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Christine

San Diego, CA

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#1
Feb 17, 2011
 
Hi, I'm doing a research project on female Irish Travellers.

Does anyone know where they hang out/ live?

Thanks so much!!
Londoner

Leeds, UK

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#2
Feb 17, 2011
 

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I may be able to assist you, but why female travellers since there personal life and lifestyle is so closely tied to the male person they marry. So how can you study one without the other?
They are not gypsies but dipossessed Irish peasants commonly called tinkers. On the road 1850? many took to mending pots and pans, this trade was known as "a TINKER", so they became tinkers, a slang word. Tinkering with cars is a cousin word.
To understand what dispossessed [of land] means you need to Google search for THE historical 16th century Scottish and Irish Land clearances. They were poor imbecile people thrown off land they camped on [some had been there 50/100 years, this land was k/as freeland or common land [see Google common land UK]. The Lords came along and threw them off in order to control they said a peasant rabble, the real reason was to increase their land holdings and estates by killing a few and chasing the others away. In Europe it was called a pogrom. Jews were the unfortunates who got moved on.
I'd describe the male tinkers as poor school attenders, many are unable to read or write, highly argumentative, drunks, invariably self employed, they can't keep a job and getting up in the morning and working to a regular routine or hours defeats them. As you'd expect about 10% realise that there's no future in being a traveller or tinker so they go underground, they hide their identity. The best of them become self-made millionaires. Trades are carpet dealers, rug dealers, scrap dealers, rag dealers, car dealers and market traders. Ready cash men who rarely keep accounts and remain throughout most of their lives one man firms. Known for huge funerals, the latest fad is big Weddings. Search Google write ups on "My Big Fat Gypsy wedding", a TV program.
Famous gypsies [descended from] are few, Charles Chaplin, Sir Billy Butlin, Michael Caine actor, are all related to gypsies through forbears.
The women, some are quite attractive when young, but the life they lead, plus the fatty quality of the food they eat and add in smoking and drinking soons ruins there once good looks. They end up hard faced and suspicious. The Fbi have a file on the Williamses from Wales, quite a notorious crowd. The biggest problem is drink and drunkeness.
peckhampulse

London, UK

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#3
Feb 18, 2011
 
Londoner's contribution is a strange mixture of fact and prejudice. Where on earth does the word 'imbecile' come from ? They were poor, with no political, economic influence, starved by the potato blight and evicted to maintain profit for the landlords.
Jews were'moved on'. What! They were murdered by the million in gas chambers and camps; about 6 million in fact. Along with Gypsies, Gays, Communists, Trade Unionists and people with some physical and mental disabilities.
'My Gypsy Wedding' only represents a minority of Travellers who make good TV. Most Travellers now live in houses, have jobs and work like the rest of us. A minority still live in caravans and some a pretty feckless life as described but dont tarnish all Traveller because of the 'in your face' lives of a minority.
The Irish Travellers I read about in the USA seem to be that minority. To find the majority you would have to probably go to the Catholic Church or find social, welfare organisations for Travellers like we have in the UK and Ireland.
Pavee Point in Ireland and the Irish Travelleer Movement in the UK would be a start as well as reading Traveller Times which cater for both Traveller and Gypsy.
LondonerWandswor th

Leeds, UK

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#4
Feb 18, 2011
 
TO peckhampulse / see post above:
My synopsis was fair and highly accurate. After I wrote it I did a Google search for [search words>} "The Williams, USA Gypsy clan", I found nothing on them but found other posts from [1] a USA Gypsy Police Officer and [2] a non-gypsy Gypsy Site officer for an English council, both posts echoed mine, so all three of us agreed on my main points. You quite rightly pulled me up on using the word imbecile, you missed the point I was speaking about 1700 - 1900 gypsies, who were uneducated, rough, casual labourers, and devoid of good clothes or manners. There was nothing WRONG with their brains it was there customs and stupid things they do I was referring to.
Here's an example, painting a farmers barn with tar and telling him it was "Best bitumen paint worth 50-00 a drum". A clever man would have used the best paint, done an excellent job, used this barn as a show house barn, took dozens of orders, maybe hundreds from it and ended up with a buisness worth 1m.$2M dollars. They drew 250-00 by fraud and lost the opportunity to be millionaires. An imbecile does that.
ANECDOTE: I was driving along and saw some young men, a group ages 13 to 18, towing a 1 ton Ford Transit van, believe it or not they were using for a tow rope a "toilet cistern chain about 24 inches long". To stop the 2 vans [tow&pull] crashing into each other a young gypsy was standing in between them with his feet on both bumper bars keep them apart by leg power. I lent them a tow rope and called them all the U-idiot names I could think off. This is why 20% of all gypsies die young in road accidents. Many gypsies, 1 in 2, don't live to age 39.
* As for the Jews again you miss the point they were moved on between the year 1500-1930 period, some were murdered in Pogroms, it was not until H [spit-spit] took over in 1933 the mass killings commenced, of course you know that about 200 000 gypsies died in the camps, Section b11 Birkenau 1943/44. Read up on the Stetls.
May I add that I have complained about the program My Big Fat Gypsy wedding, and needless to say the producers and Channel 4 have had hundreds of complaints. The program shows Irish travellers in the way seen by others, unfair, YES, but what can you do.
Wandsworth

Leeds, UK

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#5
Feb 25, 2011
 
PECKHAM PULSE:
25/02/2011. Todays Daily Mail, reference the last episode of the tv programme M. B.F.G.W.
What the last programme didn't show was the riot that broke out at the end of the wedding in Leicester. It failed to mention the racecourse or the caterer did not get paid and the guests [sic] trashed the place, they also threw food all over in a food fight> The racecourse manager said: No more, no more gypsies ever. Now what do you have to say, you reproached me strongly for speaking out the truth, so how about YOUR retraction.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

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#7
Dec 29, 2011
 
American Irish gypsies and UK irish gypsies have many things in common...and many things not. We call them gypsies, because that is what they call themselves.
Travis

Minot, ND

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#8
Apr 15, 2012
 

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LondonerWandsworth wrote:
TO peckhampulse / see post above:
My synopsis was fair and highly accurate. After I wrote it I did a Google search for [search words>} "The Williams, USA Gypsy clan", I found nothing on them but found other posts from [1] a USA Gypsy Police Officer and [2] a non-gypsy Gypsy Site officer for an English council, both posts echoed mine, so all three of us agreed on my main points. You quite rightly pulled me up on using the word imbecile, you missed the point I was speaking about 1700 - 1900 gypsies, who were uneducated, rough, casual labourers, and devoid of good clothes or manners. There was nothing WRONG with their brains it was there customs and stupid things they do I was referring to.
Here's an example, painting a farmers barn with tar and telling him it was "Best bitumen paint worth 50-00 a drum". A clever man would have used the best paint, done an excellent job, used this barn as a show house barn, took dozens of orders, maybe hundreds from it and ended up with a buisness worth 1m.$2M dollars. They drew 250-00 by fraud and lost the opportunity to be millionaires. An imbecile does that.
ANECDOTE: I was driving along and saw some young men, a group ages 13 to 18, towing a 1 ton Ford Transit van, believe it or not they were using for a tow rope a "toilet cistern chain about 24 inches long". To stop the 2 vans [tow&pull] crashing into each other a young gypsy was standing in between them with his feet on both bumper bars keep them apart by leg power. I lent them a tow rope and called them all the U-idiot names I could think off. This is why 20% of all gypsies die young in road accidents. Many gypsies, 1 in 2, don't live to age 39.
* As for the Jews again you miss the point they were moved on between the year 1500-1930 period, some were murdered in Pogroms, it was not until H [spit-spit] took over in 1933 the mass killings commenced, of course you know that about 200 000 gypsies died in the camps, Section b11 Birkenau 1943/44. Read up on the Stetls.
May I add that I have complained about the program My Big Fat Gypsy wedding, and needless to say the producers and Channel 4 have had hundreds of complaints. The program shows Irish travellers in the way seen by others, unfair, YES, but what can you do.
Search the name Williamson because many of them had to change there names because they took the blame for everything other travellers done,they became well know as the terrible Williamsons about 50 years ago,so now most have changed there last name so they wouldnt be accused of everthing other travellers done,the newspaper would always say BEWARE OF THE TERRIBLE WILLIAMSON CLAN..so i hope this helps you
Mel Columcille Gibson

Miami, FL

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#9
May 17, 2012
 

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emaryyld wrote:
American Irish gypsies and UK irish gypsies have many things in common...and many things not. We call them gypsies, because that is what they call themselves.
Not in the States we don't.. And the Travellers I've met from Eire and Great Britain all call themselves Travellers as well..Why would we call ourselves Gypsies, when that refers to the Roma/Romanichel..This absurd famine start date for the Irish Travellers has come up a couple of times now .. I have family history in the U.S. to at least the 1840's..So it your contention our language came to be in that decade?..lol
emaryyld

Vancouver, WA

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#10
Jun 4, 2012
 
Mel Columcille Gibson wrote:
<quoted text>Not in the States we don't.. And the Travellers I've met from Eire and Great Britain all call themselves Travellers as well..Why would we call ourselves Gypsies, when that refers to the Roma/Romanichel..This absurd famine start date for the Irish Travellers has come up a couple of times now .. I have family history in the U.S. to at least the 1840's..So it your contention our language came to be in that decade?..lol
Mel, I was talking about people I know personally, who do refer to themselves as gypsy, that are not of Rom descent, but rather of Irish descent. Not sure why you are accusing to me making "contentions" about your language, or the famine, I never made reference to that.
Perhaps you are of the older generation? I am referring to younger travellers who do, in fact, call themselves gypsy. When I hear a IT say "I am a proud gypsy", or dress their child in a tshirt that reads "gypsy", well, then, that is the logical conclusion I come to. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just stating a fact, as it is a fact in my case.
peckhampulse

London, UK

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#11
Jun 4, 2012
 
emaryyld wrote:
<quoted text>
Mel, I was talking about people I know personally, who do refer to themselves as gypsy, that are not of Rom descent, but rather of Irish descent. Not sure why you are accusing to me making "contentions" about your language, or the famine, I never made reference to that.
Perhaps you are of the older generation? I am referring to younger travellers who do, in fact, call themselves gypsy. When I hear a IT say "I am a proud gypsy", or dress their child in a tshirt that reads "gypsy", well, then, that is the logical conclusion I come to. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just stating a fact, as it is a fact in my case.
It is true in the UK that some Irish Travellers have adopted the term gypsy as being easily substituted for Traveller. Sometimes it is because Gypsies are seen to have a slightly better reputation and more "rights" than Travellers and they see it as a generic term for all people who travel not as an ethnic definition. Either way it is confusing for non Travellers and Gypsies.

Since: Nov 10

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#12
Jun 4, 2012
 
peckhampulse wrote:
<quoted text> It is true in the UK that some Irish Travellers have adopted the term gypsy as being easily substituted for Traveller. Sometimes it is because Gypsies are seen to have a slightly better reputation and more "rights" than Travellers and they see it as a generic term for all people who travel not as an ethnic definition. Either way it is confusing for non Travellers and Gypsies.
the people i know who use it, do it because it it "cool" to them. Either way, it's their way of identifying, who am I to judge?

“come to Richie,, ”

Since: Nov 10

4-corners man

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#13
Jun 4, 2012
 
are they legal?
Mel Columcille Gibson

Hialeah, FL

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#14
Jun 7, 2012
 
emaryyld wrote:
<quoted text>
Mel, I was talking about people I know personally, who do refer to themselves as gypsy, that are not of Rom descent, but rather of Irish descent. Not sure why you are accusing to me making "contentions" about your language, or the famine, I never made reference to that.
Perhaps you are of the older generation? I referring to younger travellers who do, in fact, call themselves gypsy. When I hear a IT say "I am a proud gypsy", or dress their child in a tshirt that reads "gypsy", well, then, that is the logical conclusion I come to. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just stating a fact, as it is a fact in my case.
Well count me as thoroughly confused Emaryyld. on a totally different thread(Irish Travellers, White Settlement) You'd stated your last contact with the I.T.s was on your family farm in rural Eastern Washington state in 1963!.. I am a relatively young I.T., and I know no Irish Travellers young or old who refer to themselves as Gypsies, or Romanichel ... And I know, and am kin (close & distant) to I.T.s from Murphy's Village S.C., To Memphis, Tn., to Fort Worth, Tx... Which branch are you referencing?...

“Get to know the real Bruce”

Since: Jun 12

Tempe, AZ

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#15
Jun 7, 2012
 
i once went to a fair as a child in 1953. there was a very pretty gypsy lady there who told fortunes. she grabbed my hand and said "your life will be pain and struggle. you will see blood shed and will never know hap[piness!"
needless to say my father was pretty upset and he and his golf broke the windows of their caravans and beat some of the men up! a very good memory :)
peckhampulse

UK

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#16
Jun 7, 2012
 

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So Bruce the lesson you learn from your Dad and his friends was to beat people up when you disagree with them or they say something stupid. Very mature.
Mel Columcille Gibson

Hialeah, FL

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#17
Jun 8, 2012
 
peckhampulse wrote:
So Bruce the lesson you learn from your Dad and his friends was to beat people up when you disagree with them or they say something stupid. Very mature.
I believe the term for Bruce is Taking the Piss...lol
Driveway king

The Colony, TX

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#18
Jun 12, 2012
 
U stupid tinkers keep fighting to the other i be gettin the money. Go hump ur self at the silver$. East boys got it right.

Since: Nov 10

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#19
Jun 20, 2012
 
Mel Columcille Gibson wrote:
<quoted text>Well count me as thoroughly confused Emaryyld. on a totally different thread(Irish Travellers, White Settlement) You'd stated your last contact with the I.T.s was on your family farm in rural Eastern Washington state in 1963!.. I am a relatively young I.T., and I know no Irish Travellers young or old who refer to themselves as Gypsies, or Romanichel ... And I know, and am kin (close & distant) to I.T.s from Murphy's Village S.C., To Memphis, Tn., to Fort Worth, Tx... Which branch are you referencing?...
Mel, sorry it took so long, i rarely come on here. I am using my daughters handle, the reason I cam on here was because we started talking about the subject of travellers when that UK show was on tv. She did have some pretty negative views in the past, and we did some debating for a while. emaryyld is really her posting name, but I posted when she showed me the site, I had never really been on topix before the last few months, & was at her computer. I'll be getting my own username if I want to post anything else. I truly have no idea what branch it was, If I had to guess, maybe texas because it's closest to the oregon area, but I never really knew. I apologize for any confusion.
Shop local

Carrollton, TX

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#20
Aug 2, 2012
 
emaryyld wrote:
<quoted text>
Mel, sorry it took so long, i rarely come on here. I am using my daughters handle, the reason I cam on here was because we started talking about the subject of travellers when that UK show was on tv. She did have some pretty negative views in the past, and we did some debating for a while. emaryyld is really her posting name, but I posted when she showed me the site, I had never really been on topix before the last few months, & was at her computer. I'll be getting my own username if I want to post anything else. I truly have no idea what branch it was, If I had to guess, maybe texas because it's closest to the oregon area, but I never really knew. I apologize for any confusion.
You should not worry yourself with Mel or Tim Pat Coogan as he also goes by. On a couple of very sensitive forums even the Travellers have asked him to button his lip. Simply he draws to much negative attention to many Irish Travellers. They have even questioned wether he is or isn't a Traveller himself. They think he may be a plant just to stir the pot.
mak

Tempe, AZ

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#21
Oct 20, 2012
 
What a bunch of dumb asses

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