are you sure

Poplar Bluff, MO

#41 Sep 14, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the Bible MAKES UP things about the spiritual realm, of which there is no evidence for to begin with.
<quoted text>
There is no evidence for such a location.
The Bible was written years ago by holy men who received instruction from God. A lot of it is spiritually discerned. As for evidence and a known location, that is where faith comes in. We believe it's true. That makes it personal, because we are to search out our own salvation. We are told to go and tell. It's not up to us to convince you, just to tell you.
are you sure

Poplar Bluff, MO

#42 Sep 14, 2012
Bad things happen to us in this life, but is a short time too much to ask to carry an innocent child? Would you kill it and 80 or possibly 90 years of life just to save yourself a few months of misery? Selfish and mean, that's what I would call a person who gets an abortion. And yes, they will be punished for it. People are up in arms over animal abuse and should be, but would go out and rid themselves of a baby with no qualms.
nee_to_know

Williamsville, MO

#43 Sep 14, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly care about what is factually true, your word salad outside.
Tell me by what method one discovers 'truth', as opposed to knowledge.
Truth is exclusive and absolute. It is discerned an not learned like knowledge. To find absolute truth you must be willing to seek ALL possible answers, and not have an ounce of prejudice toward or against any one answer. You must weigh each possibility against a formerly discerned truth and build upon those truths.

An example: Who was Jesus Christ? Was he a real person or was he fictional? If the answer you give leads to another question that has two or more possibilities, then you are possibly moving away from the truth since truth is exclusive. If your answer leads to only one possible outcome, then you are moving in the direction of truth. I like to call this the funnel effect. If you are seeking and moving in the direction of the truth, you should have fewer and fewer possible answers as you go along. But remember, this only works if you consider ALL possible answers without prejudice. This is not an easy thing to do and it takes some serious thought and reasoning.

Let's say that you answered the above question that Jesus was a fictional character. My next question to you would be then why did someone write stories about him and why do people die for believing in him to this very day. How many people die for Santa Clause each year? I can come up with about a dozen or so more questions just based upon how I answered the last question. So, do people die for things they don't truly believe in?

I am not touting this process to be an exact science since I don't know everything about everything. I am limited in my overall knowledge, but, start with what you know, research what you don't, arrive at a conclusion without prejudice. I hope this helps you in your search for the absolute truth.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#44 Sep 15, 2012
are you sure wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible was written years ago by holy men who received instruction from God. A lot of it is spiritually discerned. As for evidence and a known location, that is where faith comes in. We believe it's true. That makes it personal, because we are to search out our own salvation. We are told to go and tell. It's not up to us to convince you, just to tell you.
Given that you have no evidence, why do you expect anyone to believe you?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#45 Sep 15, 2012
nee_to_know wrote:
<quoted text>
An example: Who was Jesus Christ? Was he a real person or was he fictional? If the answer you give leads to another question that has two or more possibilities, then you are possibly moving away from the truth since truth is exclusive. If your answer leads to only one possible outcome, then you are moving in the direction of truth.
How do you figure this method is effective at all? For example, either answer (real person or fictional) to your sample question can produce numerous followup questions.

Why not use an evidence-based standard?
nee_to_know wrote:
Let's say that you answered the above question that Jesus was a fictional character. My next question to you would be then why did someone write stories about him and why do people die for believing in him to this very day. How many people die for Santa Clause each year? I can come up with about a dozen or so more questions just based upon how I answered the last question. So, do people die for things they don't truly believe in?
People write stories about unreal characters all the time. This is true of every other deity, for you.

People die for their religion because they are irrational. They DO believe in it. But belief says nothing about whether or not what they believe is true.
are you sure

Poplar Bluff, MO

#46 Sep 15, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Given that you have no evidence, why do you expect anyone to believe you?
There is evidence all around if one chooses to see and believe. Used to it was easy as most people believed in God. Now, all we can do is pray and tell. It's getting harder as there are so many resisters to the faith. The sad thing is we believers are happy believing which has it's own reward, but non believers may not be so happy in the eternity if we are right and they are wrong.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#47 Sep 15, 2012
are you sure wrote:
<quoted text>There is evidence all around if one chooses to see and believe.
Then present such evidence.
are you sure wrote:
Used to it was easy as most people believed in God. Now, all we can do is pray and tell. It's getting harder as there are so many resisters to the faith.
No more groupthink :(
are you sure wrote:
The sad thing is we believers are happy believing which has it's own reward, but non believers may not be so happy in the eternity if we are right and they are wrong.
It is equally likely that non-believers will be sent to 'heaven' and believers sent to 'hell'.
need_to_know

Williamsville, MO

#48 Sep 16, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure this method is effective at all? For example, either answer (real person or fictional) to your sample question can produce numerous followup questions.
Why not use an evidence-based standard?
<quoted text>
People write stories about unreal characters all the time. This is true of every other deity, for you.
People die for their religion because they are irrational. They DO believe in it. But belief says nothing about whether or not what they believe is true.
Within all this there also has to be some faith. Evidence and faith don't go hand in hand, they oppose each other.

Let me ask you this, what evidence do you have that an all powerful God does not exist?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#49 Sep 16, 2012
need_to_know wrote:
<quoted text>
Within all this there also has to be some faith. Evidence and faith don't go hand in hand, they oppose each other.
Let me ask you this, what evidence do you have that an all powerful God does not exist?
The burden of proof is not on me. It's on you.

The complete lack of evidence for the claim, when evidence would be expected, is sufficient reason to reject the claim.
are you sure

Poplar Bluff, MO

#50 Sep 16, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The burden of proof is not on me. It's on you.
The complete lack of evidence for the claim, when evidence would be expected, is sufficient reason to reject the claim.
I know you are speaking to someone else, but why do you have to have evidence to believe in something? For instance, there are many things you believe in and don't have evidence. You believe the sun will shine again, yet you really don't know for sure. How do you know for sure that you really exist and are not dreaming it all? Maybe you will wake up someday to another existence, or not wake up at all. Who knows for sure? As for me and my house, we will believe in God and that if we exist so does He.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#51 Sep 16, 2012
are you sure wrote:
<quoted text>I know you are speaking to someone else, but why do you have to have evidence to believe in something?
Because the alternative is insanity.

If you were a juror and there was no evidence to convict, would you vote 'guilty' anyway?

If someone tried to sell you his invention he says could make you fly, would you buy it without any evidence that it worked?
are you sure wrote:
For instance, there are many things you believe in and don't have evidence. You believe the sun will shine again, yet you really don't know for sure.
Huh? There's overwhelming evidence the sun will shine again tomorrow. The Earth is turning just as it was before. It's orbiting the sun just as it was before. The sun has plenty of life left in it.
did i say that

Poplar Bluff, MO

#52 Sep 16, 2012
And there is evidence that God exists more than you do. How do you know that someone or something won't knock the Earth out of the sky at any time? You don't. And maybe, you are just dreaming.(or insane) Who really knows for sure?
are you sure

Poplar Bluff, MO

#53 Sep 16, 2012
We can tell ourselves anything we want, but it still comes down to what we think and believe. I choose to have faith in God and his word. I don't have to convince you either.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#54 Sep 16, 2012
did i say that wrote:
And there is evidence that God exists more than you do.
No, there isn't. If there was, you'd present it.
did i say that wrote:
How do you know that someone or something won't knock the Earth out of the sky at any time? You don't.
I don't have to. My position is still rational and evidence-based.

Where am I going to be tomorrow? I say at work, you say on Mars. My position is the reasonable one, even if there is a possibility that Martians could kidnap me tonight.
did i say that

Poplar Bluff, MO

#55 Sep 16, 2012
I don't have to present it, although I have seen things that others would swear that I was insane. Are you sure about all you say? You still may be dreaming. And why would you say that I would say you would be on Mars?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#56 Sep 16, 2012
did i say that wrote:
I don't have to present it
You do if you expect anyone to take your position seriously.
did i say that wrote:
Are you sure about all you say? You still may be dreaming.
That's an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It holds no value.
did i say that wrote:
And why would you say that I would say you would be on Mars?
It was an analogy for our positions.
IMO

United States

#57 Sep 16, 2012
It's so sad that a discussion concerning right to life evolves into a discussion about religion...
IMO

United States

#58 Sep 16, 2012
Take "god" out of the title and lets talk abortion...
read the bible

Poplar Bluff, MO

#59 Sep 16, 2012
If you read the old testament, you will find that the penalty for causing a miscarriage is much less than the penalty for killing a woman or a slave or a free man. According to the bible, a fetus is not the same as a person, it's even less of a person than a slave or a woman.
understand your bible

Poplar Bluff, MO

#60 Sep 16, 2012
read the bible wrote:
If you read the old testament, you will find that the penalty for causing a miscarriage is much less than the penalty for killing a woman or a slave or a free man. According to the bible, a fetus is not the same as a person, it's even less of a person than a slave or a woman.
You are apparently referring to EX. 21:22. which refers to accidentally causing the injury or death of a child of a woman whose husband is fighting another man. This is a bit different that deliberately killing a fetus, or the slaughtering of them in abortion clinics. You should understand what you read. The Bible tells us what happens to murderers.

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