look again

Mount Pleasant, TX

#123 Jan 24, 2013
I feel sorry for the owners of ProMed. Imagine how they must feel after the referendum vote, realizing that their company was officially stamped REJECTED by the voters, and can only be denied by those in a perpetual state of denial. That fact is now in the Arkansas permanent public record for all to see. And yes, ProMed was obviously "recruited" by certain officials, officials elect, and other prominent citizens, well before the franchise was created.
The council has claimed support for their actions, but in fact there is now little support other than friends and family,(and obviously, ProMed workers). The council continues to claim support by denial and refusal to truly consider the will of the people by minimizing petitions by citizens and medical workers, and furthering denial by claiming the voters "did not know what they were doing" in the refrendum vote. Incredible!
Any support for council actions has wavered, even one councilman has now backed away from the franchise. The council now only has legal manuvers and manipulation on it's side, the business as usual of "dont worry, we can get around that law".
The city attorney indicated another referendum would be challenged in court....he's good with that, willing to work for his pension. Can you think of a better way to spend your hard earned tax dollars? Come to think of it, the city is in the middle of lawsuit now, and will have to hire an expensive outside attorney. Why can't our attorney do that job? Kiss our money goodbye...
What about a mayoral recall? Unlikely, he is popular enough, and while deeply involved, he only casts tie breaking votes, so he does have a defense, albeit weak.
The real problem is in our city council, and how that can be fixed. The long term solution is to find qualified candidates to run opposition, but the next regular election is too far away. Arkansas is a state that allows for recall of some municipal officials, an attorney would have to be hired to advise the possibility for this instance. And, any potential recall candidate would have to have held office for 6 months. If one or our council members "qualified" for a recall, the next question is whom to pick? The younger council members are logical candidates, they have a political future to protect. Next step is to research voting data, find the weakest link. Looks like it could be Tim Scott. And that could damage his position/hold on the Chamber. He has made enemies, he is weak, and he knows it. If just one council member is removed, perhaps we would hear a different tune. Things like full disclosure and publicly discussing evidence instead of repressing and hiding the facts. Let it be possible.
In any event, there should be an eventual political price to pay for the duplicity of the council. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Voters don't forget, and there are strong currents of discontent.
Wheels are turning...
time

Mountain Home, AR

#124 Jan 24, 2013
time running short for another referendum.

an initiative may be the best long term foolproof solution to override the council actions.
do it

Ash Flat, AR

#125 Jan 24, 2013
a recall sure would wake these people up
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#126 Jan 24, 2013
The Majority of the People may ALTER or ABOLISH a Government which has become Tyrannical.

Power rests in the Majority...however it is important to rcconize that the Government was established by the MAJORITY of the People and only a Majority of the people can authorize an appeal, recall or alter or abolish a paticular establishment of government as Locke pointed out:

"When any number of men have by the consent of every individual, made a community, they have thereby made that community one body, with a power to act as one body, which is only by the will and determination of the Majority...
And thus every man, by consenting with others to make one body politic under one gov. puts himself under an obligation to every one of that society to submit to the determination of the majority and to be concluded by it"
He went on to say " If illegal acts have extended to the MAJORITY of the people, or if the mischief and oppression has light struck only on some few, but in such cases as the precedent and consequences seem to THREATEN ALL And they are persuaded in their consciences that their laws, and with them their estates, liberties and lives are in danger, and perhaps their religion too, HOW THEY WILL BE HINDERED FROM RESISTING ILLEGAL FORCE USED AGAINST THEM I CANNOT TELL"

VOTE THE BUMS OUT OR USE RECALL ACTIONS, Hellfire get a lawyer and fire them, they work for you. Get a group and pool money and begin recall actions and petitions. Its easily googled in other communities where the people have balls and did recall those elected officialcs committing corrupt and fraud upon the people under the veil of WHITE COLLAR CRIME. Its the Progressive way.
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#127 Jan 24, 2013
wake up wrote:
my question also in what official capacity is old olvey? this should have been a public meeting why wasn't it? what can the people do about this? can there be a class action lawsuit against the city? private meetings that effect every person in the county but only a select few are invited to attend?
im mad not at promed or their employees but at the way this whole matter from handle.someone had an agenda and got there way at the cost of other people and there jobs that were lost. i say this one more time has nothing to do with promed it could have been aet or any other service, it the way our elected official allowed this whole mess to go down. vote the whole mess of them out of office.
There is your elected officials and there is those unelected officials who actually call shots and tell the patsy elected officials what to do. This is how its done. Take a look at a lot of ordinances and laws, amendments, changes, effecting tax payers and how there are decisions made monthly without transparency. Now figire out why new opponents to elected office are told to go to hell and dont dare try to run in this town.
VOTE THE COUNCIL OUT, THE QUORUM COURT MEMBERS ALL OUT!! ENFORCE TERM LIMITS AND THATS YOUR START! TEA
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#128 Jan 24, 2013
just wow wrote:
"medic one never heard from 911 EVER that their was a problem
then one day got a call from baltz and old olvey that there was a problem
told you have to have a third truck
at that time medic one said no
meetings called meetings at old olvey's office"
What official capacity does old olvey have to call, have a meeting at his office, and make demands of medic one?
Seems the erc and council sould have officially met with them = legal public meeting.
Clear that medic one was victim of hidden personal agenda(s). Should sue the piss out of olvey, and city for defamation about "inadequate" claim.
Lawsuits seem to be te only way to deal with the city. It's getting old and costly.
When can we sign another petition or an initiative to fix this mess?
STOP TALKING and file lawsuits. Get Constitutional Attorney to represent you and others, pool money to pay. This is what they want the people to do, Talk talk talk. Action is the cure. The white collar criminals do not expect this town to step up, they use union tactics and threaten and pretend to be competent in areas they clearly are not.The agenda is power and money. Hows the economy in your town?? VOTE THE BUMS OUT AFTER YOU TAKE EM TO COURT....THEY ARE GONNA STALL FOR YEARS ANYWAY.....GAIN MORE POWER AND MONEY WHILE YOU EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS AS A MAJORITY TEA!!
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#129 Jan 24, 2013
look again wrote:
Any talk about which EMS service is better doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The real question is, "what do the patients want, or what do the voters want?"
The answer to those quesions have been given in several ways, and those answers are not subject to interpretaion.
Plain and simple, the voters LEGALLY REJECTED PROMED AMBULANCE, Period. Simple answer. No other way to look at it. Arkansas state law.
Now, the city council has violated the trust of the voters by ignoring the results of that vote. Their method of operation is to bypass the election process, and slap the voters in the face.
Do you really want to pay an attorney and officials to look for ways to bypass and corrupt the meaning of the law? Is it ok with you that the primary governing phrase used by the city council is, "dont worry, we can get around that"?
HEAR HEAR Now take a look again at the Voteing process in this town and county and who is counting the votes. OR STAY HOME LIKE THEY WANT YOU TO DO. No vote is a vore for the status quo " dont worry, we can get around that" TEA!!
look again

Mount Pleasant, TX

#130 Jan 24, 2013
time wrote:
time running short for another referendum.
an initiative may be the best long term foolproof solution to override the council actions.
You are correct, another referendum could be a waste of time...the only reason referendum was attempted is because it was the FASTEST option available at the time. YES, THE VOTERS SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE COUNCIL WOULD IGNORE OR REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE REJECTION OF THE COUNCIL HHIDDEN AGENDA CHOICE OF PROMED.

Initiative is more difficult, time consuming to build a new ordinance... First choice, abolish exclusive
franchise for Pocahontas? May be open to challenge, then a fight against City Hall AND the Municipal League. No fun.
How can an initiative ordinance be built that the council cannot change? May be hard to accomplish.
Is a franchise a bad idea? No, not if administered properly and openly. And before anone gets any ideas, DO NOT BELIEVE THE CITY COUNCIL. They have hidden and not publicly disclosed related documents in a timely manner. They make claims of openness, all the while plotting a legal path to minimize input by opposition. Then they shed crocodile tears while whining about bids, and pointing fingers away from themselves. They have never publicly discussed valuable input by the medical community. So, do you trust the council to be an impartial judge. NO!
Speaking of judges, has anyone thought about some type of court action? The council uses loopholes and subversion, why not dose them with their own medicine? Quicker, immediate action and results, a second/third embarrassment for council.... What could be possible grounds for such an action?
time

Mountain Home, AR

#131 Jan 24, 2013
look again wrote:
<quoted text>You are correct, another referendum could be a waste of time...the only reason referendum was attempted is because it was the FASTEST option available at the time. YES, THE VOTERS SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE COUNCIL WOULD IGNORE OR REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE REJECTION OF THE COUNCIL HHIDDEN AGENDA CHOICE OF PROMED.
Initiative is more difficult, time consuming to build a new ordinance... First choice, abolish exclusive
franchise for Pocahontas? May be open to challenge, then a fight against City Hall AND the Municipal League. No fun.
How can an initiative ordinance be built that the council cannot change? May be hard to accomplish.
Is a franchise a bad idea? No, not if administered properly and openly. And before anone gets any ideas, DO NOT BELIEVE THE CITY COUNCIL. They have hidden and not publicly disclosed related documents in a timely manner. They make claims of openness, all the while plotting a legal path to minimize input by opposition. Then they shed crocodile tears while whining about bids, and pointing fingers away from themselves. They have never publicly discussed valuable input by the medical community. So, do you trust the council to be an impartial judge. NO!
Speaking of judges, has anyone thought about some type of court action? The council uses loopholes and subversion, why not dose them with their own medicine? Quicker, immediate action and results, a second/third embarrassment for council.... What could be possible grounds for such an action?
another referendum would further embarrass the council and a special election would cost them some $$ and MIGHT get a judge involved. slap em twice and get the press to report how they are ignoring our vote.

simple initiative(CITY SHALL NOT FORM AN AMBULANCE FRANCHISE) would probably have some lasting power to it.
if non sole franchise is needed, time for the county to form a qualified public board to handle it anyway.

either way, need a GOOD lawyer looking at the whole process and laws, and what city has done and maybe hidden. make their heads spin. foia every meeting, any info distributed, emails, erc minutes, etc. put some folks under oath on the private meetings and any possible discussions among councilmen. see if they have done everything correctly. city wants to play games - play hard ball with them with lawyers and judges.

it will take time and $$$. some need to form a group and have a organizational meeting and then public meetings. share ideas and info. get a plan. ask for $$$ and hire a lawyer.

maybe mic/tac could advise or lead us, may have some ideas on the processes and know a good lawyer.

wished medic one would stay and run county and maybe non emergency city runs if possible. put the pressure on promed profits while city must still enforce their same franchise regs and specs.
time

Mountain Home, AR

#132 Jan 24, 2013
"What could be possible grounds for such an action?"

city would claim the votes struck down a certain ordinance number with the vote. "tho not sure of the exact ballot wording"
appeal to a judge to uphold the "wording of the referendum, ballot?, and intent of the voters" = no franchise to promed
cant remember

Ash Flat, AR

#133 Jan 24, 2013
i know ive been told or read it in the paper or here that the city franchise on a tuesday and jansen had a ord. ready for there monthly meeting that same week.but several people showed up at the county meeting and none of the jp would vote on it. after the city picked promed again has the county done the same? can medic one have the county to pass a ord. so they can run in the county?
look again

Mount Pleasant, TX

#134 Jan 24, 2013
cant remember wrote:
i know ive been told or read it in the paper or here that the city franchise on a tuesday and jansen had a ord. ready for there monthly meeting that same week.but several people showed up at the county meeting and none of the jp would vote on it. after the city picked promed again has the county done the same? can medic one have the county to pass a ord. so they can run in the county?
The county/ quorum court has not brought up the interlocal ambulance agreement again. They OBVIOUSLY understand voter sentiment. Anyway, that agreement is mostly a formality... But watchout, there could be trouble keep an eye on things. I am
aware of no county requirements for ambulances, other than 911 regs & rotation.
time

Ash Flat, AR

#135 Jan 25, 2013
there are 1000+ pissed on voters and more than that in the county that somehow need to unite and take action. medic one and a few folks shouldn't have to spend their money fighting to right the council wrong actions. they could lead, but need our help. they should publicly ask for it. there is strength in large numbers.

would be interesting if those concerned and the rejected voters got together for a PUBLIC HEARING since the council denied them one. let everyone that wants to, speak. but invite the press, mayor, council, jps, and county judge to observe only. be sure to get a big enough room. our community center will hold a large crowd.

those with inside info could get and lay out what info they have. hand out erc minutes and research, actual run times and stats, council correspondence, private meetings, etc, etc. lot of info out there that the general public hasn't heard or seen.

could organize a huge number to basically harass city hall. ask for erc minutes, emails, anything sent to council members internally, the actual franchise specs, 911 records. foia every piece of paper and discussion the councilmen have on the franchise. ask to be put on the city agenda to ask questions and express our concerns on the vote being overturned. call the mayor and councilmen personally and ask them why they went against the people.

ask those attending a PUBLIC HEARING if they would contribute money for lawyers to fight city hall. investigate, referendum, initiative, recall, or possible lawsuit.

form a committee or legal group if needed, take donation pledges at THE PUBLIC HEARING. report totals committed to the radio and paper. buy ads if needed and run ads for more donations.

then hire the smartest and meanest lawyers out there to make the council heads spin and legally fight their ignorant actions.
Haha

Oklahoma City, OK

#136 Jan 25, 2013
This is not the first franchise ever done in pocahontas so yes it is legal
doh

Ash Flat, AR

#137 Jan 25, 2013
Haha wrote:
This is not the first franchise ever done in pocahontas so yes it is legal
first sole ambulance franchise ever passed by the council AND the people legally voted it down.

council should use their eyes, ears, and brains, and learn to look, listen, and think better.
good idea

Ash Flat, AR

#138 Jan 25, 2013
coummity center city hall old court house new court house dist.court room at sheriffs dept all paid with and still funded by the people there does need to be a public meeting in one of these places

plan it and we will come
invite the elected officials see who comes post on here who came and who didnt they may answers question if they chose but they dont call the shots
good idea

Ash Flat, AR

#139 Jan 25, 2013
doh wrote:
<quoted text>
first sole ambulance franchise ever passed by the council AND the people legally voted it down.
council should use their eyes, ears, and brains, and learn to look, listen, and think better.
this goes for every elected official in randolph county
what else have our leaders done in falsehood for the better of the people when maybe it was only done because thats what they wanted? when the cats away the rats will play the cats been away along time and the rats are getting bigger
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#140 Jan 25, 2013
time wrote:
<quoted text>
another referendum would further embarrass the council and a special election would cost them some $$ and MIGHT get a judge involved. slap em twice and get the press to report how they are ignoring our vote.
simple initiative(CITY SHALL NOT FORM AN AMBULANCE FRANCHISE) would probably have some lasting power to it.
if non sole franchise is needed, time for the county to form a qualified public board to handle it anyway.
either way, need a GOOD lawyer looking at the whole process and laws, and what city has done and maybe hidden. make their heads spin. foia every meeting, any info distributed, emails, erc minutes, etc. put some folks under oath on the private meetings and any possible discussions among councilmen. see if they have done everything correctly. city wants to play games - play hard ball with them with lawyers and judges.
it will take time and $$$. some need to form a group and have a organizational meeting and then public meetings. share ideas and info. get a plan. ask for $$$ and hire a lawyer.
maybe mic/tac could advise or lead us, may have some ideas on the processes and know a good lawyer.
wished medic one would stay and run county and maybe non emergency city runs if possible. put the pressure on promed profits while city must still enforce their same franchise regs and specs.
Hire a good Constitutional Lawyer, Think there are a few retired ones still around that may help on a very small fee. I would help for a good john deer tractor. Kidding, I have 3 and the new tax assessor may be coming soon. But good ideas and get the lawyer, thats only language the incompetent white collars understand and then they struggle with that and dont count on the Oath of office getting you the truth. Elected officials under oath in any setting Ive seen has been intertaining, But its fun to watch them turn beat red in the face anyway. TEA!

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations....this danger ought to be wisely guarded against. Madison
advice

Caddo Mills, TX

#141 Jan 25, 2013
An attorney (not local) with experience in municipal law is examining documents now.

Will advise, hope early next week.

Thank you.
Tackmaster

Salem, AR

#142 Jan 25, 2013
advice wrote:
An attorney (not local) with experience in municipal law is examining documents now.
Will advise, hope early next week.
Thank you.
Thanks for Info. I have been incognito for awhile. Im aware of the County involved with Attorney from LR again, allededly fooling with the peoples rights again. Hope the Constitutions prevails in all cases.

Franklin declared: Protection is as truly due from the government to the people as obedience from the people is due to the government. Strength in numbers was key.

The old saying is true..."Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you"

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