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William

Birmingham, AL

#21 Feb 2, 2013
William is teaching two different gospels.

One for the Jews and a totally different gospel for the Gentiles.

Note (Gal. 1:6-9)

There WERE two gospels present during the time when Peter and Paul were both alive. Peter, James, and John confined their ministry to believing Israel (the circumcision) while Paul went to the uncircumcision. Galatians 2 and Acts 15 (in a KJV) makes this clear.

When Paul makes his statement in Galatians 1 about an accursed gospel, that is in reference to the gospel of the grace of God. Also known as HIS gospel, that he refers to 3 times in his epistles as HIS gospel. He says that man will be judged by it in Romans 2:16.

You may not like it, but the Bible is clear to the Bible reader who reads it with the holy spirit as his or teacher.

There is only ONE gospel in effect for us today. What is that gospel?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Christ died FOR OUR SINS. Was buried. Was resurrected FOR OUR justification.

The only thing that will send a person to hell today is their rejection of the gospel. It cannot be added to, modified, or otherwise perverted, or else it has no power to save. You must hear, believe, and TRUST what was done for you at Calvary.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#22 Feb 2, 2013
The word of God disagrees with you W. You seem to have a very hard time saying one must OBEY the gospel to be saved. Let's see what God says about the matter.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2Thess.1:7-9)

In flaming fire taking vengeance

on them that know not God,

and that obey not the gospel

Let's look at another scripture which teaches one must "obey" something BEFORE they can be saved.

(Rom. 6:16-18)

16. Decide who to serve.

17. Obey that form of doctrine.

18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.(become a Christian)

One more thing -

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(James 2:24)

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone (James 2:17)

The denominations are teaching what will save you is a dead faith. That sounds just like what Satan told Eve. Satan told Eve just the opposite of what God said to her.

Here the denominations are telling people they can be saved by faith "alone". Yet we can read in two scriptures they are teaching a "dead" faith and a "dead" faith can save no one.

Don't you believe the word of God W?

theancientplan.com
William

Birmingham, AL

#23 Feb 2, 2013
One OBEYS the gospel of Jesus Christ when one TRUSTS the gospel of Jesus Christ for their salvation.

James isn't written to you or me. See James 1:1 for who it was written to. The 12 tribes of Israel, scattered abroad.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#24 Feb 4, 2013
William wrote:
One OBEYS the gospel of Jesus Christ when one TRUSTS the gospel of Jesus Christ for their salvation.
James isn't written to you or me. See James 1:1 for who it was written to. The 12 tribes of Israel, scattered abroad.
you're in a difficult spot W. On one hand you want to hold on to the faith "only" plan of salvation but you know the bible says one must obey the gospel to be saved. So you claim faith alone is being obedient to God. That is not correct.

In (Jn 12:42) some people believed but did not confess b/c they feared being put out of the synagogue. We know the bible says one MUST confess Jesus is the Son of God to be saved (Luke 13:3). But these people loved the praises of man more than the praise of God.

So we see belief "alone" will not saved. So give it up W.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.(Jas. 2:17)

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

W, you are teaching a dead faith will save. Not so.


Do you understand that (2Thess.1:7-9) makes a distinction between knowing the gospel (faith only) and obeying the gospel. This is going to cause you to either give up false doctrine or you will continue to be dishonest.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2Thess.1:7-9)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them

...that know not God

...and that obey not the gospel

The word "and" connects faith and obedience to show a complete trust and obedience which will save ones soul?



*33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
As he preaches Christ to Cornelius and his company
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.(Acts 10:33)

...And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb. 5:9)

Remember that (Jn 6:29) teaches belief is a work. So you have problems on many levels W.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

whybaptism.org

theancientplan.com

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25 Feb 4, 2013
William wrote:
One OBEYS the gospel of Jesus Christ when one TRUSTS the gospel of Jesus Christ for their salvation.
James isn't written to you or me. See James 1:1 for who it was written to. The 12 tribes of Israel, scattered abroad.
I can have trust in the parachute I have on my back opening up and saving my life, but I do not have a saving faith in that parachute until I step out of a plane and allow that parachute to show me what it will do. Peter did not have complete trust in the Lord until he stepped out of the boat (action) and ONTO THE WATER (Mt. 14:29).

29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

whybaptism.org

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#26 Feb 4, 2013
W, the NT Law stretches from the book of Matthew to the book of Revelation. You cannot butcher the word of God and be pleasing to God.

You will continue to butcher the word of God as long as you cling to faith "only" salvation.

Go ahead and accept (James 2:24) and let the healing begin.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Right now you are teaching a "dead" faith will save men.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2:26)

thegospelofchrist.com

gbntv.org
William

Birmingham, AL

#27 Feb 5, 2013
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

You are.
William

Birmingham, AL

#28 Feb 5, 2013
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Go look and see what Galatians 2:16 (in a KJV) says about what justifies a Jew or a Gentile who comes to God for salvation by grace, through faith, and not of works.

The epistile of James is written to the 12 tribes of Israel, scattered abroad after the death of Stephen. You can either accept this or not, but James 1:1 is not about you or me.
William

Birmingham, AL

#29 Feb 5, 2013
1 Timothy 1:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they TEACH NO OTHER DOCTRINE,

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Q: Paul told Timothy to teach no other doctrine OTHER THAN WHAT?

Paul was given the gospel of the Grace of God. James, Peter, and John were not given this gospel. Their gospel, preached first in Matthew as the gospel of the Kingdom and THEN the gospel of the circumcision to the little flock of Jewish believers in Acts 1-7 is NOT the same thing as was given to Paul, who then gave it to Timothy that he "may teach others also."

Timothy NEVER preached water baptism, remission of sins, and enduring to the end to be saved. That is what the Jerusalem church (a Jewish church, exclusively) had preached unto them by Peter. There is a HUGE difference in the gospel given to Paul and the one given to Peter. They are not the same gospel, and they do not involve the same audience.

The gospel given to Paul is the gospel of the Grace of God, and deals with the gospel given to Paul by the resurrected Jesus Christ and is outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Paul's gospel (and he calls it MY GOSPEL in three different places) deals with salvation by grace, through faith, and not of works. It deals with people being justified BY the faith OF Jesus Christ when they trust that gospel, which is OUR gospel FOR TODAY.

What was given to Peter, James, and John was for the Jerusalem church and the Jerusalem church ALONE. The circumcision. The believing Jews who will be resurrected into the Kingdom that Christ will reign over. Peter and the 11 are the "princes" of this Kingdom, and it will comprise the 1,000 year reign of Christ ON EARTH, from Jerusalem.

But you don't believe this either, just like you don't trust that Christ died for all of your sins and that you can lose your salvation. You have been sold a bill of goods by a man-made church that fails to rightly divide the word of truth.
William

Birmingham, AL

#30 Feb 5, 2013
Matthew 19:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

SHALL sit in his throne of glory. That is the throne of David, and it is NOT in heaven, as your religion (and that of the Catholics) wrongly assume.
William

Birmingham, AL

#31 Feb 5, 2013
Acts 2:29-35
King James Version (KJV)

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

David's throne IS NOT in heaven, as verse 34 clearly states. How could it be if David himself is not ascended?

Jesus Christ is coming back to rule with an iron rod, just like Revelation says. Revelation was not about Titus and the Roman army destroying Jerusalem either. But you can be 100% certain that those events in Revelation WILL take place, and exactly as outlined. And it may not be that far off.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32 Feb 11, 2013
William wrote:
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Go look and see what Galatians 2:16 (in a KJV) says about what justifies a Jew or a Gentile who comes to God for salvation by grace, through faith, and not of works.
The epistile of James is written to the 12 tribes of Israel, scattered abroad after the death of Stephen. You can either accept this or not, but James 1:1 is not about you or me.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.(Gal. 3:28)

thetruthinlove.com

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#33 Feb 11, 2013
How were the Ephesians saved?

To find out we must go to (Acts 19:1-6).

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized

When they heard this, they were baptized

When they heard this, they were baptized

Would you look at that, Paul taught them they needed to be immersed in water to be saved.

So much for faith only salvation.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(James 2:24)

W, you are teaching a dead faith saves.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.



thegospelofchrist.com

gbntv.org

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#34 Feb 11, 2013
William wrote:
Acts 2:29-35
King James Version (KJV)
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
David's throne IS NOT in heaven, as verse 34 clearly states. How could it be if David himself is not ascended?
Jesus Christ is coming back to rule with an iron rod, just like Revelation says. Revelation was not about Titus and the Roman army destroying Jerusalem either. But you can be 100% certain that those events in Revelation WILL take place, and exactly as outlined. And it may not be that far off.
W. you must have skipped over the very first verse of the book of Revelation.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:(Rev. 1:1)

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

"Shortly come to pass" does not mean some 2000 years later W.

gbntv.org

whybaptism.org
William

Birmingham, AL

#35 Feb 11, 2013
So, Jesus came down from heaven and destroyed Titus, the anti-Christ? Have all the history books ever written since AD 70 failed to record this amazing event?

"Shortly" come to pass is during the time of the impending tribulation, prior to the second coming. You (and the Catholic church) have conveniently spiritualized most of Revelation to fit your man-made doctrine about the return of Christ.

Christ literally came in the flesh, lived and preached for 33+ years, and literally shed his blood at Calvary. Why do you feel the need to spiritualize and "interpret" for yourselves the events of Revelation and Acts that speak of Christ coming to earth to reign and rule on the seat of David? David is not ascended into the heavens, and David's seat is most certainly not in heavens:

Acts 2:34 For David is NOT ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.

Why won't you just believe the Bible?

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#36 Feb 25, 2013
William wrote:
So, Jesus came down from heaven and destroyed Titus, the anti-Christ? Have all the history books ever written since AD 70 failed to record this amazing event?
"Shortly" come to pass is during the time of the impending tribulation, prior to the second coming. You (and the Catholic church) have conveniently spiritualized most of Revelation to fit your man-made doctrine about the return of Christ.
Christ literally came in the flesh, lived and preached for 33+ years, and literally shed his blood at Calvary. Why do you feel the need to spiritualize and "interpret" for yourselves the events of Revelation and Acts that speak of Christ coming to earth to reign and rule on the seat of David? David is not ascended into the heavens, and David's seat is most certainly not in heavens:
Acts 2:34 For David is NOT ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Why won't you just believe the Bible?
W - "...events of Revelation and Acts that speak of Christ coming to earth to reign and rule on the seat of David"

Me - Where does Revelation speak of Jesus coming back to reign and rule on the physical earth?

It is not found in (Rev. 20).

****

Your problem is that you do not believe the kingdom of Christ (the church) has been established. It was established in the first century. The kingdom is the church (Mt. 16:18).

Jesus spoke of some apostles who would NOT DIE until they seen the kingdom come with POWER.(Mark 9;1)(Luke 24:47-49)(Acts 2:1-4).

Either the kingdom of Christ (church of Christ) was established in the first century or there are some very old apostles (2000 yrs old) walking the earth today according to (Mark 9:1).


****
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.(Mark 9:1)

****

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.(Luke 24:47-49)

****

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.(Acts 2:1-4)

****

...And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.(Acts 2:47)

People were being added to the church (the kingdom) in (Acts 2:47). This proves the Kingdome was established. the Lord s not coming back to earth to establish his Kingdom he is coming back in the clouds to receive his people.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(1Thess. 4:16)

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#37 Feb 25, 2013
William wrote:
So, Jesus came down from heaven and destroyed Titus, the anti-Christ? Have all the history books ever written since AD 70 failed to record this amazing event?
"Shortly" come to pass is during the time of the impending tribulation, prior to the second coming. You (and the Catholic church) have conveniently spiritualized most of Revelation to fit your man-made doctrine about the return of Christ.
Christ literally came in the flesh, lived and preached for 33+ years, and literally shed his blood at Calvary. Why do you feel the need to spiritualize and "interpret" for yourselves the events of Revelation and Acts that speak of Christ coming to earth to reign and rule on the seat of David? David is not ascended into the heavens, and David's seat is most certainly not in heavens:
Acts 2:34 For David is NOT ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Why won't you just believe the Bible?
Concerning the book of Revelation,

W - ""Shortly" come to pass is during the time of the impending tribulation, prior to the second coming."

Me - Notice what John said in (Rev. 1:9).

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,

...am your brother

...and companion in tribulation,

...and in the kingdom

The tribulation spoken of in Revelation was not some 2000 years later. John said he was in tribulation in the first century.

John also said he was in the Kingdom (the Church).

thegospelofchrist.com
ravcax

Rochester, PA

#38 Feb 25, 2013

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