Central Church of Christ in Huntsville Alabama

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe you should kick satan out and rely on Jesus instead of your own works.

What works have I done that I would be able to rely upon?

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

<quoted text>
Wait a minute, is this dying a process. Because you seem to still be carrying around a lot of excess baggage ie sin. The seed reproduces after it's own kind. Then this new life is empowered to serve it's master.
Have you been circumcised without human hands, if not. You need to be. Have you partaken of the Spiritual water of life? Is so why do you depend on physical re-generation?

I've already explained to you this "regeneration" you keep stating, similar to your continually stating I believe I am saved by "works". When you continue to state those things that I have corrected you about over and over they become slander and lies. You don't seem to mind going there into the slander and lies category - OFTEN. How does the 'christian' continually spout the lies and still belive they are acting in a Christ-like manner? My answer - They can only act this way in an unrepentant manner if they are not a christian.

You are a false teacher... a slanderer.

The circumcision you speak of did not happen with human hands any more than the Holy Spirit came into my heart with human hands. All of this is the spiritual cleansing that takes place in baptism. Don't be so shallow as to think the cleansing is like a bath for your body...

Baptism has much spiritual meaning - yours must just be physical...this would explain your lack of respect and knowledge about the ONE baptism we're told about in Ephesians.

[Saban fan]

mary Robson wrote:

the church speak where the bible speaks and they are silent , when they don't understand what the bible is saying or it is not what they were taught over the last hunderd years

Explain...

Examples <-------?

[Ronnie]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
To not be hiding, how come you don't share your 'denomination'? It remains hidden. Surely you attend worship somewhere. You only play when you can see my hand, but you don't show yours. Impressive!...
You begin with a huge lie AGAIN by stating "The bible teaches reliance on the death burial and Resurrection of Christ as being sufficient to forgive all sins. You and the coc doctrine you follow reject that"
You are a Liar through and through, Ronnie.

Let me put it this way: I belong to the true church. Where have I heard that before? My my you are sure using a lot of name calling.

[Ronnie]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe physically it looked the same, but spiritually it was done for very different reasons. It is really easy to do, nothing to boast about. If I'm boasting about mine than you are also boasting about yours that you feel is superior. I teach that grace saves, but I don't overlook the importance of an obedient faith either. If you do you are naieve to scripture. You should just cut out John 3:16, have that as your text, and do away with the rest....

I'm not sure I have ever referred specifically to John 3:16.

I can see that now you have shifted from an obedience for salvation to a faith doctrine. Why is your faith better than mine? We both obeyed the command for water salvation. I knew you would do this, your true colors are being revealed.

[Ronnie]

No where in the bible does it say that we must believe that water saves us, it ain't there. Just like there is no scripture which says we must believe that the denomination you are in is the true church.

We are told we must have faith in Christ and the cross.

[Ronnie]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
What works have I done that I would be able to rely upon?

That is the problem, you have no works that will be credited to your account, but you keep trying to say your form of worship is required. If I don't do worship exactly you I am lost according to you.

So, you rely on all those extra curricular loops you are by coc required, to jump through. You are a product of the restoration movement.

[Ronnie]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
I've already explained to you this "regeneration" you keep stating, similar to your continually stating I believe I am saved by "works". When you continue to state those things that I have corrected you about over and over they become slander and lies. You don't seem to mind going there into the slander and lies category - OFTEN. How does the 'christian' continually spout the lies and still belive they are acting in a Christ-like manner? My answer - They can only act this way in an unrepentant manner if they are not a christian.
You are a false teacher... a slanderer.
The circumcision you speak of did not happen with human hands any more than the Holy Spirit came into my heart with human hands. All of this is the spiritual cleansing that takes place in baptism. Don't be so shallow as to think the cleansing is like a bath for your body...
Baptism has much spiritual meaning - yours must just be physical...this would explain your lack of respect and knowledge about the ONE baptism we're told about in Ephesians.

I must have posted a hundred times the truth about baptism. You are in very good company.

Here is a list of denominations that teach baptismal regeneration:

Catholics
church of Christ
disciples of Christ
ana-baptist
mormons
Jehovah witnesses
anglican church
orthodox churches

All of these agree with you on baptismal re-generation. How many of these do you claim as your brothers in Christ? Yes, I thought so, there are none!

[Ronnie]

Saban fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Explain...
Examples <-------?

Have you noticed that no one who comes to this thread agrees with you. Guess I'm doing my job, huh?

You could try somewhere else, but I am good at exposing coc false doctrine. I'm not here to make friends at the expense of truth. Sounds like something you might say considering you teach that all believers in christ not a member of your church are going to hell. Prove me wrong!

[Ronnie]

http://www.watchman.org/reltop/baptism.htm

[Ronnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I never seem to run out of info or people who can refute baptismal regeneration.

[Ronnie]

What Do They Believe?

Religions such as Roman Catholicism, Seveth-day Adventism, Mormonism, United Pentecostalism (and other Oneness churches), most Churches of Christ and Eastern Orthodoxy teach that final salvation is dependent on one being made righteous through a cooperative effort of one's own obedience. The instrumental causes of that obedience (infused righteousness) are water baptism and the additional issue of obedience that effects salvation. Some examples are:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) proclaim:

"We must be baptized for the remission of sins... to become members of the Church of Jesus Christ...before we can receive this gift of the Holy Ghost." (Gospel Principles, pp. 124, 127)
Most of the Churches of Christ (Campbellites) teach:

The blood of Christ isn't efficacious until one is baptized. Well known past church of Christ leaders David Lipscomb and E.G. Sewell wrote "Baptizing them into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit puts them into the enjoyment of all the blessings to be received in Christ, the blood of Christ, the remission of sins, the fellowship of God.... baptism is essential to entrance unto Christ. Water is the medium through which in baptism, we pass from a state of sin and condemnation into a state of acceptance and favor with God." (Questions Answered, pp. 36, 39-40, emphasis added)
Seventh-day Adventism officially teaches:

Jesus "required baptism of those who wished to become a part of His church," as a "necessity," to become effective," in order to produce "the subsequent spiritual relationship.(Seventh-day Adventists Believe, pp. 182, 183, 187, emphasis added)
Roman Catholicism officially teaches:

"The Lord Himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation… By baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as the punishment for sin… also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,' an adopted son of God… and a temple of the Holy Spirit.(Catechism of the Catholic Church, pp. 320, 322)

Note:

Some Episcopalians (Anglicanism) and Confessional Lutherans understand the regenerational nature of baptism in more conservative terms "either placing one within God's covenant" or "as it constitutes God's covenantal promise of Life." (Dictionary of Christianity in America, p. 106) But since these two bodies are so clear on justification by faith alone in Christ's finished work-His imputed righteousness, that we believe that their view on baptism is just an anomaly.

[Ronnie]

Biblical Response

The issue of baptismal regeneration is just the surface manifestation of a deeper issue. Is one justified by faith alone in Christ alone or in faith plus works? The Protestant and Reformational understanding of Scripture insists that Christ's perfect record, His righteousness, through the sole instrument of faith effects the work of Christ on one's behalf. Even faith is a gift.(1 Corinthians 1:30-31; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 12:2)

The heresy of the Judaizers and their distortion of the gospel,(Galatians 1:6-9, 2:4) "a different gospel," is the same issue present today. The Judaizers, then, as today were seeking to establish a requirement for covenant membership through law keeping, signs and seals (circumcision or baptism), in addition to faith in Christ, thus destroying grace.(Romans 11:6)

For the Protestant justifying righteousness is the alien righteousness of Christ which is imputed to the believer, who is declared or accounted righteous (justification) even though he is still a sinner. One is justified not on account of one's faith, but one is justified on account of Christ through the grace of God.

[Ronnie]

Justification

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[Ronnie]

One is not acceptable to God because one becomes good. We become good or better (good works - sanctification) as a result of being pronounced good and regenerated. Being brought into union with Christ (regeneration) through faith is when salvation is personalized. This is mediated by the Holy Spirit, Christ, and God coming into ones life and making one a new creation. The Bible refers to this act as being baptized by the Holy Spirit.(Mark 1:8) "By one Spirit we all are baptized into one body." (1 Corinthians 12:3,13)

Water baptism and spirit baptism are not simultaneous and the Scripture demonstrates that water baptism comes after salvation or union with Christ. In Acts 10, Peter was given a vision and the understanding from the Scripture that the Gentiles were also to come into the covenant of grace. He proceeded to the house of Cornelius and preached the content of the gospel to him.(Acts 10:34-43) Notice that the "gift of the Holy Spirit fell upon" them and then they were baptized in water as the new sign of the covenant replacing circumcision.(Colossians 2:11-12)

The fact that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the point of saving faith is abundantly clear from Acts 11:15-17. Also, Peter repeats this fact with even more detail in Acts 15:7-11, dispelling the typical attempt to evade this fact by theorizing that God must have done something unique in the case of the Gentiles. Peter makes it quite clear that there is only, and has been only, one way of salvation, the same for both Jews and Gentiles - faith alone in Christ alone.

[Ronnie]

Repeat
The fact that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the point of saving faith is abundantly clear from Acts 11:15-17. Also, Peter repeats this fact with even more detail in Acts 15:7-11, dispelling the typical attempt to evade this fact by theorizing that God must have done something unique in the case of the Gentiles. Peter makes it quite clear that there is only, and has been only, one way of salvation, the same for both Jews and Gentiles - faith alone in Christ alone.

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

<quoted text>
Let me put it this way: I belong to the true church. Where have I heard that before? My my you are sure using a lot of name calling.

I'm only applying the names where they fit. If you continue to lie about me and my beliefs, after I've pointed out you are incorrect, I will continue to state the obvious. It is not calling someone a name if it is describing their actions and their character truthfully.

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not sure I have ever referred specifically to John 3:16.
I can see that now you have shifted from an obedience for salvation to a faith doctrine. Why is your faith better than mine? We both obeyed the command for water salvation. I knew you would do this, your true colors are being revealed.

Which of your baptisms was the real one?

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

No where in the bible does it say that we must believe that water saves us, it ain't there. Just like there is no scripture which says we must believe that the denomination you are in is the true church.
We are told we must have faith in Christ and the cross.

I never said water saves us. Who did?

[Saban fan]

Ronnie wrote:

<quoted text>
That is the problem, you have no works that will be credited to your account, but you keep trying to say your form of worship is required. If I don't do worship exactly you I am lost according to you.
So, you rely on all those extra curricular loops you are by coc required, to jump through. You are a product of the restoration movement.

God has requested our worship. His way. Not MY way. Not MAN's way. Not YOUR way.

Me? I try to make sure it is His way.

You don't WANT to understand. I think you just WANT to be hard-headed and stubborn.

I have never damned anyone so don't say that I have! I don't do that. God will be our judge. He will decide. If I ever have point it out to me! All I do is point to the manner that has been given to us in scripture, without adding my own flavor and without diluting scripture or ignoring it. The doctorine I follow is only found by rightly dividing the Word of truth.