49°F | 31°F
Comments (Page 63)
If you accuse, provide examples... Name the extra curricular loops. (waiting....) |
||||
If “baptismal re-generation” is the idea that there is a miraculous power in the water that produces salvation, than this is NOT what I believe and I do not want you to continue to tell me that I do (or else you will be lying). The power of baptism to remove sin lies not in the water, but in the God Who commanded the sinner to be baptized in the first place. |
||||
Caught stroking your ego once again as you continue to pat yourself on the back... Pompous - characterized by an ostentatious display of dignity or importance. Ostentatiously lofty or high-flown. pretentious arrogant inflated bombastic Those words describe you in your last post. It would also descrbe the Pharisees or the Jews around the Samaritans. I'm not sure how much room scripture allows for the pompous attitude, especially coming from someone who suggests I claim to be superior when I haven't claimed anything but submission. Few stood by Jesus and defended Him while He was suffering, does this mean he did not represent the truth just because he was unpopular? I've stated before that this is not a popularity contest or a democracy. The road is straight and narrow and few there be that find it. your comment "I'm not here to make friends at the expense of truth" is funny because you seem to have the opinion that the truth is worthless as you ignore it in your constant slanders. It is not MY church. |
||||
Wow!! You are something else!! Too bad your not average height. Ronnie, If “baptismal re-generation” is the idea that there is a miraculous power in the water that produces salvation, than this is NOT what I believe and I do not want you to continue to tell me that I do (or else you will be lying). The power of baptism to remove sin lies not in the water, but in the God Who commanded the sinner to be baptized in the first place. |
||||
Speaking of name calling, maybe I should being pointing out some of the names you call me. "Campbellites" for instance; you can refer to me as a christian since I am a member of the first century church founded by Christ. This was long before Campbell lived. I'm not sure what is incorrect about the following statement: "Baptizing them into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit puts them into the enjoyment of all the blessings to be received in Christ, the blood of Christ, the remission of sins, the fellowship of God.... baptism is essential to entrance unto Christ. Water is the medium through which in baptism, we pass from a state of sin and condemnation into a state of acceptance and favor with God." How might this statement disagree with what Peter stated in Acts 2:38? |
||||
To circumvent the connection between water baptism and salvation, some have suggested that the baptism discussed in passages such as Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21 is Holy Spirit baptism. But such a position cannot be correct. Christ commanded His followers—after His death and ascension—to go into all the world and “make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”(Matthew 28:18-20). That same command applies no less to Christians today. During the early parts of the first century, we know there was more than one baptism in existence (e.g., John’s baptism, Holy Spirit baptism, Christ’s baptism, etc.). But by the time Paul wrote his epistle to the Christians in Ephesus, only one of those baptisms remained. He stated specifically in Ephesians 4:4-5:“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Which one baptism remained? One thing we know for certain: Christ never would give His disciples a command that they could not carry out. The Scriptures, however, teach that Jesus administers baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:15-17). Yet Christians were commanded to baptize those whom they taught, and who believed (John 3:16), repented of their sins (Luke 13:3), and confessed Christ as the Son of God (Matthew 10:32). It is clear, then, that the baptism commanded by Christ was not Holy Spirit baptism. If it were, Christ would be put in the untenable position of having commanded His disciples to do something they could not do—baptize in the Holy Spirit. However, they could baptize in water, which is exactly what they did. And that is exactly what we still are doing today. Baptism in the Holy Spirit no longer is available; only water baptism remains, and is the one true baptism commanded by Christ for salvation (Ephesians 4:4-5; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38). When a person does precisely what the Lord has commanded, he has not “merited” or “earned” salvation. Rather, his obedience is evidence of his faith (James 2:18). Are we saved by God’s grace? Indeed we are (Ephesians 2:8-9). But the fact that we are saved by grace does not negate human responsibility in obeying God’s commands. Every person who wishes to be saved must exhibit the “obedience of faith” commanded within God’s Word (Romans 1:5; 16:26). A part of that obedience is adhering to God’s command to be baptized. |
||||
|
Holy Spirit Baptism (part 1)
The very first allusion to Holy Spirit baptism in the New Testament is John’s statement:“I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me...will baptize you in the Holy Spirit”(Matthew 3:11, emp. added). From this statement alone, one might be tempted to assume that Christians in general would be baptized in the Holy Spirit. But this assumption would be a premature conclusion. John was not addressing a Christian audience. He was speaking to Jews. Nothing in the context allows the interpreter to distinguish John’s intended recipients of the promise of Holy Spirit baptism—whether all humans, all Jews, all Christians, or merely some of those in one or more of these categories. Likewise, the exact recipients of the baptism of fire (i.e., hell) are not specified. However, as is often the case in the Bible, the specific recipients of this promise are clarified in later passages. Just before His ascension, Jesus told the apostles to wait in Jerusalem until “clothed with power from on high”(Luke 24:49). In John chapters 14-16, Jesus made several specific promises to the apostles concerning the coming of the Spirit—the “Comforter” or “Helper”(parakletos)—upon them, to empower them to do the peculiar work of an apostle (i.e., to recall the words Jesus had spoken to them, to speak and write by inspiration, and to launch the Christian religion). If these verses apply to all Christians, then all Christians ought to have been personally guided “into all the truth”(John 16:13), and thus would have absolutely no need of written Scripture (John 14:26). However, in context, these verses clearly refer to the apostolic office. Jesus further clarified the application of Holy Spirit baptism when He told the apostles that the earlier statement made in Luke 24:49 applied to them, and would come to pass “not many days hence”(Acts 1:4-5). Jesus also stated that the “power” that they would receive would be from the Holy Spirit, which would enable them to witness to the world what they had experienced by being with Jesus (Acts 1:8). Notice very carefully that on this occasion Jesus made an explicit reference to the very statement that John had uttered previously in Matthew 3:“for John indeed baptized with water; but ye [apostles—DM] shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence”(Acts 1:5, emp. added). Jesus specifically and explicitly identified the Holy Spirit baptism that He would administer (in keeping with John’s prediction) would take place within a few days, and would be confined to the apostles. |
||||
|
Holy Spirit Baptism (Part II)
All one need do is turn the page to see the promise of Holy Spirit baptism achieve dramatic and climactic fulfillment in Acts 2 when the Spirit was poured out only upon the apostles. The antecedent of “they” in Acts 2:4 is “the apostles” in Acts 1:26. The apostles were the ones who spoke in tongues and taught the people. They were the recipients of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as is evident from the following contextual indicators:(1)“are not all these that speak Galileans?”(2:7); (2)“Peter, standing up with the eleven”(2:14); (3)“they...said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles”(2:37); (4) Peter quoted Joel 2:28-32 and applied it to that occasion as proof that the apostles were not intoxicated; and (5) the text even states explicitly that the signs and wonders were “done through the apostles”(2:43). This pattern continues in the book of Acts:“And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people”(5:12); “the Lord, who bare witness unto the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands”(14:3); “what signs and wonders God had wrought…through them”(15:12). The next direct reference to Holy Spirit baptism consisted of Peter describing the experience of the Gentiles in Acts 10. Referring to their empowerment to speak in tongues, Peter explicitly identified it as being comparable to the experience of the apostles in Acts 2. Note his explanation:“And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us [apostles—DM] at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us [apostles—DM]…”(Acts 11:15-17, emp. added). Peter unmistakably linked the baptism of the Holy Spirit predicted by John in Matthew 3:11, and applied by Jesus to the apostles in Acts 1:5, with the unique and exclusive bestowal of the same on the first Gentile candidates of salvation. If the baptism of the Holy Spirit had occurred between Acts 2 and Acts 10, why did Peter compare the Gentiles’ experience with the experience of the apostles—rather than comparing it with many other Christians who allegedly would have received it during the intervening years? The answer lies in the fact that the baptism of the Holy Spirit did not occur during the intervening years. Baptism of the Holy Spirit was a unique and infrequent occurrence that came directly from deity. This understanding harmonizes with additional facts. The great prophecy of the Old Testament, which made special reference to the coming New Testament era as the dispensation of the Spirit, incorporated a most noteworthy expression. God declared,“I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh”(Joel 2:28). Peter repeated it on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:17). What did God mean by the expression “all flesh”? Members of the charismatic community insist that “all flesh” means “all Christians.” They maintain that every Christian can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They claim that to narrow the application of the promise of Holy Spirit baptism to a select group of individuals would deprive all other Christians of the opportunity to receive miraculous power. However, upon what biblical basis may such a claim be made? |
||||
|
Holy spirit Baptism (Part III)
Those who claim the presence of miraculous gifts are guilty of the very thing they condemn—narrowing the expression “all flesh.” Surely no one would take the position that it means all animal flesh—since animals are not the recipients of God’s spiritual provisions. Nor would anyone contend that it means all human flesh—since all wicked, disobedient, unbelieving people would hardly expect, let alone desire, to receive God’s Spirit. Those who agree that the expression “all flesh” must undoubtedly be qualified to exclude the animals and the unbelieving will nonetheless insist that narrowing the meaning to less than “all Christians” is unjustifiable. To understand the proper meaning and application of the expression “all flesh,” one must examine the biblical use of the expression.“All flesh” often is used in the Bible to refer to the bulk of humanity (e.g., Genesis 6:12-13). It also can include all animal flesh (e.g., Genesis 6:17,19). However, with God’s special utilization of the descendants of Abraham in His scheme of redemption,“all flesh” often has the more technical meaning of “all nationalities.” The primary reason for this specialized use of the expression was due to the fact that most of the Old Testament was written against the backdrop of the presence of the nation of Israel. God is certainly “no respecter of persons”(Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 3:25; 1 Peter 1:17; Acts 10:34-35). He does not favor one ethnic group over another. However, since His redemptive intention included bringing Jesus into the world for the benefit of all, someone had to be selected through whom Jesus’ arrival might be achieved. That man was Abraham (Galatians 3:8,16) and, consequently, his descendents. As a result of this circumstance, the Jewish writers of the Bible frequently divided humanity into only two racial groupings, i.e., Jew and non-Jew (Gentile). For example, in what is obviously a strongly Messianic passage, Isaiah (the “Messianic prophet”) predicted the coming of John the baptizer who would prepare the way for Jesus. He exclaimed:“The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together”(40:5). The reference to “all flesh” was an unmistakable reference to the availability of salvation to both Jew and Gentile in the Christian era, as evinced by Luke’s quotation of the passage (Luke 3:6). The same is true in another prophecy that Isaiah uttered pertaining to the coming Christian era:“All flesh shall come to worship before Me”(Isaiah 66:23). The Jews of Isaiah’s day would not have been very pleased with Isaiah’s declarations, since they most certainly would have understood him to be predicting the incorporation of Gentiles into God’s favor—which the Jews felt they alone enjoyed. |
||||
|
Holy Spirit Baptism (part IV)
Paul cinched the meaning of “all flesh” in his premiere treatise on justification by faith. He drew a clear distinction between the two ethnic categories by first declaring the sins of the Gentiles (Romans 1:18-32) and then declaring the sins of the Jews (Romans 2:1-3:8). Notice carefully his concluding remarks as he brought the first section of the book to its climax:“What then? are we [the Jews—DM] better than they [the Gentiles—DM]? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin”(Romans 3:9, emp. added). He then quoted a series of Old Testament verses, which verified his emphasis upon the two (and only two) categories of human flesh, using two significant terms:“none” and “all.”“None” means neither Jew nor Gentile.“All” means both Jew and Gentile. Then he articulated his grand and climactic conclusion:“because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified”(Romans 3:20, emp. added).“No flesh” referred to Jew and Gentile. In other words, neither Jew nor Gentile could be justified by law alone.“No flesh” and “all flesh” were technical allusions to the two categories of human flesh, i.e., Jew and non-Jew. Observe, then, that the first recipients of Holy Spirit baptism, as we have seen, were the Jewish apostles on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. It equipped them to establish the church and to write, speak, and confirm inspired truth. The second recipients of Holy Spirit baptism were the Gentile members of the household of Cornelius in Acts 10. It convinced Jewish Christians that Gentiles were fit prospects for the reception of the Gospel, and valid candidates for entrance into the kingdom (Acts 10:34-35,45; 11:18). So Joel’s statement, that God would pour out His Spirit on “all flesh,” applied to the outpouring on Jews in Acts 2 and on Gentiles in Acts 10. The only other conceivable occurrence of Holy Spirit baptism would have been Paul, who would have received direct miraculous ability from God as well. His reception was obviously unique because (1) he was not an apostle when the Twelve received the Spirit, and (2) he was “one born out of due time”(1 Corinthians 15:8). Holy Spirit baptism, then, filled two unique and exclusive purposes:(1) to prepare the apostles for their apostolic (not Christian) roles, and (2) to provide divine demonstration that Gentiles were to be allowed to become Christians. |
||||
|
Holy Spirit Baptism (part V)
One additional consideration deserves comment regarding Joel’s prophecy. If “all flesh” referred exclusively to the Jewish apostles and the first Gentile converts, why did Joel include “sons, daughters, old men, young men, servants, and handmaids” in the reception of God’s Spirit (Joel 2:28-29)? As was typical of Hebrew prophecy, progressive, sequential, and complete fulfillment would be forthcoming. A prophecy could possess several features that found fulfillment in a variety of circumstances. It is apparent, on the basis of the references already discussed (e.g., Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:15-17), that only the first part of Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. The “last days”(Acts 2:17) referred to the entire Christian dispensation from Pentecost to the Judgment. The outpouring of the Spirit, therefore, would include more than just the baptism of the Holy Spirit that was confined to the Jewish apostles on Pentecost and the Gentiles a few years later. Though the peculiar phenomenon of Holy Spirit baptism was limited to those two specific ethnic groups (i.e., the twelve apostles and the household of Cornelius), additional activity of the Spirit would include the impartation of miraculous gifts through the laying on of the apostles’ hands (discussed below). This conclusion is evident from the fact that no “daughters” or “handmaids” received Holy Spirit baptism on Pentecost. Nor is there any evidence of the occurrence of “dreams” or “visions” on Pentecost. With the Holy Spirit’s expanded presence in the instigation of Christianity in the first century came the eventual impartation of miraculous ability separate and apart from Holy Spirit baptism. The broadened fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy (subsequent to Acts 2) is seen in the references to Philip’s daughters who prophesied (Acts 21:9) and in the occurrence of visions (Acts 9:10; 10:3,10; 16:9). However, these miraculous manifestations, though included in Joel’s prophecy, were not instances of Holy Spirit baptism. The common link in the Holy Spirit’s outpouring on Pentecost and the manifestations of the Spirit thereafter was the baptism of the Holy Spirit on the apostles—who were the keys to the further distribution of miraculous power in the early years of Christianity. |
||||
Your 'conversion' and that of Cornelieus and the apostles are different from each other. To compare yours with theirs is not rightly dividing the Word. |
||||
Your actions and words clearly say that every good baptist or anyone not in your church is going to hell. I call that a lie and it is obvious. Only cults do that. |
||||
|
Ronnie wrote:
Repeat The fact that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the point of saving faith is abundantly clear from Acts 11:15-17. Also, Peter repeats this fact with even more detail in Acts 15:7-11, dispelling the typical attempt to evade this fact by theorizing that God must have done something unique in the case of the Gentiles. Peter makes it quite clear that there is only, and has been only, one way of salvation, the same for both Jews and Gentiles - faith alone in Christ alone. Saban fab: Your 'conversion' and that of Cornelieus and the apostles are different from each other. To compare yours with theirs is not rightly dividing the Word. Not at all, it is the Spirit that brings about re-generation not physical tap water. Anyone without the Spirit is lost, it just can't happen. Your system says that water brings about regeneration. Cornelius clearly had the Spirit before water baptism. Are you going to call this a lie??????? |
||||
You are saying that. Not me. I am not the judge. Do you think you are? |
||||
When we're baptized we receive the Spirit as scripture states (Acts 2:38). I do not call your statement about Cornelieus a lie. As the apostle says in Acts 11:15-18 Cornelieus was given the spirit in the same manner as the Apostles were. "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said:'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life." Face the truth Ronnie. No one is given the spirit in the same manner as the apostles and Cornelieus' family was. Cornelieus' conversion proved to the apostles (as we read in this scripture (vs. 18)) that the gospel was for the Gentiles too. This fulfilled scripture that it would be given to the Jew first and then to the Greek. No other conversions were similar to theirs in the Bible and none are today. They were very unique and for specific purposes. This does not downplay our conversions at all, it is just that our conversions are the same as all of the other converts in the first century church, not the Apostles and not Cornelieus and his family. To take that conversion and to create a doctorine from it to apply to people today is to pervert the gospel. We're warned about fasle teachers. I would not want to be one, Ronnie. Neither should you. |
||||
|
Ronnie wrote:
<quoted text> Your actions and words clearly say that every good baptist or anyone not in your church is going to hell. I call that a lie and it is obvious. Only cults do that. Saban fan: You are saying that. Not me. I am not the judge. Do you think you are? Are you willing to say before this group and God that All believers are going to hell except for you and your supposedly true church? In other words Are the baptist true Christians? You my friend are hiding from your church's terrible superiority complex. I spent many years in your church, there is no way you can truthfully say I am lying. |
||||
|
Why did you not answer this question?
Cornelius clearly had the Spirit before water baptism. Are you going to call this a lie??????? Personally, I think you already have called it a lie. |
||||
Please read #1279. My answer was given in the second sentance. Are you actually reading my posts? |
||||
It is a submission complex. The only person strutting around and acting superior on this thread is Ronnie. |
||||
|
||||
Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.
Search the Priceville Forum:
| Topic | Updated | Last By | Comments |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jury Recommends Death Penalty For Kevin Towles ... | 1 hr | carrie | 3 |
| Christmas Lights Thief - WHNT | 4 hr | A proud Amer... | 33 |
| Man Facing Divorce Kills Wife, Family (Apr '09) | 6 hr | Too-soon | 26 |
| Huntsville Man Stuck In Blizzard - WHNT | 12 hr | Crunksta | 15 |
| 5 Points Star Market Robbed - WHNT | 12 hr | Crunksta | 3 |
| Thieves Strike Church Twice In Two Weeks - WHNT | 12 hr | Crunksta | 8 |
| Congressman Meets With Engineers About NASA - WHNT | 16 hr | Crunksta | 6 |
See coupons from Priceville, AL
Electronics • Women's Apparel • Toys & Games
Computers • Furniture • Flowers and more ...
AriesAlthough you've probably already mentally started the Christmas holidays, the coming four weeks will be a fantastic time to push ahead with your career and long-term plans. Start thinking carefully about what you want to achieve in 2010 and get into formulating a schedule. Write down your New Year's resolutions, and promise yourself that you'll stick to them.
|
Reach local customers. Engage a specific demographic. Maximize business-to-business opportunities. Topix can deliver your message.
|
Copyright ©2009 Topix LLC
Judge it!
