Pittsfield petition calls for topless...

Pittsfield petition calls for topless sunbathing

There are 2853 comments on the WNYT Albany story from Dec 7, 2007, titled Pittsfield petition calls for topless sunbathing. In it, WNYT Albany reports that:

It's freezing outside. But they were talking about sunbathing in Pittsfield Friday -- topless sunbathing.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WNYT Albany.

Thudeus Peckersky

Valatie, NY

#2648 May 17, 2009
KG/Ms P. I propose a question to you: Do you feel it is the same to go topless on the beach as it is a 50 year old man going bottomless in front of all to see on the same beach?

I think the laws are in effect for a good reason. Don't you?

Once again, if you want to sunbath topless, do it in your own back yard and not on a PUBLIC BEACH. If you insist on making a public spectacle of your self than you deserve to spent some time in county jail and lose your son and be labeled a pedophile, or at least a flasher.

If you want to go topless, go to a place where it's allowed. All I read into this petition is: I want to go topless and don't look at me. Guess what? People will look, we're inquisitive creatures.
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2649 May 17, 2009
that's a good question, i'm interested to hear her answer. here in miami, it's the same for men and women to be topless on the beach or at hotel or condo pools, etc.. both have to wear g-strings at least on the bottom.

breasts aren't designed for copulation, so that would be the anatomical difference.

i think the goal would be to make it "allowed" socially for women to remove their shirts at beaches or in parks where men can, because the intent isn't sexual.

whether pittsfield is ready for that is another question, but obviously you have to start somewhere.
miamilegal69

Sunnyvale, CA

#2650 May 17, 2009
Katherine, that's great that you have so many signatures, i hope you go ahead and submit and let them tell you if it's too late...

I was thinking last night, you could have another petition(s) that simply reads something like (off the top of my head):

I request that the City Council adopt a resolution in light of the recent passage of Massachusetts law, Chapter 111, Section 221:

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that, per MA law, Ch. 11, S. 221 (b):

"Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, the act of a mother breastfeeding her child, and any exposure of a breast incidental thereto that is solely for the purpose of nursing such child, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct."

And, furthermore, per City Code (Ord 702):

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield to see that each individual, regardless of his sex shall have equal opportunity in or access to recreation; to protect each individual in the enjoyment of his civil rights; and to encourage and bring about mutual understanding and respect among all individuals in the City by the elimination of prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, discrimination and the disorder occasioned thereby.

Therefore:

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that any exposure of the female breast for the purpose of recreation while swimming or sunbathing, in places where men are allowed to expose the male breast, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct.

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that anyone who discriminates against or harasses any woman who exposes any portion of her breast for the purposes of breast feeding, swimming, or sunbathing, shall be punished under applicable laws.
Betties Bloopers

Adams, MA

#2651 May 17, 2009
Katherine wrote:
<quoted text>I have an additional 150 signatures for the womens top-free beach and 150 signatures to make shirts required on North St...
Why can't you just wear a two piece bikini and be happy with that, like 99% of Berkshire bathers or is it you might be a,'look at me everybody, person'.

You'd better be prepared for obcene jesters,for they are a definate attachment to your end result. or will you have every male who oogles, arrested on some lewd behavior or sexual harrassment charges.
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2652 May 17, 2009
I was at the beach today and there were many women without tops; there was no oggling, no lewd behavior, no women were arrested, charged with pedopheilia, and none had their children taken away... no one really cared, and the best looking chests on the beach were probably the gay men because they seem to work out and stay fit. The biggest breasts were on some overweight men.

why is it that in this country people believe they have a right to take others' freedom away?

why can't people just let others enjoy the outdoors as nature intended without projecting all of their own sexual and moral hangups, and then turning freedom into a crime?

sounds like this is going to be a hard sell in Pittsfield. maybe if you wore baseball glove styled pasties on your nipples people would be satisfied?
Katherine

United States

#2653 May 18, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:
sounds like this is going to be a hard sell in Pittsfield. maybe if you wore baseball glove styled pasties on your nipples people would be satisfied?
I know, the two who wrote in , above, one I know is from NY, the others ISP is NY. I don't think there are many public places in NY where women sunbathe topless, because indiviuals like the ones above continue to make it uncomfortable, even though the Law has been changed..
Male registered sex offenders roam the streets and beaches with their shirts off. I believe that the right to walk shirt -free, especially in States where women do not have the same right, gives men an over inflated sense of power and entitlement. Mass. has a large number of male registered sex offenders, could the inequality inherent in this ordinance be partly reponsible for the abundance of sex crimes committed by men against women and children?
I think the inequality inherent in this ordinance IS partly responsible for the abundance of sex crimes commited by men against women and children: Because swim wear reflects and conveys the idea of male power and entitlement and womens weakness and dependency, women take on the role of powerless to defend themselves or to speak up for themselves and their children..
When women swim or sunbathe topless no sexual act with or against another person has occured, how then can they be charged with a sex crime and be required to register as a sex offender?
Katherine

United States

#2654 May 18, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:
that's a good question, i'm interested to hear her answer..
I don't like the question and I don't think it's a good question, but I'll answer it-
"KG/Ms P. I propose a question to you: Do you feel it is the same to go topless on the beach as it is a 50 year old man going bottomless in front of all to see on the same beach?
I think the laws are in effect for a good reason. Don't you?
Once again, if you want to sunbath topless, do it in your own back yard and not on a PUBLIC BEACH. If you insist on making a public spectacle of your self than you deserve to spent some time in county jail and lose your son and be labeled a pedophile, or at least a flasher."

Laws prohibiting motorcyclists from modifying engines are in effect for a good reason, leash laws are in effect for a good reason, posted speeds are in effect for good reason-

Do men and women who walk the public streets with dogs off leashes deserve to be arrested, incarcerated and labeled murderers because their animal COULD have run off and mauled someone?

Are men and women who ride the public streets with high decibal modified engines arrested and labeled monsters because they blew out someones eardrums and made children cry?

Do speeders deserve to be arrested, incarcerated and labeled murderers because they COULD have caused a fatal accident?

Why then should I or any woman be arrested and labeled a pedofile because we take our tops off to swim and sunbathe at public beaches?
How EXACTLY are children or anyone harmed by women taking their tops off to swim or sunbathe?
I think children and all people are harmed by Not being exposed equally to both mens and womens chests..
I am not asking for full nudity, I am asking for equal rights to sunbathe nude from the waist up , just as men do.

I had an opportunity to present a photo collage of myself, my son and my boyfriend at Charleston Beach in RI ,(it is a 4 photo display, I am topless), to a Department of Children and Families Social Worker. I asked her if I was within my rights to dispay the photo openly in my home and if I had to take it down when my son starts bringing friends into the house.
She said I was within my rights, nudity in itself is not a crime....
Katherine

United States

#2655 May 18, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:
Katherine, that's great that you have so many signatures, i hope you go ahead and submit and let them tell you if it's too late...
I was thinking last night, you could have another petition(s) that simply reads something like (off the top of my head):
I request that the City Council adopt a resolution in light of the recent passage of Massachusetts law, Chapter 111, Section 221:
It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that, per MA law, Ch. 11, S. 221 (b):
"Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, the act of a mother breastfeeding her child, and any exposure of a breast incidental thereto that is solely for the purpose of nursing such child, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct."
And, furthermore, per City Code (Ord 702):
It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield to see that each individual, regardless of his sex shall have equal opportunity in or access to recreation; to protect each individual in the enjoyment of his civil rights; and to encourage and bring about mutual understanding and respect among all individuals in the City by the elimination of prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, discrimination and the disorder occasioned thereby.
Therefore:
It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that any exposure of the female breast for the purpose of recreation while swimming or sunbathing, in places where men are allowed to expose the male breast, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct.
It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that anyone who discriminates against or harasses any woman who exposes any portion of her breast for the purposes of breast feeding, swimming, or sunbathing, shall be punished under applicable laws.
Thank you..
Katherine

United States

#2656 May 18, 2009
"I request that the City Council adopt a resolution in light of the recent passage of Massachusetts law, Chapter 111, Section 221:

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that, per MA law, Ch. 11, S. 221 (b):

"Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, the act of a mother breastfeeding her child, and any exposure of a breast incidental thereto that is solely for the purpose of nursing such child, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct."

And, furthermore, per City Code (Ord 702):

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield to see that each individual, regardless of his sex shall have equal opportunity in or access to recreation; to protect each individual in the enjoyment of his civil rights; and to encourage and bring about mutual understanding and respect among all individuals in the City by the elimination of prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, discrimination and the disorder occasioned thereby.

Therefore:

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that any exposure of the female breast for the purpose of recreation while swimming or sunbathing, in places where men are allowed to expose the male breast, shall not be considered lewd, indecent, immoral, or unlawful conduct.

It is the policy of the City of Pittsfield that anyone who discriminates against or harasses any woman who exposes any portion of her breast for the purposes of breast feeding, swimming, or sunbathing, shall be punished under applicable laws."

THANK YOU
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2657 May 18, 2009
Katherine wrote:
<quoted text>I don't like the question and I don't think it's a good question, but I'll answer it-
"KG/Ms P. I propose a question to you: Do you feel it is the same to go topless on the beach as it is a 50 year old man going bottomless in front of all to see on the same beach?
I think the laws are in effect for a good reason. Don't you?
Once again, if you want to sunbath topless, do it in your own back yard and not on a PUBLIC BEACH. If you insist on making a public spectacle of your self than you deserve to spent some time in county jail and lose your son and be labeled a pedophile, or at least a flasher."
Laws prohibiting motorcyclists from modifying engines are in effect for a good reason, leash laws are in effect for a good reason, posted speeds are in effect for good reason-
Do men and women who walk the public streets with dogs off leashes deserve to be arrested, incarcerated and labeled murderers because their animal COULD have run off and mauled someone?
Are men and women who ride the public streets with high decibal modified engines arrested and labeled monsters because they blew out someones eardrums and made children cry?
Do speeders deserve to be arrested, incarcerated and labeled murderers because they COULD have caused a fatal accident?
Why then should I or any woman be arrested and labeled a pedofile because we take our tops off to swim and sunbathe at public beaches?
How EXACTLY are children or anyone harmed by women taking their tops off to swim or sunbathe?
I think children and all people are harmed by Not being exposed equally to both mens and womens chests..
I am not asking for full nudity, I am asking for equal rights to sunbathe nude from the waist up , just as men do.
I had an opportunity to present a photo collage of myself, my son and my boyfriend at Charleston Beach in RI ,(it is a 4 photo display, I am topless), to a Department of Children and Families Social Worker. I asked her if I was within my rights to dispay the photo openly in my home and if I had to take it down when my son starts bringing friends into the house.
She said I was within my rights, nudity in itself is not a crime....
your answer is why it was a good question.

yes, children are harmed by perpetuating the sexual objectification of the female breast. right now the government is sanctioning sexual harrassment, discrimination, etc., and teaching children that breasts should be hidden from anyone except doctors, sexual partners, and strip club audiences. that attitude is the product of a sexually deluded mind, habituated by our culture, we are all victims, and will be, until we change social norms. men are actually weakened by this situation, because they react sexually to the site of breasts until they are desensitized, but until they are desensitized, some males can become aggressive sexually. similarly, some women are empowered by the sexual power they derive from their breasts, people have to be willing to give up the power positions gained from these sexual projections. the best way to do it is to take the sexual charge out of the female breast, just like taking alcohol out of beer. a topless beach soon becomes like O'Douls, looks like a breast, tastes like a breast, but you don't get drunk off it.

Pittsfield doesn't like change, so this will be difficult to accomplish. Maybe start with topless cheerleaders at Wahconah Park ;)
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2658 May 18, 2009
It might be worth writing the State Reps who got the breastfeeding bill passed with the language stating that exposure of the breast is not lewd, etc...
Senator Susan Fargo was a main leader in Senate:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/member/scf0.htm

Party Affiliation - DEMOCRAT
State House E-Mail Address: [email protected]
And, David Linksy in the House:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/member/dpl1.htm

E-Mail: [email protected] s
Sophisticated Thug

Boston, MA

#2659 May 18, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:
that's a good question, i'm interested to hear her answer. here in miami, it's the same for men and women to be topless on the beach or at hotel or condo pools, etc.. both have to wear g-strings at least on the bottom.
breasts aren't designed for copulation, so that would be the anatomical difference.
i think the goal would be to make it "allowed" socially for women to remove their shirts at beaches or in parks where men can, because the intent isn't sexual.
whether pittsfield is ready for that is another question, but obviously you have to start somewhere.
Funny story here. years ago I was at a topless beach catching some rays..anyhow abunch of " men" I'd call them boys started in calling and making remarks at the girls.So I stand up (now bear in mind I'm built and with no shirt on I'm pretty intimidating) I tell the guys to shut up..so no I'm a big hero..spend the rest of the day surrounded by topless women and end up leaving with three of them. I was a pretty tough kid so scaring of the yackos was no problem.

Singled out

“You can't keep the truth down”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#2660 May 18, 2009
Why must you feel free only in PUBLIC areas,BE FREE AT HOME. As for equality....

...You wanted to wear mans pants, you got it.

In the {1920's}, you wanted to smoke in public,you got it.
show your ankles, you got it.{1930's}
your calves, you got it.{1940's}
your knee caps, you got it.{1950's}
your thighs, you got it.{1960's}
and your G-string, you got it.{1970'S}
All are still allowed.

You wanted to vote, you got it.

You wanted equal working rights, you got it.
Politician,{President almost}, Truck driver, Mailman, Milkman, Lawyer, Judge, Armed Forces, Polceman, Spaceman. Priest/ Preacher,etc etc.

But you will NEVER GET our stand up urinal, you will remain seated on that one, please.

So why this big deal to show your nipples, for that is the area of concern to you. Some women wear 3 band-aids. They're legal and those woman are not asking to remove them. Why do you want to remove the 1% of modesty that is left.

They have local nudists camps if your into nudity.

Just as you would cover up in front of your teenage children at home you should have the same decency for other peoples children in public.
Male chests have been exposed thru all time and it is socially accepted,worldwide.

What do you think 6 years old and up, teens and all adult males. up to George Burns age, will do when they see you bouncing down the jogging path at Onota Lake. You don't seriously think they will simply say 'nice day for jogging' do you. Keep the band aids on they let us use our imagination for what lies beneath.
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2661 May 18, 2009
haha, that's a funny post. it's a good question, would the pittsfield police harrass a woman for wearing only pasties on her nipples?

what if the pasties read official Pittsfield, MA pasties?

for the record, in the early 1900s it was illegal for men to remove their bathing suit tops at beaches in the united states, even here in Miami Beach men were arrested. it took courageous men to brave social customs and laws, and change society. it was too provocative back then, yet a hundred years earlier skinny-dipping was common social custom as no bathing suits were available (invented).

really, though, we're all adults, we've seen nipples, what's the big deal, there's hardly a difference between the male and female nipple, right, except to an infant?

in much of the world it is socially acceptable for women to be topless, in europe, in africa, in some caribbean islands, south pacific, austin, texas, boulder, colorado, parts of oregon, california, canada, beaches in long island, new york, and new jersey, martha's vineyard and places in cape cod, etc...

it used to be socially acceptable to have slaves, and to deny women the right to vote, expose their ankles, etc., as you point out.

why can't it be socially acceptable in the 21st century to allow women the same freedom as men, and to prohibit discrimination and sexual harrassment against women.

local nudist camps are expensive, public lands should be for public use, a privacy screen to separate a small portion of a beach should be unnecessary, but it would prevent the easily offended from seeing a female nipple and losing their sanity.

if men start sitting in trees with binoculars masturbating, arrest them for lewd behavior.

also, a few bandaids on a female breast is more sexually stimulating than natural expose of the breast

that's my response anyway ;)
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2662 May 18, 2009
btw, great story sophisticated thug! if only the cops were like you!

Singled out

“You can't keep the truth down”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#2663 May 18, 2009
I'm not against going naked. My point was:

This is not Miami, the Riviera, Playa Lynda,Daytona Beach, Europe, Girls Gone Wild, or any other place where it is publicly accepted.

You're talking Pittsfield,Mass.
The gangs, teens and some others will have a field day.

Hey there's only one way to find out.go do it. Cops have to see you naked to arrest you, other than that you get a warning if someone complains. Walk around at the beach for a day and see.
miamilegal69

Boca Raton, FL

#2664 May 18, 2009
ah, that is a good point, there are certain individuals who might cause problems, especially in Pittsfield which has been a dumping ground for the mentally challenged over the last couple decades.

i guess it should be up to the individual to try it and see what happens, and then deal with the consequences. somehow women got to be able to wear mini-skirts and bikini tops in pittsfield, but of course, people might have been more well-behaved back then...

personally, for pittsfield, i think the city should start by recognizing a woman's right to expose her breast for certain non-sexual purposes in certain areas and make a statement that sexual harrassment of women won't be tolerated.

societal pressure would probably prevent top-free sunbathing from happening, except at certain times, in certain areas, where one might reasonably assume privacy.

at least it would remove the fear of arrest, and set, at least in theory, a new cultural norm.

it's legal in new york, and except for a few beaches i don't think it's happening, but it sends a positive message to promote freedom and equality, even if it isn't utilized by the masses.

just like decriminalizing marijuana, people shouldn't be locked up for smoking MJ anymore than they should be for drinking a beer, but you won't see many people lighting up a joint, it's a matter of personal choice.

i'd like to see someone get away with wearing bandaids without attracting stares and ogles, but in pittsfield probably wouldn't happen either.

Singled out

“You can't keep the truth down”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#2665 May 18, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:
haha, that's a funny post. it's a good question, would the pittsfield police harrass a woman for wearing only pasties on her nipples?
what if the pasties read official Pittsfield, MA pasties?
for the record, in the early 1900s it was illegal for men to remove their bathing suit tops at beaches in the united states, even here in Miami Beach men were arrested. it took courageous men to brave social customs and laws, and change society. it was too provocative back then, yet a hundred years earlier skinny-dipping was common social custom as no bathing suits were available (invented).
really, though, we're all adults, we've seen nipples, what's the big deal, there's hardly a difference between the male and female nipple, right, except to an infant?
in much of the world it is socially acceptable for women to be topless, in europe, in africa, in some caribbean islands, south pacific, austin, texas, boulder, colorado, parts of oregon, california, canada, beaches in long island, new york, and new jersey, martha's vineyard and places in cape cod, etc...
it used to be socially acceptable to have slaves, and to deny women the right to vote, expose their ankles, etc., as you point out.
why can't it be socially acceptable in the 21st century to allow women the same freedom as men, and to prohibit discrimination and sexual harrassment against women.
local nudist camps are expensive, public lands should be for public use, a privacy screen to separate a small portion of a beach should be unnecessary, but it would prevent the easily offended from seeing a female nipple and losing their sanity.
if men start sitting in trees with binoculars masturbating, arrest them for lewd behavior.
also, a few bandaids on a female breast is more sexually stimulating than natural expose of the breast
that's my response anyway ;)
what if the pasties read official Pittsfield, MA pasties?

now that's funny .
Katherine

United States

#2666 May 19, 2009
miamilegal69 wrote:

why is it that in this country people believe they have a right to take others' freedom away?
I want the freedom to drive slow, to drive 5-15 miles under or exactly at the speed limit..that desire is also not well received..
miamilegal69 wrote:
maybe if you wore baseball glove styled pasties on your nipples people would be satisfied?
The crocheted bikini top seems to satisfy people and myself, air and sunlight gets through, but there is the illusion of cover just by there being some material between skin and air.
The material can be adjusted to allow sun and air to reach nipples and breast, where with pasties besides pasties being more provocative than totally topless, they do not allow air or sunlight to reach the nipples and breast. Air and sunshine on nipples and breast is the purpose behind the desire to have this passed..
Singled out wrote:
why this big deal to show your nipples, for that is the area of concern to you. Some women wear 3 band-aids. They're legal and those woman are not asking to remove them. Why do you want to remove the 1% of modesty that is left.
They have local nudists camps if your into nudity.
Just as you would cover up in front of your teenage children at home you should have the same decency for other peoples children in public.
Male chests have been exposed thru all time and it is socially accepted,worldwide.
What do you think 6 years old and up, teens and all adult males. up to George Burns age, will do when they see you bouncing down the jogging path at Onota Lake. You don't seriously think they will simply say 'nice day for jogging' do you. Keep the band aids on they let us use our imagination for what lies beneath.
I'm not into nudity, I am into equal access to sunshine from the waist up at all public swim settings.
What they say won't affect me any more than what they say now, boys and men harass and ogle now, with women complying with the swim wear law..
This is not about satisfying or not satisfying your wish to nurture an active imagination, this is about equal access to sunshine from the waist up for both women and men..
Singled out wrote:
...You wanted to wear mans pants, you got it.
In the {1920's}, you wanted to smoke in public,you got it.
show your ankles, you got it.{1930's}
your calves, you got it.{1940's}
your knee caps, you got it.{1950's}
your thighs, you got it.{1960's}
and your G-string, you got it.{1970'S}
All are still allowed.
.
Are men aroused by women in miniskirts and high heels?
Women walk freely down mainstreet in provocative attire. Yet it has been determined that a women dressed in a miniskirt on mainstreet is not responsible (due to her going out of her way by her way of dressing to create an atmoshere of arousal and attraction) if she is attacked.
I want to take my shirt off when I swim and tan at the Lake, just as men do. If some man is aroused, just as in the case of the man aroused by the woman in miniskirt, I should not be held responsible for any bad behavior he may display...
People say "I don't want my kids around topless women"
I don't want my kid around topless men..
I don't want my kid around candy advertisements..
I don't want my kid around cigarrette smokers..
I don't want my kid around women in miniskirts and make-up..
But this is a free country and it is ME who has to come to grips with my discomfort around those exposures, people have inalienable rights to eat, drink and dress how they please...
men and women, boys and girls are supposed to be equal in those rights...

Singled out

“You can't keep the truth down”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#2667 May 19, 2009
So take it off, take it all off.

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