Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71944 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.


Mumbai, India

#47804 Jan 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
Joel - what happened to post 97?
I dunno, Papa.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47810 Jan 25, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
I dunno, Papa.
was it yours?

Mumbai, India

#47815 Jan 25, 2013
I'm full, now.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47817 Jan 25, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody's perfect.
rabbee: yeah but not even patheticly close, you must admit is highly rediculpous. and i do no accept the idea, that nobody can become perfect. since they have managed, to become the perfect opposite.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47818 Jan 25, 2013
JOEL wrote:
I'm full, now.
rabbee for more than a year, people have been telling you that same thing. and you, just now reaized it?

Kingston, Jamaica

#47819 Jan 25, 2013
former res wrote:
I'll defend to the death Huggy's right to post babble and/or drivel,
Let his posts stand!!
You're too sweet and kind, my dear.

Much love from Jamaica.

Kingston, Jamaica

#47820 Jan 25, 2013
former res wrote:
I should lighten up.
Come back please, Huggybear.
We promise not to take you too seriously.
:)) I slay me!
I'll be here all week...tip your waiters...
Former---Come back please, Huggybear.

HughBe-- I'll never leave you, my love.

Kingston, Jamaica

#47821 Jan 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not the author? Did someone else write your post for you?
I said you were class CONSCIOUS. i.e. you were conscious of class distinctions. Obviously you are, or you would of never made that observation.
How much haughtiness or arrogance is imputed by that observation is a secondary, but related discussion.
Please STUDY my post as you have not grasped the true meaning of the words.

If I were class conscious in the way that you are speaking I would NEVER have attended those two churches.

I would have gone to churches where the majority are professionals/business people and YES there are those types of churches.

(Recall the churches have a majority of members who are literally semi-literate at best.)

Kingston, Jamaica

#47822 Jan 25, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words:
"Once again I am not responsible for my words because I only stated these words, I did not invent/create them."
<quoted text>
"I prove every weekend that I am not an elitist becasue I go to a church that is not exclusively populated by rich, white people."
Double moron.
Folly forgiven

Kingston, Jamaica

#47823 Jan 25, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
"According to the 2001 census, the majority of Jamaica's population is of African descent (referring to those who have origins mainly in Africa)."
Do straighten your hair? Bleach your skin?
Pretend to like girls?
<quoted text>
Constantly full of shxt.
"Norther" star?
<quoted text>
Remind me with specific examples.
<quoted text>
Thank you. You hate that I actually remember your words.
You don't want to be accountable for your own drivel.
Too bad for you.
<quoted text>
This is your pattern.
To which I previously referred.
Go back and re-read my words.
Former--And no doubt some of your best friends are black people.

HughBe--- Knowing your understanding of BEST I would say close friends. Most of my dear friends are white given that whites form the majority of the Jamaican population.

Former--"According to the 2001 census, the majority of Jamaica's population is of African descent (referring to those who have origins mainly in Africa)."

HughBe--- don't believe everything that you read. I live here.

Former--Do straighten your hair? Bleach your skin?
Pretend to like girls?

HughBe--- Oh YES, YES and YES, respectively.

Former--Do you really expect this entire history of your own words to now be overlooked? This is your pattern of making statements and then attempting to suddenly disavow your own words.

HughBe--- I am CONSTANT as the Norther Star.

Former--Constantly full of shxt.

HughBe--- You unwittingly left off the ? mark and the answer is NO to your question.

Former--"Norther" star?

HughBe--- Yes, genius. Get understanding it was a typo try adding the letter N at the end.

Former--You forgot that some of us actually remember you and your words.

HughBe-- I have not forgotten that it is the habit of some to FABRICATE and to FALSELY attribute words to others.

Former--Remind me with specific examples.

HughBe--- your current claim in one.

Mumbai, India

#47824 Jan 25, 2013

1) Thou shall not commit incest.

2) Thou shall not indulge in hypogamy.

3) Thou shall not indulge in inbreeding.

4) Thou shall not murder nor eat the flesh of animals nor birds nor fish which is unsuited for humans and which carry the vibes of murder and suffering that can mentally destabilize the consumer and make him diseased and vulnerable to asuric force influences.

5) Thou shall not undertake animal and human sacrifices.

6) Thou shall not perceive Godhead as independent of the Manifestation.

7) Thou shall make self-realization the sacred and highest aim of life.

8) Thou shall take initiation from a Master of Self-Realization.

9) Thou shall try to rectify or dissolve the ill-effects of perverse patterns of karma, heredity and past birth via supramentalization.

10) Thou shall not practice circumcision as the destructive act of cutting off the foreskin destroys the thousands of sensitive nerve endings in the foreskin and this then sends a searing shock through the nervous system that unbalances and desensitizes the brain centers.

11) Thou - males and females - shall not indulge in anal sex as this perverse act destabilizes the nerve currents and thereby contributes to unbalancing the mind-body equation.

12) Thou shalt eat vegetarian food that's karma-free and beneficial to the being.

13) Thou shall not imbibe spirits as alcohol damages the vital organs, brain tissue and its vibes put one's consciousness in contact with the perverse beings of the lower vital.

14) Thou shall keep a separate set of clothes for use in the washroom during defecation as the foul odors, gases and germs cling to the body and clothes and can spread all over the house or office and also pollute food. So, use a separate set of clothes when visiting the toilet for defecation and thereafter wash the clothes and bathe or swab the body with water. The hands and organ should also be washed after making su su (urination).

15) Thou shall not pick up weapons except in self-defense but the best thing would be if thou could be in direct contact with the Higher Force at all times so that all opposition and the perverse force influences created by the hostile vital powers in the minds of the opposition and vicinity get dissolved with the result being that the opposition is tamed without resorting to cruelty, bloodshed and enmity.

16) Thou shall not wear stitched clothes as seamless garments made of natural fibers do not distort the force fields of the body and do not upset the perpetual exchange of forces between the person and his environment.

17) Thou shall not wear leather products as the vibes of leather unbalance the equilibrium and rhythms of the vital forces in the being and pollute it with vibes of murder and suffering.

And many more.....

Mumbai, India

#47825 Jan 25, 2013

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#47826 Jan 25, 2013
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-46

The Case of Social boycott of KA’B BIN MALIK:

The case of KA’B BIN MALIK and his repentance, if not unique, is extremely rare to find in the annals of religious history of the world. There are important lessons in it for both Muslims and Non Muslims. We are fortunate that KA’B BIN MALIK has himself narrated this incident.

Before we present excerpts from that, I would like to clarify the situation of this Compaign and its criticality for the survival of Nascent Islamic state of Madina.

A. Time period of Tabuk Compaign:

1. This happened in the year 10 H, the year before last year of Prophet’s life. By that Time, Makkah had been conquered and most people of Arabia had entered into Islam.

2. Tribes which had not became Muslim, accepted the authority of Muslims and made treaties of obedience with the prophet. For perhaps the first time in the history of Arabia, whole country was joined under the rule of one authority.

3. There was internal peace in Arabia, but adjoining the Land of Arabia, there were two vast empires of Persia and Byzantine.

4. When Arabs were divided into tribes and clans and fought with each other, these two empires did not give any importance to Arabia or Arabs. But ever since the mission of prophet started and specially after his migration to Madina and Islamic state getting stronger day by day, caused some anxiety in these neighboring superpowers.

5. In the year 6 AH, Prophet sent letters to the rulers of Persia and Byzantine and addressing them on equal terms and asking them “Accept Islam and you will save yourself”. This was “Too much a jolt” to these rulers who never expected an Arab to address them like that!!

6. Persian ruler, sent communiqué to his Governor in Yemen to arrest “this prophet” and send him to Persia. But before the decree could be enforced, he was killed by his own son and the idea was forgotten.

7. Byzantine ruler on the other hand thought of invading Madina and finish this “emerging danger” before it could cause real harm. He started preparation to enlist services of a large army experienced in desert warfare to invade Madina and finish this chapter of Prophethood..

B. Prophet’s preparation for Tabuk Expedition:

1. Prophet had his informers all around Arabia who used to inform him about what was being planned, so the information of a large Byzantine Army to invade Madina reached prophet well in time.

2. In a most prudent and brave decision, prophet thought it fit to take the battles to Byzantine themselves. He decided to march to border town of Tabuk and prevent enemies of Islam into invading Islamic lands.

3. Since this was a real fight against a Superpower of that time, prophet sent open invitation to every one to join in this expedition. It became a test of faith to join this compaign. No one but a known Hypocrite or invalid excused himself from joining this compaign.

4. It was a harsh time for outside compaign, the heat wave was at peak, Harvest time for dates was very close, the distance was more than 800 KM and the enemy was Byzantine Empire. It was a supreme test of faith, patience and perseverance.

5. To cut a long story short, prophet left with an army of 30,000 of Muslims to Tabuk. He reached and waited there but, he found out that the news of Byzantine invasion was not true (or the enemy did not think it fit to confront Muslims at this time).

6. Prophet and Muslims returned to Madina safe and unharmed and every one in the neighboring land was amazed at the daring of Prophet (that within 20 years after this event, Muslims captured the most of empires of Persia and Byzantine is another story).

Now back to our story of KA’B BIN MALIK in his own words:(abridged and translated into English)


Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#47827 Jan 25, 2013
KA’B BIN MALIK narrates :

Back Ground:

1. I was one of the earliest converts to Islam from Madina and I always accompanied the prophet during his various campaigns.

2. I only missed the Battle of Badr, because it was not clear when prophet left Madina that he is going to fight Makkan army. It was thought that prophet’s target is the Caravan of QURAISH….

3. When the time of Tabuk expedition came, I was very comfortable physically and financially. I had two well fed she camels, ready for journey and I also had horses.

4. It was only lethargy on my part that prevented me from going along side the prophet. I thought that let me stay for a few days and then I would move and catch the prophet en route.

5. The days changed into weeks and I could only find, old and aged people and those who were known hypocrites living in Madina.

6. I was feeling shame, but now there was no way in which I could catch the prophet en route. I waited for prophet’s return.

Prophet’ return:

7. Prophet returned from the expedition, and as was his custom, he stayed in Mosque and those who left behind came and presented their excuses. All hypocrites came forwarded and said their excuses and prophet pardoned them and said nothing.

8. I also came forward and told the prophet “I can also make excuses, but I know that Allah will bring my lies in the open, so I confess that I have no excuse whatsoever. I ask forgiveness from Allah for my mistake”

9. Prophet said “You have spoken the truth, now go back to your home and wait for Allah’ decision”

10. I was told that two other Muslims had told the same thing as me and were also given orders to go home and wait for Allah’ forgiveness.

Boycott Begins:

11. Prophet gave instructions that No Muslim was to speak to us or deal with us in any matter. In one instance we became the outcast of the land.

12. My other two fellows took to their houses and spent their time in weeping and praying to Allah. I was strong and I used to go to prophet’s mosque, pray with him and see his reactions. I found that when I looked at him, he did not look at me. But when I was looking elsewhere, he would look at me.

13. My life became miserable. At the end of thirty days, prophet sent me a word to send my wife to her parents. I asked if I was to divorce her, the answer came “No, but stay away from her”.

14. At the end of 40 days, I found a trader from Syria , looking for me in market place. He gave me a letter from Christian ruler, sympathizing with me and asking me to come to them and I would be most welcome.

15. I wept and burned the letter and cried to Allah that my disgrace has reached so far away.

End of Boycott:

16. It was after 50 days that our trial ended. Allah accepted our repentance and revealed verses pardoning us.

17. I went to prophet, his face was shining, and he congratulated me on my faith and perseverance and recited the verses to me. I wanted to donate my whole wealth, but prophet asked me to give away only 1/3rd in charity. I thank Allah and his messenger for saving me from this trial.

Quranic verses revealed on this occasion are”(He turned in mercy also) to the three who were left behind:(they felt guilty) to such a degree that the earth seemed constrained to them, for all its spaciousness, and their (very)souls seemed straitened to them: and they perceived that there is no fleeing from Allah (and no refuge) but to Himself, then He turned to them, that they might repent: for Allah if oft-forgiving Most Merciful”(9:118)

What an strange and marvellous story!!
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#47829 Jan 25, 2013

Your return to the forum is disappointing.

Post something interesting.

Perhap some example of original thinking...

Waiting on pins and needles.

Tewksbury, MA

#47830 Jan 25, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain the change?
When does equilibrium come about?
How do you come to such a quick conclusion? I said things are moving towards equillibrium, not that things are at EQ. I don't explain the changes nor can you. I don't know when EQ comes. Educate me.

Tewksbury, MA

#47831 Jan 25, 2013
Cor: some Christian sects refer to others as "not true Christians". It's the old "No True Scottsman" logical fallacy.
Idgaf: nothing to do with my mother or father's religious choices. I choose to look and differentiate between catholics and non-catholics. The way of life is quite different. Yes, it may sound incorrect or biased, but it's my bias.
Cor: Same argument I was making. But again, the POSSIBILITY of something existing doesn't make it so in reality. "Feeling" that something exists doesn't make it so in reality. So, where do you draw the line? You "like to think" or "have a feeling" that there is a higher power. And there are people that "like to think" or "have a feeling" about various other things existing, such as Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny, etc...
Idgaf: a feeling ... A thought ... Can you really differentiate? Jesus ... Santa Claus ... The Easter Bunny ... Bugs Bunny ... All characters from stories ... Or are they? Where do you draw the line? Where do I draw the line? Does it matter? Why think about it? Why worry?
Cor: I prefer to focus on the provable.
Idgaf: so u mentioned u r an athiest ... Don't believe in God or a God or a Higher Power ... Were u born an athiest? At what point in time did you begin to question the stories? For me, it was very early on, again, not claiming to be an athiest 'cause I feel there is something out there somewhere ... How did you come to the conclusion that the provable was your mission in life? What provable things matter? Which don't?
Cor: Labels can be useful. Your thinking is not completely unique. I've heard your position and arguments many times before from agnostic theists.
Idgaf: I don't claim uniqueness ... Just being honest and real ...
Cor: Rather than run away from the lablel, you should embrace it, understand it, and perhaps reach out to other like-minded individuals to see how they address the same questions you are dealing with.
Idgaf: I have no need for a label, but thanks ... Honestly, I don't feel a sense for needing to understand this as my position will not change unless I find another position or influence that shows me that my thinking is flawed ... Dealing with the questions, my intent is to pose the questions to you as you've said seeing what others think, but they don't keep me up at night ...
Idgaf: I'm good w saying I don't know, do it all the time ... Why make up a thoguth or a position just to have one?
Cor: So your higher power is nature? Sounds like you're drifting into a somewhat panthesitic worldview.
Idgaf: nope ... My point there is that these things are more powerful and greater than I ... Are they my gods? No ... What causes these things? Does something control them? Provoke them? Is it just the old house creeking and settling in the night (earth)? These are some of the questions ...
Idgaf: I have enjoyed the questions and the discussion to this point. I am glad to see someoen with points not based on stories ...

Mumbai, India

#47832 Jan 26, 2013
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>

I said things are moving towards equillibrium, not that things are at EQ. I don't explain the changes nor can you. I don't know when EQ comes. Educate me.
Think, a little deeply.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#47834 Jan 26, 2013
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>
It's hard to tell the difference between arrogance and simple stupidity, you're not there yet. We write stuff we don't intend to sometimes. Happens to me all the time.
God in a glass/cube can be tested by raising a child in isolation through full growth. No languages, no religions, no numbers. Pure isolation will most likely yield what the American Indians were or close to it. As long as the great conquistadores don't come and show him/her the errors of his/her way, I think we'd find that the child wouldn't know God. But then again, what if after 18 yrs in the cube, the kid immediately knows God and Jesus? Would be a good experiment, not very nice, but still a good experiment.
I bet we could learn a lot of things and possibly prove some things one way or the other.
I am still looking for someone to explain to me why Jesus didn't manifest Himself to the American Indians and to many others. Doesn't seem to be something that is written in the books. An all powerful God would have reached out to all. Pick Jesus and the Jews to tell the world he was here? I probably have this all mixed up. The catholic religion?
Things to ponder. What if there is no God? What if the stories we read were tainted with man's self-interests? If there is a God, do we expect Him/Her to be like us?
Skipping some pages.
I came upon this remark (apart from things in the torah, the exodus book on when also the mispath i.e. civil law was given, that are called chok, as in can not be understood by mankind, like f.i. shabbos or the parable about the heifer that seems to make what is pure tamei, and what is tamei -unpure- pure.) that Rashi did not mention honour thy father and mother because it was self-evident to do, but at the same time leaving the puzzle as to when that was stated before or even whether that was so self-evident since i take it to mean keep what is good in your tradition and remember that. As in not everything was written down.

I would look at what is left of native-america's traditions to find out what ideas vigorated also in the larger world thousands of years ago. Let's say our genetic forebears.
But as to either kids or gods in a glass (some line in the gospel compares spirit to strong drink) and some people like Hugh Be here who seem to know it all, but live in denial:

The Torah characterizes a person as a sinner against his soul when he denies himself wine in pursuit of a spiritual level that is beyond his grasp.

Tewksbury, MA

#47836 Jan 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Think, a little deeply.
I'm still trying to digest the BS on your 17 commandments ... I think I'll pass, but just for fun I'll comment on your 17 crazy thoughts

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