What The Church of Christ Teach

What The Church of Christ Teach

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Grace

Greenville, TX

#1 Jan 25, 2013
William

Birmingham, AL

#2 Jan 25, 2013
The CoC teaches works, not grace.

James 2:24 is posted in nearly every CoC thread, therefore the CoC teaches works (even though James isn't written to you, me, or anyone else today).

James 1:1 is not going away. Which one of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad do you belong to?
Christian

Greenville, TX

#3 Jan 26, 2013
William wrote:
The CoC teaches works, not grace.
James 2:24 is posted in nearly every CoC thread, therefore the CoC teaches works (even though James isn't written to you, me, or anyone else today).
James 1:1 is not going away. Which one of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad do you belong to?
W, do not lie on members of the coC. we teach grace and biblical grace at that. Grace includes works if you understand Gods plan.



8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

How did Noah find grace?

22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.(Gen. 6:8,22)

Grace teaches man what to do So he can be saved.

Noah was told to build an ark.

If he built an ark as the Lord commanded

Then and only then could Noah be saved

Did Noah save himself?

No, God gave him instructions (grace) on how to be saved and there was no way to be saved except obey the Lords commands.

Allow me to prove this to you.

(Titus 2:11,12)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Will "all men" be saved since grace appeared to "all men"?

Does the verses above say grace "teaches"?

YES they do.

Those instructions (teachings / doctrine) tells man what to do to be saved.

Grace "teaches" man to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, these are things man is instructed NOT to do.

Grace teaches man to live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The NT Law is "teaching" (instructing) us these principles to live our life by if we want to access the grace of God.

Therefore the NT Law is also a part of Gods grace.

1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God ...(1Thess.4:1,2).

The only way to please God is by obeying His instructions.

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.(Gen. 4:7)

As long as we live by these principle we are covered by the grace of God (and are saved).

If one rejects these principles and decides not to live by them man is no longer walking in the light as (1Jn 1:6-9) speak about in fact man walks right out of the grace of God on his own. The choice is his.

(Acts 8:13-24)(1Cor.9:27)(Luke 8:5-15)(Jn 15:3) are all examples a Christian can be lost if he abides not in the instructions (doctrine) of the Lord

***

theancientplan.com
Paul Baptized Crispus

Greenville, TX

#4 Jan 26, 2013
What was Paul told to do to be saved by the Lord?

1. Nothing
2. Only believe
3. Do something

What was the Jailer in (Acts 16:30-34) told to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

What was the Ephesians in (Acts 19:1-6) told to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

theancientplan.com
William

Birmingham, AL

#5 Jan 26, 2013
Noah found grace all right. And he had to do works to prove his faith. He had to build an ark, or he along with everyone in his family would have drowned.

Not so what Paul was given to preach. "... NOT OF WORKS."

The two examples of the grace of God are plainly not the same thing. Why? Because God, who never changes, HAS changed his manner of dealing with man down through history.

Since the Law was done away with at the cross, you can plainly see that this is true. God is dealing with man right now via grace, not Mosaic Law.
Paul Baptized Crispus

Greenville, TX

#6 Jan 26, 2013
Always remember the Ephesians are not told how to be saved in (Eph.2:8-10).

To learn how the Ephesians were saved you must go to (Acts 19:1-6).

There not only will you learn they done something to be saved but the Ephesians were baptized TWICE. That is neither grace "alone" nor faith "alone".

Johns immersion was for the remission of sins (Mark1:4)

The immersion of the NT is also for the remission of sins.

(Acts 2:38)(Acts 22:16)(1Peter 3:20,21)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb.5:9)



theancientplan.com
Paul Baptized Crispus

Greenville, TX

#7 Jan 26, 2013
William wrote:
The CoC teaches works, not grace.
James 2:24 is posted in nearly every CoC thread, therefore the CoC teaches works (even though James isn't written to you, me, or anyone else today).
James 1:1 is not going away. Which one of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad do you belong to?
I will not allow you to get away with charging the COC with teaching works when you do the very same thing.

Belief is a work.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(Jn 6:29)

The word of God says belief is a work W.

So you teach a works gospel also.

theancientplan.com
William

Birmingham, AL

#8 Jan 26, 2013
"Always remember the Ephesians are not told how to be saved in (Eph.2:8-10)."

Wrong. They already WERE saved. Ephesians 1 makes this clear, and they were sealed BY the holy spirit when they heard, believed, and TRUSTED the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"To learn how the Ephesians were saved you must go to (Acts 19:1-6)."

Wrong AGAIN. Those particular Ephesians were Jews, baptized unto the baptism of John. The Ephesian letter was written to Gentiles who were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promises given to Israel.

"There not only will you learn they done something to be saved but the Ephesians were baptized TWICE. That is neither grace "alone" nor faith "alone".

LOL ... you fail to see that Paul went and preached to two very different groups of Ephesians. Jew and Gentile. Further, the Gentiles of the Ephesian letter were a bunch of idol worshipping heathens who worshipped Diana, not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Read ALL of Acts 19 to see this.

The Gentiles of the Ephesian letter are not at all like the Gentiles that feared God and blessed Israel, like folks like Cornelius were. "He loveth our nation, and buildeth us a temple." That is NOTHING like the Ephesian Gentile in the letter that Paul wrote. Go check out chapters 2 and 3 and tell me if those Ephesian Gentiles had ANYTHING to do with Israel. And from there, you will begin to understand the revelation of the mystery ... revealed ONLY to Paul.

Rightly divide the word of truth.
William

Birmingham, AL

#9 Jan 26, 2013
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(Jn 6:29)"

LOL ... who "did" the work here? Looks like God did the work for them. But hey, keep holding onto that idea that belief is a work.

"...the work OF God."

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10 Jan 27, 2013
28 Then said they unto him, What shall WE DO, that WE MIGHT work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that YE BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent.(Jn 6:28)

What shall we do, that we might work

What shall we do, that we might work

What shall we do, that we might work

This is the work of God, that ye believe

This is the work of God, that ye believe

This is the work of God, that ye believe

Above who is doing the work of belief?


Who did God say would be doing the work?

...that ye believe

...that ye believe

...that ye believe

You are incorrect once again W.

Can you not see how much trouble this two gospel doctrine has got you into? Every time you turn around you have to fight another battle which you cannot win.

Give up that false doctrine and come to the simple truth of THE ONE TRUE gospel.

theancientplan.com

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#11 Jan 27, 2013
I am sure you just forgot these questions so I posted them again for you to answer.

What did the Lord tell Paul to do to be saved?
(Acts 9:6)(Acts 22:16)

1. Nothing
2. Only believe
3. Do something

What did Paul and Silas tell the Jailer in (Acts 16:30-34) to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

What did Paul tell the Ephesians in (Acts 19:1-6)to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

theancientplan.com
William

Altoona, AL

#12 Jan 28, 2013
There is one gospel, for us today.

There WERE two gospels present when Peter, James, and John preached the gospel OF the circumcision to the believing Jews at Jerusalem. Paul preached the gospel OF the uncircumcision to the heathen.

Galatians 2 in a KJV makes this clear. And they are most definitely not the same thing, so trying to combine them into the same thing will not work.

But this is what your religion does, and as a result, you are forced to defend a confused mish-mash of doctrine.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#13 Jan 30, 2013
I am sure you just forgot these questions so I posted them again for you to answer.

What did the Lord tell Paul to do to be saved?
(Acts 9:6)(Acts 22:16)

1. Nothing
2. Only believe
3. Do something

What did Paul and Silas tell the Jailer in (Acts 16:30-34) to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

What did Paul tell the Ephesians in (Acts 19:1-6)to do to be saved?

1. Nothing
2. Only Believe
3. Do something

theancientplan.com
William

Phenix City, AL

#14 Jan 30, 2013
1. Paul was a Jew who was baptized unto John's baptism. That was his repentance unto Israel, same as what every other believing Jew did.

2. He told them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Period.

3. The 12 "certain disciples" of Acts 19 were Jews, baptized unto John's baptism. Gentiles were not baptized unto John's baptism because they were not Jews, and Christ in the flesh did not preach to Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7: Matthew 15:24). The Acts 19:1-8 account is not about them "getting baptized to be saved" either, unless your Bible says something different from my KJV.

But following your reasoning here, we would all have to have Paul lay his hands on us too, in order to get the Holy Ghost. Good luck waiting for that to happen.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15 Jan 31, 2013
(Acts 22:16)- Paul's conversion

1. Arise
2. be baptized
3. Wash Your Sins Away

Looks like he was told to do more than believe.

(Acts 16:31-34)- Jailer

30. what must I do to be saved?
31. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now comes the sermon with instructions how to enter the grace of God.

32. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Now comes repentance shown by the Jailer.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes;

...and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

It is midnight and pitch black outside and these people are out looking for water to baptize the Jailer and his houselhold.

You tell me they thought they could wait and be baptized (in water) a week later? No sir, they are out and risking the life of the jailer b/c his prisoner has been freed. Yet they are out and still looking for water to baptize these people at midnight in the dark.

Can you not see the necessity of being baptized in water in this story?

Not one preacher in the book of Acts waits to baptize anyone. They do it immediately. This shows the necessity of being immersed in water.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Notice they did not "rejoice" until after being baptized in water.(34)

Notice they are only said to be "believing in God" after being baptized in water.(34)

The story of the Jailer is much like the story of the Ethiopian Eunuch in (Acts 8:26-39).

Paul's sins were not forgiven until he was baptized according to (Acts 22:16).

1. Arise
2. be baptized
3. Wash Your Sins Away

If I did not use any other lesson than that of Paul it shows you are in error and not teaching truth.

gbntv.org

theancientplan.com
William

Birmingham, AL

#16 Jan 31, 2013
Once again, you fail to see that water baptism for the remission of sins was what John the Baptist preached to Jews. Was Paul a Jew? Yes, he was. He adhered to what Jews did to show repentance unto Israel for the death of their messiah.

But that is not what he told the Philippian jailer. He told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, not "believe AND be baptized" in order to be saved, which, again, is different than the Mark 16:16 statement. Why? Because Paul was not sent out under the same "commission" as the 12.

Want proof of this? Find an instance where a Gentile baptized another Gentile after hearing what Paul was given to preach. Or a Gentile baptizing a Jew.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#17 Feb 2, 2013
William wrote:
Once again, you fail to see that water baptism for the remission of sins was what John the Baptist preached to Jews. Was Paul a Jew? Yes, he was. He adhered to what Jews did to show repentance unto Israel for the death of their messiah.
But that is not what he told the Philippian jailer. He told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, not "believe AND be baptized" in order to be saved, which, again, is different than the Mark 16:16 statement. Why? Because Paul was not sent out under the same "commission" as the 12.
Want proof of this? Find an instance where a Gentile baptized another Gentile after hearing what Paul was given to preach. Or a Gentile baptizing a Jew.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.(Gal. 3:28)

1. How do Jews get "in Christ" W?

2. How do Gentiles get "in Christ" W?



Spell it out for us.

whybaptism.org
William

Birmingham, AL

#18 Feb 2, 2013
1. How do Jews get "in Christ" W?

2. How do Gentiles get "in Christ" W?

By trusting what Christ did FOR THEM at Calvary, ever since Paul was given the gospel of the grace of God.

Find me where Peter preached "saved by grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS" in Acts 2. Or where he told those Jews that Christ died FOR THEIR sins.

It ain't there.

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#19 Feb 2, 2013
William wrote:
1. How do Jews get "in Christ" W?
2. How do Gentiles get "in Christ" W?
By trusting what Christ did FOR THEM at Calvary, ever since Paul was given the gospel of the grace of God.
Find me where Peter preached "saved by grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS" in Acts 2. Or where he told those Jews that Christ died FOR THEIR sins.
It ain't there.
Did Paul write the following?

(Rom. 6:16-18)

16. Decide who to serve.

17. Obey that form of doctrine delivered.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.(become a Christian)

Does Paul in the verse above say one ust obey something before he becomes a Christian? If so, why are you not teaching what Paul taught?

whybaptism.org

Sosthenes

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#20 Feb 2, 2013
Correction :

Does Paul in the verse above say one "MUST" obey something before he becomes a Christian? If so, why are you not teaching what Paul taught?

Gospel Preceptor

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