Breakaway congregations form new Anglican diocese

There are 26 comments on the seattletimes.nwsource.com story from Apr 4, 2009, titled Breakaway congregations form new Anglican diocese. In it, seattletimes.nwsource.com reports that:

At least eight conservative congregations in Western Washington - including two that left the Episcopal Church - are forming a new Anglican diocese in the Northwest.

The Cascadia Diocese, as it's being called, is the latest local example of the deep divisions splitting the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion over issues such as Scriptural authority and church teachings ...

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“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#21 Apr 9, 2009
KGC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division!"
Luke 12:51
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:34
KGC
I'm a Christian.

I agree.

He also said: "More wine ! Paulie, more wine!"

:)
Think Again

Dover, NC

#22 Apr 9, 2009
KGC wrote:
<quoted text>
"Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division!"
Luke 12:51
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:34
KGC
KGC,

I am very happy to see you quoting Holy Scripture. However, proper exegeses on the two similar verses you quote, with regards to the topic, deal with the cost of discipleship and only serve to strengthen my point.

There is a cost in being a disciple of Jesus and that cost is that one dies to their old ways and is ďrebornĒ into Christ. Once this happens, one typically is in conflict with not only others but oneís own self. Denying oneís self in submission to Godís will is the cost of leading a God centered life. The ultimate end of the Gospel is peace with God but in the interim there is conflict.

With that said, in the verse that I quoted, Paul is describing how the church should reflect the character of God. Godís character and nature is that of peace, harmony, order, and clarity not strife and confusion.

What we are witnessing within TEC is that many within your denomination are not willing to deny their self in submission to God with regards to many issues that His Word speaks clearly about. I am not just describing the homosexual issue but also abortion rights, Jesus as the only means of salvation, etc. This is where the strife and confusion come into play of which none of it is of God.

Scripture is very clear for all those who have ears to hear!!!!
KGC

Springfield, IL

#23 Apr 10, 2009
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
KGC,
I am very happy to see you quoting Holy Scripture. Scripture is very clear for all those who have ears to hear!!!!
TA,

What you have written is your opinion of the state of affairs and some of the causes of the difficulties being experienced within TEC.
But, if you don't think these same difficulties are being wrestled with in the RC Church, and almost all other denominations, you are showing an ignorance beyond naivete'.

There are many women within the RC Church, and some men, who are advocates for abortion rights. We would hope that advocacy for rights is as far as support goes. However, many Roman Catholics have had abortions, for whatever reasons. If they had not, the pope would have no reason to advocate policy about it, other than to make note of the practice by others as being very incorrect from the standpoint of the Christian view.

Mother Theresa called abortion a "Poverty." That is a very good characterization of an unspeakably terrible and traumatic choice made in great tribulation by a lot of women. Those who criticize others for having made this choice merely rub salt into the wound.

Strife and confusion surrounding homosexual issues are very much in evidence within many denominations, including and most definitely in the forefront of Roman Catholic dissension. Homosexuality is not only suspected, but is now understood to be rampant within the RC priesthood, despite all papal bull to the contrary.

Furthermore, pederasty has been found to be evident within elements of the RC priesthood and is now known to have been not only tolerated, but the practice of having the perpetrators quietly hidden and shuffled around has persisted for a very long time - perhaps centuries.

If you don't think these issues are causing division and dissension in Roman Catholic ranks, you are dangerously naive.

Who or what then, is the Sword?

TEC is unique in openly trying these issues in the light of the loving compassion as well as in the light of Truth leading to sometimes violent divisiveness.

For eons, no one in any theological vein openly discussed and then wrote down the products of discussion regarding issues such as homosexuality. Likewise, everyone has always known that abortion is a violent prevention of an established life.

The Spartans knew when a physically defective child was born? So do modern couples who subject a fetus to an amnio sampling to look for certain congenital defects. Why take such samples if not for information with which to decide the fate of the child?

Just how many of these tests are taken at hospitals that are ostensibly RC?

You post in response to mine is either very naive to the point of a self-deluding ignorance - or - it is plainly hypocritical, condescending and facetious.

Which is it, TA? You make the call.
KGC
Think Again

Dover, NC

#24 Apr 10, 2009
KGC wrote:
<quoted text>
TA,
What you have written is your opinion of the state of affairs and some of the causes of the difficulties being experienced within TEC.
But, if you don't think these same difficulties are being wrestled with in the RC Church, and almost all other denominations, you are showing an ignorance beyond naivete'.
There are many women within the RC Church, and some men, who are advocates for abortion rights. We would hope that advocacy for rights is as far as support goes. However, many Roman Catholics have had abortions, for whatever reasons. If they had not, the pope would have no reason to advocate policy about it, other than to make note of the practice by others as being very incorrect from the standpoint of the Christian view.
Mother Theresa called abortion a "Poverty." That is a very good characterization of an unspeakably terrible and traumatic choice made in great tribulation by a lot of women. Those who criticize others for having made this choice merely rub salt into the wound.
Strife and confusion surrounding homosexual issues are very much in evidence within many denominations, including and most definitely in the forefront of Roman Catholic dissension. Homosexuality is not only suspected, but is now understood to be rampant within the RC priesthood, despite all papal bull to the contrary.
Furthermore, pederasty has been found to be evident within elements of the RC priesthood and is now known to have been not only tolerated, but the practice of having the perpetrators quietly hidden and shuffled around has persisted for a very long time - perhaps centuries.
If you don't think these issues are causing division and dissension in Roman Catholic ranks, you are dangerously naive.
Who or what then, is the Sword?
TEC is unique in openly trying these issues in the light of the loving compassion as well as in the light of Truth leading to sometimes violent divisiveness.
For eons, no one in any theological vein openly discussed and then wrote down the products of discussion regarding issues such as homosexuality. Likewise, everyone has always known that abortion is a violent prevention of an established life.
The Spartans knew when a physically defective child was born? So do modern couples who subject a fetus to an amnio sampling to look for certain congenital defects. Why take such samples if not for information with which to decide the fate of the child?
Just how many of these tests are taken at hospitals that are ostensibly RC?
You post in response to mine is either very naive to the point of a self-deluding ignorance - or - it is plainly hypocritical, condescending and facetious.
Which is it, TA? You make the call.
KGC
KGC,

Within your long winded diatribe you still have proven my point. Although many of these same issues are in fact being wrestled with in other denominations, they are not being blessed as a perfectly fine way of life except in the most liberal denominations that have all but discarded Godís Word and replaced it with the new-age theology that is most evident in TEC. A denomination cannot control what its members or priests do but collectively it can decide to follow Scripture and not bless what is clearly sin.

Homosexuality, pederasty and abortions are all common for members and some priests of the RCC but the Pope is not going against Godís Word and blessing these things. The RCC is holding firm to Godís written word and encouraging its members to do the same.

While I am not RC, I do respect their stance on these issues and feel that it is a Biblically based doctrine. That is more than I can say for TEC.

Sorry but I am neither naive nor hypocritical. It is far more hypocritical for TEC to call itself a Christian religion than anything I have said. Also, it is far more naive to stay in a church that has all but forsaken the faith once delivered to the saints and expect it to turn out all right in the end!!!!
Think Again

Dover, NC

#25 Apr 10, 2009
KGC wrote:
<quoted text>
TA,
What you have written is your opinion of the state of affairs and some of the causes of the difficulties being experienced within TEC.

You post in response to mine is either very naive to the point of a self-deluding ignorance - or - it is plainly hypocritical, condescending and facetious.
Which is it, TA? You make the call.
KGC
KGC,

Within your long winded diatribe you still have proven my point. Although many of these same issues are in fact being wrestled with in other denominations, they are not being blessed as a perfectly fine way of life except in the most liberal denominations that have all but discarded Godís Word and replaced it with the new-age theology that is most evident in TEC. A denomination cannot control what its members or priests do but collectively it can decide to follow Scripture and not bless what is clearly sin.

Homosexuality, pederasty and abortions are all common for members and some priests of the RCC but the Pope is not going against Godís Word and blessing these things. The RCC is holding firm to Godís written word and encouraging its members to do the same.

While I am not RC, I do respect their stance on these issues and feel that it is a Biblically based doctrine. That is more than I can say for TEC.

Sorry but I am neither naive nor hypocritical. It is far more hypocritical for TEC to call itself a Christian religion than anything I have said. Also, it is far more naive to stay in a church that has all but forsaken the faith once delivered to the saints and expect it to turn out all right in the end!!!!
KGC

Springfield, IL

#26 Apr 13, 2009
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
KGC,
Within your long winded diatribe you still have proven my point. Although many of these same issues are in fact being wrestled with in other denominations, they are not being blessed as a perfectly fine way of life except in the most liberal denominations that have all but discarded Godís Word and replaced it with the new-age theology that is most evident in TEC. A denomination cannot control what its members or priests do but collectively it can decide to follow Scripture and not bless what is clearly sin.
Homosexuality, pederasty and abortions are all common for members and some priests of the RCC but the Pope is not going against Godís Word and blessing these things. The RCC is holding firm to Godís written word and encouraging its members to do the same.
While I am not RC, I do respect their stance on these issues and feel that it is a Biblically based doctrine. That is more than I can say for TEC.
Sorry but I am neither naive nor hypocritical. It is far more hypocritical for TEC to call itself a Christian religion than anything I have said. Also, it is far more naive to stay in a church that has all but forsaken the faith once delivered to the saints and expect it to turn out all right in the end!!!!
TA,

I thought you were RC. I stand corrected and apologize for the mistake.

I grew up in TEC and still do attend. There are aspects of its theology and conduct of which I either disagree or sometimes have differences. But, overall, its a very good group and stands in a traditional line of Christ's disciples.

You mischaracterize TEC by inferring that its leadership supports abortion. No. Its leadership, with reservations, supports a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.

There is a world of difference between these positions. The choice made to have an abortion cannot be anything but a devastating choice and almost always only made under the conditions of an awful dilemma.

But, a woman who has made such a choice needs our loving understanding; not our condemnation.

You make a mistake, in my opinion, by tossing homosexuality into the same sentence with pederasty and abortion, implying all are anti-Christian behavior. That may be your opinion. If so, it is not well-founded.

The RCC has always held that its council of guidance can interpret scripture in light of its own whim. Not so with TEC. TEC specifically rests its authority with scripture. The position is good, not perfect, because of revealed truth which improves our understanding of reality. Frankly, they both use the same tools. But, TEC places the ultimate responsibility with the ultimate minority, the individual.

Finally, if you don't like being characterixed as being either naively ignorant or hypocritical, stop talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Otherwise, you leave no other possible impression. Just the same, you are forgiven for it, as it is a decidedly human trait.

Happy Easter,

KGC

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