contracts. And Donahue is on the air making fun of [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld. It’s counterintuitive for them to want to have me on their television program. When the board of directors went to their country clubs I am sure their golf buddies said “What the hell are you doing with Donahue on the…?”
And this is, this is 2002. The Iraq War resolution was October 2002, this was less than a year from the [9/11] towers. And Bush called for the Iraq resolution two weeks before an election. Only 23 senators voted “No.” Twenty-three.[One-hundred-and- thirty-three] House members voted “No.” This resolution passed overwhelmingly on lies. It wasn’t true. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and there are, I’m betting you, I can’t prove this, there are millions and millions of Americans who today, believe he did.
Boring.
Informed Opinion

Alva, FL

#40 Mar 21, 2013
Oh my wrote:
Silencing Donahue and Anti-War Voices
January 15, 2012

PD: Well, I think we signed on in August [2002] and I was gone in February of the following year which is a month before the invasion. MSNBC and its corporate parent, General Electric, were not at all pleased with my anti-war position. And I was outspoken about it.

And a memo was released, and printed by the New York Times from a consultant hired by NBC News.“Donahue appears to take delight in his anti-war stance.” See how we’re marginalized there,“delight.” So I not only opposed the war, I was, I delighted in.…. I mean what kind of crass person am I?

TheyÂ’re so clever. The propaganda campaign thatÂ’s been leveled against the so-called liberal voice. By the way, weÂ’re not liberal anymore, weÂ’re progressive. WeÂ’re actually ashamed of our own name, liberal. The political idea that dare not speak its name.

So, I just, I noticed that the more I got into this the more I realized what I had learned from Norman. How easy it is to go to war, especially if you have corporate media on your side. And you can bet, that if there is another war, corporate media will be on the side of the establishment. ItÂ’s not good for business to oppose a war.

People who oppose wars are scolds, nobody likes a scold. They are crabby, they donÂ’t love America. And how can you oppose a war when a president is ramping up for one? You embarrass the president in front of the world, and the people that weÂ’re trying to overcome here, and youÂ’re disrespectful to the troops.

So weÂ’ve sent how many thousands and thousands of Americans to fight for our freedom, including free speech, and when we need it the most, at a time when a president [is starting a war], we have millions of people in this country who believe itÂ’s unpatriotic to not support the president. ThatÂ’s why, thatÂ’s how war is made easy. ItÂ’s amazing.

And then if you, if you scare the people you can move an entire population. George Bush took this nation by the ear and led it into the sword, and we let it happen. ItÂ’s amazing what you can do if you scare the people. And corporate media will always be on the side of whatever the White House wants to do. They donÂ’t want anybody mad.

I mean imagine the money that General Electric makes out of just these defense contracts. And Donahue is on the air making fun of [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld. It’s counterintuitive for them to want to have me on their television program. When the board of directors went to their country clubs I am sure their golf buddies said “What the hell are you doing with Donahue on the…?”

And this is, this is 2002. The Iraq War resolution was October 2002, this was less than a year from the [9/11] towers. And Bush called for the Iraq resolution two weeks before an election. Only 23 senators voted “No.” Twenty-three.[One-hundred-and- thirty-three] House members voted “No.” This resolution passed overwhelmingly on lies. It wasn’t true. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and there are, I’m betting you, I can’t prove this, there are millions and millions of Americans who today, believe he did.
Great post.

If you're a Right Wing ChickenHawk, then accountability sucks.

Progressive

Dawsonville, GA

#41 Mar 22, 2013
Believe it or not—and I suspect most readers will not—there's a liberal war on science. Say what?

We are well aware of the Republican war on science from the eponymous 2006 book (Basic Books) by Chris Mooney, and I have castigated conservatives myself in my 2006 book Why Darwin Matters (Henry Holt) for their erroneous belief that the theory of evolution leads to a breakdown of morality. A 2012 Gallup poll found that “58 percent of Republicans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years,” compared with 41 percent of Democrats. A 2011 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 81 percent of Democrats but only 49 percent of Republicans believe that Earth is getting warmer. Many conservatives seem to grant early-stage embryos a moral standing that is higher than that of adults suffering from debilitating diseases potentially curable through stem cells. And most recently, Missouri Republican senatorial candidate Todd Akin gaffed on the ability of women's bodies to avoid pregnancy in the event of a “legitimate rape.” It gets worse.

The left's war on science begins with the stats cited above: 41 percent of Democrats are young Earth creationists, and 19 percent doubt that Earth is getting warmer. These numbers do not exactly bolster the common belief that liberals are the people of the science book. In addition, consider “cognitive creationists”—whom I define as those who accept the theory of evolution for the human body but not the brain. As Harvard University psychologist Steven Pinker documents in his 2002 book The Blank Slate (Viking), belief in the mind as a tabula rasa shaped almost entirely by culture has been mostly the mantra of liberal intellectuals, who in the 1980s and 1990s led an all-out assault against evolutionary psychology via such Orwellian-named far-left groups as Science for the People, for proffering the now uncontroversial idea that human thought and behavior are at least partially the result of our evolutionary past.

There is more, and recent, antiscience fare from far-left progressives, documented in the 2012 book Science Left Behind (PublicAffairs) by science journalists Alex B. Berezow and Hank Campbell, who note that “if it is true that conservatives have declared a war on science, then progressives have declared Armageddon.” On energy issues, for example, the authors contend that progressive liberals tend to be antinuclear because of the waste-disposal problem, anti–fossil fuels because of global warming, antihydroelectric because dams disrupt river ecosystems, and anti–wind power because of avian fatalities. The underlying current is “everything natural is good” and “everything unnatural is bad.”

Whereas conservatives obsess over the purity and sanctity of sex, the left's sacred values seem fixated on the environment, leading to an almost religious fervor over the purity and sanctity of air, water and especially food. Try having a conversation with a liberal progressive about GMOs—genetically modified organisms—in which the words “Monsanto” and “profit” are not dropped like syllogistic bombs. Comedian Bill Maher, for example, on his HBO Real Time show on October 19, 2012, asked Stonyfield Farm CEO Gary Hirshberg if he would rate Monsanto as a 10 (“evil”) or an 11 (“f—ing evil”)? The fact is that we've been genetically modifying organisms for 10,000 years through breeding and selection. It's the only way to feed billions of people.
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#42 Mar 22, 2013
Progressive wrote:
Believe it or not—and I suspect most readers will not—there's a liberal war on science. Say what?

We are well aware of the Republican war on science from the eponymous 2006 book (Basic Books) by Chris Mooney, and I have castigated conservatives myself in my 2006 book Why Darwin Matters (Henry Holt) for their erroneous belief that the theory of evolution leads to a breakdown of morality. A 2012 Gallup poll found that “58 percent of Republicans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years,” compared with 41 percent of Democrats. A 2011 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 81 percent of Democrats but only 49 percent of Republicans believe that Earth is getting warmer. Many conservatives seem to grant early-stage embryos a moral standing that is higher than that of adults suffering from debilitating diseases potentially curable through stem ....

The left's war on we've been genetically modifying organisms for 10,000 years through breeding and selection. It's the only way to feed billions of people.
Great post.

It seems extremists almost always tend toward the irrational.

One point on which we disagree is the extent upon which we need to damage the earth, reduce our length and the quality of our lives, and squander our resources in order to "feed the planet".

We subsidize hormone laden, carcinogenic, genetically mutated, chemically saturated, low quality, high caloric food, because it profitable to the producers, and popular to the masses.

ADM, General Mills, and Monsanto, love politicians - and politicians, cardiac surgeons, and endocrinologists love ADM, General Mills and Monsanto.

Then we are "surprised" when we produce a society of obese, diabetic, malnourished, chronically ill adults and children.

As for food supplies - we are drowning in food. We produce so much food we have to loan money to other countries and coerce them to use the funds to buy our excess food. As an example, we forced Haiti to import food from our surpluses resulting in the destruction their agriculture system. Haiti went from exporting food to importing food severely adding to its economic woes.

See "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" an autobiography by John Perkins.

If we subsidized healthy foods and deincentivized sugar, fat, hormone, and chemically laden foods we, and our children would be healthier, smarter, and live longer.

But where would that leave ADM, General Mills, Monsanto, etc., and all those politicians who survive on their bribes ... er... contributions.

Just my thoughts.

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