Why The State Won't Takeover Rochester City Schools

Mar 26, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: 13WHAM

Rochester, N.Y. - While New Jersey's governor made headlines Monday by moving to take over another underachieving school district, the same is not likely to happen in Rochester or elsewhere in New York, according to the State Education Department.

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1 - 16 of 16 Comments Last updated Mar 29, 2013

Since: Mar 11

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#1
Mar 28, 2013
 
They better do something about the RCSD ASAP. The kids come out way below the standards used nation wide,most can't read or write pass the third grade level.Now the teacher union is saying that the poor grades aren't their fault and are putting the blame on everything/one else. I agree to a point, they aren't 100% of the problem,but they are at least 75% of it.Tenure should be stopped,there are teachers that shouldn't be allowed to teach in a daycare center let alone a school.It is way pass the time to clean house and get the RCSD back on track once and for all.Just saying.

Since: Jun 12

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#2
Mar 28, 2013
 

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I respectfully have to disagree, PP. It is impossible to teach kids who do everything in their power to NOT learn! How do you teach a student who shows up once a week at most? These kids run wild in these schools. None of them enter kindergarten any where near school-ready. They don't know the alphabet, can't tie their shoes, know nothing but how to swear at each other, hit, punch..etc. The majority of them can be classified as ADHD. Those who are capable have to contend with disruptive classmates. To most of the city kids, education is not a priority to them.

According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, without the basic needs being met (food, shelter, LOVE), they can never attain higher level thinking skills. They face daily domestic violence, practically no supervision at home, they lack adequate role models...the list goes on and on. Teachers are doing the best they can with what they have to contend with. They are very limited in what steps they can take to rectify the situation.

The RCSD can replace every single teacher in their district with new teachers and not one single problem will be solved. The problems are outside the school. And are carried into the school. Ask a city school district teacher what they have to contend with on a typical day and your head will start spinning. Without family and community assistance, these kids enter school already failing. It's difficult to make up for neglect, abuse, constant drug use by family members, violence, etc. in 180 days at 6 hours per day. Just a thought.:)

Since: Mar 11

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#3
Mar 28, 2013
 
SCS,I went to school in Philly and the same crap was happening back then.The teachers put up with the same things as the RCSD teachers do now,but they did their job,cared and taught the kids unlike now where all they do is complain about how hard they have it.Big different is there were NO UNIONS or TENURE to cover their butts when they didn't do their job.Another different was that the P/C pushing idiots didn't control the schools.It was nothing to see a teacher smack a student that was acting "out",sure made the schools work like they should.In 1968 the class (Abe Lincoln) was over 1000 kids and only had appox 30 kids that dropped out.Again note that this wasn't any better neighborhood than what we have in Rochester today.The kids haven't changed,we had gang bangers,teen moms,single parents,druggies,ect back then,but there wasn't any unions or the bleeding hearts standing in the way. So I say again,75% of the problem is the teachers,unions and the bleeding hearts..Just saying.

Since: Jun 12

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#4
Mar 28, 2013
 

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I agree with the unions being ridiculous. But you have to remember...at any given moment, on any given day...a student or parent who isn't happy with the teacher CAN and DO file complaints against a teacher which contain false accusations. They need protection from that. I also believe tenure has its problems. But given the "step ladder" salary system that school districts have, it has to be there. Because without it, when a teacher reached a certain "step", making decent money finally, the district can just find any damn reason to fire them and hire a young, fresh out of college teacher for less than half the older teacher's salary.

Since: Nov 11

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#5
Mar 28, 2013
 

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Steel City Steelers wrote:
I respectfully have to disagree, PP. It is impossible to teach kids who do everything in their power to NOT learn! How do you teach a student who shows up once a week at most? These kids run wild in these schools. None of them enter kindergarten any where near school-ready. They don't know the alphabet, can't tie their shoes, know nothing but how to swear at each other, hit, punch..etc. The majority of them can be classified as ADHD. Those who are capable have to contend with disruptive classmates. To most of the city kids, education is not a priority to them.
According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, without the basic needs being met (food, shelter, LOVE), they can never attain higher level thinking skills. They face daily domestic violence, practically no supervision at home, they lack adequate role models...the list goes on and on. Teachers are doing the best they can with what they have to contend with. They are very limited in what steps they can take to rectify the situation.
The RCSD can replace every single teacher in their district with new teachers and not one single problem will be solved. The problems are outside the school. And are carried into the school. Ask a city school district teacher what they have to contend with on a typical day and your head will start spinning. Without family and community assistance, these kids enter school already failing. It's difficult to make up for neglect, abuse, constant drug use by family members, violence, etc. in 180 days at 6 hours per day. Just a thought.:)
Ditto

PP I have to agree 100% with Steel City Steelers on this one..

A carpenter can't work with rotten wood.
A potter cant mold with Sandy low low quality clay.

Separate the kid's by ability and willingness to learn but don't let the rotten apples ruin the whole barrel.

Since: Mar 11

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#6
Mar 28, 2013
 

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Steel City Steelers wrote:
I agree with the unions being ridiculous. But you have to remember...at any given moment, on any given day...a student or parent who isn't happy with the teacher CAN and DO file complaints against a teacher which contain false accusations. They need protection from that. I also believe tenure has its problems. But given the "step ladder" salary system that school districts have, it has to be there. Because without it, when a teacher reached a certain "step", making decent money finally, the district can just find any damn reason to fire them and hire a young, fresh out of college teacher for less than half the older teacher's salary.
The system worked 100% better before the unions got their fangs into the schools.We had teachers that made top pay way-way back then and taught until they were way pass retirement time because they were damn good at their job.As far as complaints,it wasn't a big problem,the school board took every one of them,looked to see if they were legit or B/S then sloved the problem,worked 99.9999% of the time.One thing that has changed is now the parent(s) are sue happy,looking for a fast buck and will file every charge the can and the system will back down and pay out of court,again,too P/C.Just saying.

Since: Jun 12

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#7
Mar 28, 2013
 

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The District and State actually have the right to sue parents for educational neglect. I posted the link to the law in a thread about a month ago. It is way too costly though.
Dumb ASSAMOAH

Rochester, NY

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#8
Mar 28, 2013
 
The Rochester City School District is the biggest JOKE in Monroe County.

Since: Mar 13

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#9
Mar 28, 2013
 

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pigpen911 wrote:
<quoted text>The system worked 100% better before the unions got their fangs into the schools.We had teachers that made top pay way-way back then and taught until they were way pass retirement time because they were damn good at their job.As far as complaints,it wasn't a big problem,the school board took every one of them,looked to see if they were legit or B/S then sloved the problem,worked 99.9999% of the time.One thing that has changed is now the parent(s) are sue happy,looking for a fast buck and will file every charge the can and the system will back down and pay out of court,again,too P/C.Just saying.
Actually they don't.A parent has the right to decide what education is fit for their child and their is no law requiring education.The process you speak while often used is an abuse of authority by the courts.

Since: Jun 12

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#11
Mar 28, 2013
 

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DotDashDashDotDot wrote:
<quoted text>Actually they don't.A parent has the right to decide what education is fit for their child and their is no law requiring education.The process you speak while often used is an abuse of authority by the courts.
Not true. There are state laws that govern education in America. I posted them a few months ago. It's a fallacy that the parents can do what they want in regards to education. Depends on the state in which you reside.

Since: Mar 13

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#12
Mar 28, 2013
 
Steel City Steelers wrote:
<quoted text>Not true. There are state laws that govern education in America. I posted them a few months ago. It's a fallacy that the parents can do what they want in regards to education. Depends on the state in which you reside.
You are half right the laws are on the books.The thing is courts can not upholde them when the law is challenged.It loses legal ground on the fact that a person has a fundimental right to decide what they feel is in rhe best interest of the child.That being said if I did not send my child to school because I believe it is detrimental to teach the state ciriculum to a child I can not be held in neglect.However the only time the law is enforceable is if it can be proven that I just don't care.

Since: Mar 13

Rochester, NY

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#13
Mar 28, 2013
 
I have a sister who works for child protective services she explained it all.

Since: Mar 13

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#14
Mar 28, 2013
 

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Steel City Steelers wrote:
I agree with the unions being ridiculous. But you have to remember...at any given moment, on any given day...a student or parent who isn't happy with the teacher CAN and DO file complaints against a teacher which contain false accusations. They need protection from that. I also believe tenure has its problems. But given the "step ladder" salary system that school districts have, it has to be there. Because without it, when a teacher reached a certain "step", making decent money finally, the district can just find any damn reason to fire them and hire a young, fresh out of college teacher for less than half the older teacher's salary.
Teachers have no right to a union.Same goes for police,mailmen,garbagemen,any civil worker paid by taxes.The very notion is rediculous they generate no profit.They are not bargaining against a greedy employer.They are ganging up on the very people who they are supposer to serve.The teachers get paid extremly well when you factor in benefits and time off plus they need to realize people can't pay what they ask for when the people are not working.

Since: Jun 12

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#15
Mar 29, 2013
 
DotDashDashDotDot wrote:
<quoted text> You are half right the laws are on the books.The thing is courts can not upholde them when the law is challenged.It loses legal ground on the fact that a person has a fundimental right to decide what they feel is in rhe best interest of the child.That being said if I did not send my child to school because I believe it is detrimental to teach the state ciriculum to a child I can not be held in neglect.However the only time the law is enforceable is if it can be proven that I just don't care.
It's called educational neglect. Parents HAVE BEEN sued by districts for it. Successfully, I may add.
dave gantt

Rochester, NY

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#16
Mar 29, 2013
 

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Just out law all public employee unions

Since: Mar 13

Rochester, NY

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#17
Mar 29, 2013
 
Steel City Steelers wrote:
<quoted text>
It's called educational neglect. Parents HAVE BEEN sued by districts for it. Successfully, I may add.
Yes you are righf about that.What you are missing is the fact that in situations where the parents file for appeal the hogher courts are obligated to strike down and reverse the verdict based on parental rights and the subjective nature of proper education.Like I said the laws are only concrete when it is demonstrated that the parents did not care about education either way usually through proof of neglect and abuse in other aspects to the kids well being.If it were as black and white in the eyes of law every Amish and Mennonite parent would be in jail.It is amazing how much people know what laws are writen but take no time to understand how the actual theory of law works.There is a lot of plasticity involved with socail law.

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