Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

FR,
Re: our discussions on settlements
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/12/06/31...

I can't pretend to have any real understanding of this issue.

The whole thing just sounds like intractable clusterfxck from day one.

It seems eveytime there is a chance of peace breaking out, something else happens to send it all sideways again. Or still.

[Frijoles]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't pretend to have any real understanding of this issue.
The whole thing just sounds like intractable clusterfxck from day one.
It seems eveytime there is a chance of peace breaking out, something else happens to send it all sideways again. Or still.

This was the key paragraph

Many Israelis refer to Maale Adumim, along with two other large Jewish settlement blocs in the West Bank, as “consensus” settlements -- areas of the disputed territory that will remain part of Israel in a two-state solution. And the residents of Maale Adumim reflect Israel’s consensus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: They want a peace deal but are skeptical that the conflict will be resolved anytime soon.

[seasidesoon]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't pretend to have any real understanding of this issue.
The whole thing just sounds like intractable clusterfxck from day one.
It seems eveytime there is a chance of peace breaking out, something else happens to send it all sideways again. Or still.

put simply, when one country invades a sovereign country and at end of hostilities they've gained territory, they get to keep it..historically true in 1948. When same country invades again and loses territory,(1967) they throw tantrums and other deadly stuff until the UN gives in,(2012).

[former res]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
This was the key paragraph
Many Israelis refer to Maale Adumim, along with two other large Jewish settlement blocs in the West Bank, as “consensus” settlements -- areas of the disputed territory that will remain part of Israel in a two-state solution. And the residents of Maale Adumim reflect Israel’s consensus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: They want a peace deal but are skeptical that the conflict will be resolved anytime soon.

Perhaps so. Their "consesus" at the end was more or less what I was saying.

[former res]

seasidesoon wrote:

<quoted text>put simply, when one country invades a sovereign country and at end of hostilities they've gained territory, they get to keep it..historically true in 1948. When same country invades again and loses territory,(1967) they throw tantrums and other deadly stuff until the UN gives in,(2012).

"In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from Mandatory Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews."

The UN and Harry Truman should have taken a lesson.

George Marchall knew it would never work.

There is nothing "simple" about it, contrary to your pronouncement.

On a lighter note, how is your language training coming along?
Greek?

[former res]

As Secretary of State, Marshall strongly opposed recognizing the state of Israel. Marshall felt that if the state of Israel was declared that a war would break out in the Middle East (which it did in 1948 one day after Israel declared independence). Marshall saw recognizing the Jewish state as a political move to gain Jewish support in the upcoming election, in which Truman was expected to lose to Dewey. He told President Truman in May 1948, "If you (recognize the state of Israel) and if I were to vote in the election, I would vote against you."[32][33][34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall#...

[seasidesoon]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
"In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from Mandatory Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews."
The UN and Harry Truman should have taken a lesson.
George Marchall knew it would never work.
There is nothing "simple" about it, contrary to your pronouncement.
On a lighter note, how is your language training coming along?
Greek?

after I started on the Rosetta stone, I determined I couldn't proceed until I was comfortable with the alifbaa (Arabic). Thats how I started Hebrew, and Russian altho I really am not so interested in Russian..maybe later. I didn't like not being able to read the Arabic signs when I was in israel, although ak47 icons are pretty self-explanatory. Anyway, I've got the alifbaa handled now, so back to it. Fyi Rosetta was having a really good sale on any language. Anybody seen Maat , she ok?

[HughBe]

HughBe--- Have you ever seen people talking to graves or people in coffins?

Former--You can talk to a rock if you wish. It doesn't mean it hear you.

HughBe-- Is this really an answer to my question above?

HughBe--PROVE to me SCIENTIFICALLY that the person in the coffin cannot hear.

Former--It is not incombent on me to prove the negative that the rock can not hear you. It is on YOU to prove otherwise.

HughBe-- I am waiting for the proof.

HughBe-- Such an approach would reduce my mind to your level.

Former--You claim to NOT have a powerful imagination? That would be too bad.

HughBe--- Note the word REDUCE. Your ?, makes no sense.

Former-- What do you mean by spititual existence?

HughBe--- a life force that imparts life to people and is their true essence. In your mind, are you merely physical?

Former--I don't understand your definition. Oxygen, food and water impart life. Photosynthesis imparts life. Cell division etc.

HughBe--- I did not expect you to grasp the concept the first time. Is FOOD a life force, in your mind?

Former--Am I merely physical? I'm open to other theories but haven't heard or seen anything yet to make me think otherwise.

HughBe--- on the occasions that you think, are the toughts physical? Is there SOMETHING more than the physical?

HughBe--- how could I mean that? I speak of today and for a long time they have had those who have lord it over them and would DARE to think that they can strip them of their identity IF they don't comply with their LYING teachings. The Jewish people need to challenge the DECEIVERS and LIARS. Use history, the FACTS of the BIBLE etc. and LIBERATE themselves from MENTAL slavery.

Former--Couldn't this be said of all religions, governements etc?

HughBe--- I would say NO with respect to ALL religions. Now tell me about YOUR govt. and apply my points to it.

Former--I haven't noticed Frijoles complaining of these issues and he strikes me as an intelligent individual.

HughBe--- Frijoles is a BLIND, DUMD sheep of his overlords. If he was a truth seeker and if INTELLIGENCE was there he would have SERIOUS problems with it. But birds of a feather Flock together.

Former--Why not just call them "rabbis" etc.

HughBe-- I call them that as well i.e. masters=rabbis.

Former--Why do you choose to deride them?

HughBe---They deride themselves. If you were not asleep most of the times you would have learnt about them.

Former--Doesn't this show a lack of respect for one of the oldest religions on earth? Even older than your own.

HughBe--- poor chap. Judaism today is a MODERN construct that the overlords have said not even MOSES would recognize it. You seem to have comprehension challenges.


HUghBe--- Why are YOU casting ASPERSIONS on the INTEGRITY of the Jewish people.?

Former--I do not see this as disrespectful.

HughBe--- YOU cannot see.

Former--Am I better or smarter than all of them? don't know

HughBe--- Interesting comment.

Former--I accept not knowing.

HughBe--- very little.


HughBe --Why are some people SMARTER than others? Is it PHYSICAL traits?

Former---Combination of things.

HughBe--- tell me the combination.

Former--Nature vs nurture.

HughBe--- elaborate. In your mind, are we talking about BEHAVIOUR or intelligence?

Read your quote again.

"The nature versus nurture debate concerns the relative importance of an individual's innate qualities ("nature," i.e. nativism, or innatism) versus personal experiences ("nurture," i.e. empiricism or behaviorism) in determining or causing individual differences in physical and behavioral traits."

Former--Yes, racism, as homophobia, is wrong.
Blaming anyone for soemthing beyound their control is wrong

HughBe--- Like Frijoles you never fail to create an opening to champion your cause i.e. HOMOSEXUALITY.

Have you critically considered the BS that you have written?

[HughBe]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Thats not what I said. The We is rooted deeper than that. Its about an ethnicity, something you cant claim. The entire grammar of our langauge of identity is different than yours.

Frijoles---The We is rooted deeper than that

HughBe--- Indeed the ROOT is deeper and it goes way down to the DNA level or BIOLOGY. It is not the superficial religious beliefs.

Understand this, Einstein. God made a covenant with the JEWS. Einstein, they/Jews EXISTED when the covenant was made. They had a JEWISH identity when the covenant was made. Go tell your masters to CORRECT these facts of HISTORY.

Seed of Abraham, seed of Isaac, seed of Jacob etc. YES the root is very deep and goes down to the lowest possible level i.e. DNA.

I have no interest in claiming ETHNICITY. List the ethnic groups in the US.

The Jews who do not speak OUR language are they "apart" or "a part" of OUR ethnic group?

[HughBe]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
yes, we all know you have opinions and judgements about people's and religions other than your own.
Let me know when you get some new material

1.Jews are a RACE of people. Religion does not give you a Jewish NOSE. RACE does.

2.DNA testing is done by Jews to determine RACE and not RELIGIOUS beliefs.

3. The imporatnce of the patriarchs or FAMILY e.g.Abraham and the importance of LINEAGE is RACE and NOT religion.

Go sit in a corner and study it.

STOP deceiving your FOOLISH self.

[HughBe]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
Something else we can agree on.
Now, about talking to dead and imaginary beings.....

HughBe--Indeed my skin is BLACK and shine and comely.

Former--Something else we can agree on.

HughBe--- Whether or not you agreed my skin remains black, shine and comely.

[HughBe]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
Again...and please respond to this...
Because I cannot explain all of this....
How does it then follow that YOUR explanation is the correct one?
Anxiously awaiting..(hint: please use reason, evidence, and common sense in your response..)

It follows because of the source i.e. me.

[HughBe]

later

[Frijoles]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
1.Jews are a RACE of people. Religion does not give you a Jewish NOSE. RACE does.
2.DNA testing is done by Jews to determine RACE and not RELIGIOUS beliefs.
3. The imporatnce of the patriarchs or FAMILY e.g.Abraham and the importance of LINEAGE is RACE and NOT religion.
Go sit in a corner and study it.
STOP deceiving your FOOLISH self.

RAce is an outdated concept. You need to update yourself.

Tell me, Einstein, if a Christian coverts to Judaism, marries, but doesnt have children, is that former Christian now apart of the Jewish "race" or Jewish people?

What part of ethnoreligious do you constantly not understand?

Do you realize how stupid you usually sound?

[former res]

seasidesoon wrote:

<quoted text>after I started on the Rosetta stone, I determined I couldn't proceed until I was comfortable with the alifbaa (Arabic). Thats how I started Hebrew, and Russian altho I really am not so interested in Russian..maybe later. I didn't like not being able to read the Arabic signs when I was in israel, although ak47 icons are pretty self-explanatory. Anyway, I've got the alifbaa handled now, so back to it. Fyi Rosetta was having a really good sale on any language. Anybody seen Maat , she ok?

Good stuff. God bless your efforts.

I've heard all good things about the Rosetta Stone program.

And FWIW, the REAL Rosetta Stone (for me) was the absolute coolest thing I saw at the British Museum in London.

[former res]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
It follows because of the source i.e. me.

You are nice lady, I am sure - but you are not a god to me.

[former res]

HughBe wrote:

<quoted text>
HughBe--Indeed my skin is BLACK and shine and comely.
Former--Something else we can agree on.
HughBe--- Whether or not you agreed my skin remains black, shine and comely.

Do you use any "product" on your integumentay system?

[HughBe]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you use any "product" on your integumentay system?

I have no need for condoms.

[HughBe]

former res wrote:

<quoted text>
You are nice lady, I am sure - but you are not a god to me.

Former--you are not a god to me.

HughBe--- When you have acquired wisdom you shall change those words.:D

[HughBe]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
RAce is an outdated concept. You need to update yourself.
Tell me, Einstein, if a Christian coverts to Judaism, marries, but doesnt have children, is that former Christian now apart of the Jewish "race" or Jewish people?
What part of ethnoreligious do you constantly not understand?
Do you realize how stupid you usually sound?

Frijoles---RAce is an OUTDATED concept

HughBe--- spoken like a deceived fool.

Tell people to stop talking about the OUTDATED concept of Jewish NOSE. There is no such thing. The BIOLOGY is outdated. The religion of the rabbis or the new GOD has taken over.

Tell those who are testing for JEWISH DNA to STOP as it will ONLY reveal the OUTDATED concept of RACE.

Since RACE is OUTDATED there is no need for YOU and your masters to speak in terms of LINEAGE. Focus on God and FORGET about being descended from Abraham. Focus on the RELIGION and not the BIOLOGY/outdated race.