Lauderdale-by-the-Sea: Portal to the beach to receive an upgrad...

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arthur

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41937 Feb 27, 2013
Mokyor wrote:
<quoted text>
Good topic.
Lets look at the big picture of the ramifications in paying for fire service. First of all an assessment applied to non commercial properties are normally not allowed as a tax deduction. So by including it in the millage a homeowner can usually use it to off set their tax liabilities.
On the other hand, homesteaded properties pay an unequal rate for property taxes and thus would pay an unequal amount for the fire portion.
Applying both to the current base should be looked at to render the best/fairest method to apply.
In giving it a quick look I do think most and maybe all the fire cost should come from the millage rate.
Only by looking at it in detail can one come up with a good/fairest ratio. Guess what? Its not that hard. The property appraisers office has all the base numbers. If given those numbers and a couple of hours I could come up with a solid model for each any you might be able to do it even faster!!
It is not hard. It basically goes something like this.

You put 50 percent of fire department cost in ad valorem. Then you base fire assessment in residential on square footage. This way almost no one's fire assessment goes up.

Then you do not allow millage rate increase and you eliminate the least liked capital improvement project.

Millage rate stays the same or goes down and the fire assessment is paid for by consultants/professionals and our budget is leaner.

We have the opposite operation going on right now.
Mokyor

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41938 Feb 27, 2013
arthur wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not hard. It basically goes something like this.
You put 50 percent of fire department cost in ad valorem. Then you base fire assessment in residential on square footage. This way almost no one's fire assessment goes up.
Then you do not allow millage rate increase and you eliminate the least liked capital improvement project.
Millage rate stays the same or goes down and the fire assessment is paid for by consultants/professionals and our budget is leaner.
We have the opposite operation going on right now.
OK sounds good, but where did you get 50%?

Say its in the ballpark, it's still better/fairer then what we are doing now.
arthur

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41939 Feb 27, 2013
Mokyor wrote:
<quoted text>
OK sounds good, but where did you get 50%?
Say its in the ballpark, it's still better/fairer then what we are doing now.
Fort Lauderdale's fire-rescue budget is $70 million, and they are collecting $20 million in fire assessment.

So let's say we split their $70 million budget evenly in half with $35 million assigned to fire and $35 million assigned to rescue since I believe that every firefighter is a paramedic and vice versa.

So then $20 million in fire assessment over $35 million in costs means that 57 percent of the fire department is funded from fire assessment. So I rounded it down to 50 percent.

I would imagine that the counterpoint would be that only $20 million of $70 million of the fire-rescue goes towards fire and the rest is EMS. But if somebody is going to make that point I would say let them because it gets a little tricky with fire assessment being used for EMS. So whatever they would have to say let them say it first.

In our town we could add VFD to AMR and get a ratio, too, of our own fire department cost within the "fire-rescue" department. If we have VFD though and AMR is not volunteer then I would expect our ratio of VFD/fire-rescue to be lower than Fort Lauderdale's FD/fire-rescue ratio.

We could also look at Plantation which shows $3 million as a total cost of a volunteer fire department to get an idea of what fire departments cost even if Fort Lauderdale makes it difficult by conflating fire with EMS.

So I assumed 50 percent of fire department funded from ad valorem based on these ideas.
VFD

Pompano Beach, FL

#41940 Feb 27, 2013
Is funded our with fire assessment fees . They do have other income that they generated for fire inspections, etc. Mileage rate dose not include them. EMS costs come out of the mileage rate because it is illegal to use fire assessment funds for this purpose.
Mokyor

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41941 Feb 27, 2013
arthur wrote:
<quoted text>
Fort Lauderdale's fire-rescue budget is $70 million, and they are collecting $20 million in fire assessment.
So let's say we split their $70 million budget evenly in half with $35 million assigned to fire and $35 million assigned to rescue since I believe that every firefighter is a paramedic and vice versa.
So then $20 million in fire assessment over $35 million in costs means that 57 percent of the fire department is funded from fire assessment. So I rounded it down to 50 percent.
I would imagine that the counterpoint would be that only $20 million of $70 million of the fire-rescue goes towards fire and the rest is EMS. But if somebody is going to make that point I would say let them because it gets a little tricky with fire assessment being used for EMS. So whatever they would have to say let them say it first.
In our town we could add VFD to AMR and get a ratio, too, of our own fire department cost within the "fire-rescue" department. If we have VFD though and AMR is not volunteer then I would expect our ratio of VFD/fire-rescue to be lower than Fort Lauderdale's FD/fire-rescue ratio.
We could also look at Plantation which shows $3 million as a total cost of a volunteer fire department to get an idea of what fire departments cost even if Fort Lauderdale makes it difficult by conflating fire with EMS.
So I assumed 50 percent of fire department funded from ad valorem based on these ideas.
Thanks.
UNUSUAL MEETING

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41942 Feb 27, 2013
Haven't watched such a well controlled and prepared commission meeting conducted by Vice Mayor Sasser last night, since Mayor Colnot held his meetings, years ago. Something good must be happening in this town, good guys can finish first. How unusual.
you call docile good

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41943 Feb 28, 2013
UNUSUAL MEETING wrote:
Haven't watched such a well controlled and prepared commission meeting conducted by Vice Mayor Sasser last night, since Mayor Colnot held his meetings, years ago. Something good must be happening in this town, good guys can finish first. How unusual.
Please Mr. Daville use my better side...
COMM OR RESIDENTIAL

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41944 Feb 28, 2013
New fire fees for commercial properties can cause problems. Many properties called commercial properties for some reason or another have been given homestead exemption on a portion of the property. Only residential properties can be awarded homestead exemption, providing the owner qualifies. How are fire fees to be determined in such cases of commercial properties being classified as residential. Shouldn't a propery be one or the other and not with both? Inquiring minds want to know.
Fire Code Answer

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41945 Feb 28, 2013
COMM OR RESIDENTIAL wrote:
Shouldn't a propery be one or the other and not with both? Inquiring minds want to know.
Some definitions from the fire code:

3.3.138.23 Residential Occupancy. An occupancy that
provides sleeping accommodations for purposes other than
health care or detention and correctional.

3.3.138.13* Hotel. A building or groups of buildings under the
same management in which there are sleeping accommodations
for more than 16 persons and primarily used by transients
for lodging with or without meals.

3.3.138.17* Mercantile Occupancy. An occupancy used
for the display and sale of merchandise.

3.3.138.2* Assembly Occupancy. An occupancy (1) used
for a gathering of 50 or more persons for deliberation, worship,
entertainment, eating, drinking, amusement, awaiting
transportation, or similar uses; or (2) used as a special
amusement building, regardless of occupant load.

3.3.138.4* Business Occupancy. An occupancy used for
account and record keeping or the transaction of business
other than mercantile.
Benny Hill

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41946 Feb 28, 2013
What was with the low turnout last night at Taste of the Beach? Saw only one of town commissioners there. Many other local bigwigs were missing. Anyone know anything?
Benny

Pompano Beach, FL

#41947 Feb 28, 2013
Commissioners should have been there. As for me, I was not keen on having to look for a parking space and then walking through the heavy rain to get there.
To John Boton

Pompano Beach, FL

#41948 Feb 28, 2013
Why do you sit at meeting pretending to be a hotel owner when you pay residential rate for your timeshare's utilities. Sure you rent some vacant units out to the public but the great majority are timeshare owners or exchangers. Seems to me this is not fair to the hotel and motel owners in LBTS. The managers of the other timeshares are more ethical and don't come to meetings as hotel owners or managers.
What The

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41949 Mar 1, 2013
To John Boton wrote:
Why do you sit at meeting pretending to be a hotel owner when you pay residential rate for your timeshare's utilities. Sure you rent some vacant units out to the public but the great majority are timeshare owners or exchangers. Seems to me this is not fair to the hotel and motel owners in LBTS. The managers of the other timeshares are more ethical and don't come to meetings as hotel owners or managers.
I did not know that! Calling town hall and everyone who reads this should do the same!!
RESIDENTIAL AND COMM

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41950 Mar 1, 2013
Fire Code Answer wrote:
<quoted text>
Some definitions from the fire code:
3.3.138.23 Residential Occupancy. An occupancy that
provides sleeping accommodations for purposes other than
health care or detention and correctional.
3.3.138.13* Hotel. A building or groups of buildings under the
same management in which there are sleeping accommodations
for more than 16 persons and primarily used by transients
for lodging with or without meals.
3.3.138.17* Mercantile Occupancy. An occupancy used
for the display and sale of merchandise.
3.3.138.2* Assembly Occupancy. An occupancy (1) used
for a gathering of 50 or more persons for deliberation, worship,
entertainment, eating, drinking, amusement, awaiting
transportation, or similar uses; or (2) used as a special
amusement building, regardless of occupant load.
3.3.138.4* Business Occupancy. An occupancy used for
account and record keeping or the transaction of business
other than mercantile.
Thanks for the reply, but it still didn't answer my unanswered question. If a building is classified commercial, but a certain percentage is claimed residential, and homestead exemption is granted for this exempted percentage of the building, how are sewage fees determined, fire fees, garbage fees and all other fees determined, when the fees are different for commercial and residential properties. My own opinion, a commercial property is a commercial property and a residential propety is residential property. I may be wrong, if so, it wont be the first time.
Why Not

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41951 Mar 1, 2013
RESIDENTIAL AND COMM wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for the reply, but it still didn't answer my unanswered question. If a building is classified commercial, but a certain percentage is claimed residential, and homestead exemption is granted for this exempted percentage of the building, how are sewage fees determined, fire fees, garbage fees and all other fees determined, when the fees are different for commercial and residential properties. My own opinion, a commercial property is a commercial property and a residential propety is residential property. I may be wrong, if so, it wont be the first time.
Why not use a percentage of the residential and commercial values and apply that to each of the items you mentioned. I mean the homestead exemption is allied suing that method and seems fair. And if its not done that way then it should be.
Mokyor

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41952 Mar 1, 2013
Its worth repeating, the town should not move forward with any projects unless they first resolve any outstanding fundamental issues.

Some have just received their sewer bills and its completely incorrect.

From the last meeting Tony, the head of finance, said he reviewed the new billing and had issues. This was to be fixed first. This was in response to Arthur who inquired why his did not change.

I have another idea on this. The town about 10 years ago use to do the billing. Now Ft. Lauderdale does it. Lets take it back. With the advances in technology, there is no reason why we should not. Time to look into that.

A huge mess has been created.


I AGREE WITH YOU

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41953 Mar 1, 2013
Why Not wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not use a percentage of the residential and commercial values and apply that to each of the items you mentioned. I mean the homestead exemption is allied suing that method and seems fair. And if its not done that way then it should be.
It is not done that way.
residential commercial

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41954 Mar 1, 2013
RESIDENTIAL AND COMM wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for the reply, but it still didn't answer my unanswered question. If a building is classified commercial, but a certain percentage is claimed residential, and homestead exemption is granted for this exempted percentage of the building, how are sewage fees determined, fire fees, garbage fees and all other fees determined, when the fees are different for commercial and residential properties. My own opinion, a commercial property is a commercial property and a residential propety is residential property. I may be wrong, if so, it wont be the first time.
Happen to be reading your comments, check with Town Hall to verify
The Zoning designated RM-25 is possibly what you describe because
several properties along ElMarDr have rentable units but are also
owner occupied in the RM-25 zoning which is considered residential commercial property including motels that have owner occupied residences on the premises. Then they would
most probably have homestead exemption for residency living at the motel. The TM should be able to clarify the RM-25 zoning for you.

Hope this info helps you investigate your concern.
no double billing for fee

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41955 Mar 1, 2013
residential commercial wrote:
<quoted text>
Happen to be reading your comments, check with Town Hall to verify
The Zoning designated RM-25 is possibly what you describe because
several properties along ElMarDr have rentable units but are also
owner occupied in the RM-25 zoning which is considered residential commercial property including motels that have owner occupied residences on the premises. Then they would
most probably have homestead exemption for residency living at the motel. The TM should be able to clarify the RM-25 zoning for you.
Hope this info helps you investigate your concern.
I am aware that commercial properties have an exempted percentage allowed, and the bcpa property records verifies this. I am concerned about fire fees, sewer fees and garbage fees. I can guarantee you the percentage allowed each fee is not reflected in the bills for those above mentioned services.
Benny Hill

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41956 Mar 1, 2013
Benny wrote:
Commissioners should have been there. As for me, I was not keen on having to look for a parking space and then walking through the heavy rain to get there.
You be woman or girly man?

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