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JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75900 Aug 17, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

But, Joel, the equinox and solstice are not defined by climate. They are defined by the position of the sun with resulting length of day. There is nothing remarkable about noting equinox and solstice. They happen twice per year, every year.
LOL.

If say an equinox takes place on date X when it is spring in present times then in the distant past when it was winter on date X due to climate change brought on by tilt of the earth's axis the same equinox would take place and would be called a winter equinox.

Besides, the changing tilt of the earth over millennia would cause a difference in the location of the heat zones in terms of latitudinal extent as well as in the apparent movement of the sun between the tropics which would as a result either shrink or extend as the case may be through the 0 degree latitudes.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75901 Aug 17, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

What you fail to grasp is that almost every culture on Earth has the story of a great flood. Africans; Pacific Islanders; Native Americans; Chinese; Pagan Europeans; etc. Gives it a lot of credibility.
Global flood is first recorded in the Vedas and thereafter in other cultures.

There's no geological evidence to support the same and it is illogical to speak of taking on board the ship single pairs of the tens of millions of species including aquatic and aerial and subterranean forms that were then present and it is silly to assume that these individual pairs restart life after the flood which would result in incest of the worst kind that would wipe out or retard the subsequent generations.

The global flood myth is a mystical event as narrated in my previous post on the subject.
Eric

Aurora, IL

#75902 Aug 17, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
If say an equinox takes place on date X when it is spring in present times then in the distant past when it was winter on date X due to climate change brought on by tilt of the earth's axis the same equinox would take place and would be called a winter equinox.
Besides, the changing tilt of the earth over millennia would cause a difference in the location of the heat zones in terms of latitudinal extent as well as in the apparent movement of the sun between the tropics which would as a result either shrink or extend as the case may be through the 0 degree latitudes.
And, they happen each year. Nothing remarkable.
Eric

Aurora, IL

#75903 Aug 17, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Global flood is first recorded in the Vedas and thereafter in other cultures.
There's no geological evidence to support the same and it is illogical to speak of taking on board the ship single pairs of the tens of millions of species including aquatic and aerial and subterranean forms that were then present and it is silly to assume that these individual pairs restart life after the flood which would result in incest of the worst kind that would wipe out or retard the subsequent generations.
The global flood myth is a mystical event as narrated in my previous post on the subject.
Joel, you need to get your story straight. Vedas or Sanskrit? If Vedas, you have told us the extreme accuracy of the Vedas. Now not so accurate?

And, explain to me how the Polynesians came in contact with the Vedas?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75904 Monday Aug 18
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
If say an equinox takes place on date X when it is spring in present times then in the distant past when it was winter on date X due to climate change brought on by tilt of the earth's axis the same equinox would take place and would be called a winter equinox.
Besides, the changing tilt of the earth over millennia would cause a difference in the location of the heat zones in terms of latitudinal extent as well as in the apparent movement of the sun between the tropics which would as a result either shrink or extend as the case may be through the 0 degree latitudes.
what you are describing - change in the orbital configuration - is not climate change. It may lead to climate change. Therefore Eric was correct and you are desperately trying to save yourself.

The real problem is that you cut and paste without reading it first.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75905 Monday Aug 18
JOEL wrote:
PERIODIC TILTS OF THE EARTH OVER MILLENNIA GIVE RISE TO CLIMATE CHANGE
Natural tilts in earth's axis cause ice ages, says Harvard scientist - and their cycles could help predict the next one. Tilts cause glaciers to advance and retreat. Two cycles combine to cause ice ages could help predict long-term changes in climate.
By Rob Waugh
UPDATED: 19:15 GMT, 2 February 2012
The idea that slight shifts in Earth's axis might have been enough to trigger the ice ages is a century old. But a Harvard earth sciences Professor Peter Huybers has finally proved it, using computer models to test competing ideas - and finding that earth's tilting axis is the only one that works.
The finding could have profound implications for our understanding of our planet's climate - and could, its author says, be crucial to 'predicting long-term changes in future climate.'
Two 'cycles' in the way Earth's axis spins have an effect on the cycle - one lasting 10,000 years and one lasting roughly 40,000 years. When they align correctly, ice melts. At the other extreme, glaciers advance.
The idea that these could dictate the cycles of glaciation in Earth's climate was first proposed by Serbian geophysicist Milutin Milankovitch in the first half of the twentieth century.
such NEW news that I remember learning about this over 30 years in school during Earth Science class

stick to navel gazing

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75906 Monday Aug 18
JOEL wrote:
ASTRONOMICAL EVENTS MENTIONED IN THE VEDAS:
The Vedas mention references to the night sky and astronomical events as a way of referencing the date/time of the events being described. Below are references to some of these mentions along with when they were last observed based on computer simulations of the night sky:
A) Rig Veda:
1) Winter equinox in Ashwini (7000 BC)
2) Revati at the winter solstice (6000 BC)
3) Vernal Equinox in Punarvasu (5000-6000BC)
4) Vernal equinox in Mrigashira (5000 BC)
B) The Yajur Veda:
1) Krittika at the winter solstice (8500 BC)
2) Purvabhadrapada nakshatra as rising due east (10000 BC)
sources:
. Origins of Vedic Civilization by Kenneth Chandler, Ph.D
. Gods, Sages and Kings: Vedic Secrets of Ancient Civilization By David Frawley
Gee, a bunch of barely literate cavemen sitting around at night without electricity having nothing better to do but to gaze at the night school.

And they discover that daylight and nighttime length is variable.

Shocked, Shocked, Shocked...maybe a Nobel prize for science.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75907 Monday Aug 18
oops - I meant night sky
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75908 Tuesday Aug 19
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

what you are describing - change in the orbital configuration - is not climate change. It may lead to climate change.
Eric being intellectually dull did not get my point and you too have missed the reasoning since you have a low IQ.

I never referred to ORBITAL CONFIGURATION (or change in the rate of rotation of the earth) which would only be subject to change if the centrifugal and Coriolis forces acting respectively within the geo-mass and normal to the earth's horizontal plane would undergo a change and this would most likely be determined by the earth's NiFe core depending on whether it discharges greater or lesser amounts of EM field effects which cause rotation.

I simply said that a change in the earth's tilt away from the vertical (due to tectonic activity or due to external gravitational effects acting on the earth) would result in seasonal changes and that over the millennia (due to the changing tilt of the earth's axis with respect to the vertical), climate changes have taken place leading thereby to change of temperature and shifting heat zones and changing latitudes.

With gradual changing tilt of the earth's axis leading finally to pole shift, the mathematical constructs called latitudes would shift and hence the tropics that range from 23.5 degree N/S of the 0 degree latitude would also shift and the incoming solar insolation, would, as a result of the changing tilt, create new heat zones (torrid, temperate and frigid) and these would logically speaking be positioned on new latitudes which would not tally with the present values.

Climate has changed immensely over the millennia and so it is possible that the Aryans living at/near the North Pole experienced winter in September itself millennia ago thereby giving rise to a winter equinox.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75909 Tuesday Aug 19
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

And they discover that daylight and nighttime length is variable.
Ok, "genius" with a doctorate in a scientific discipline (LOL!), let's find out if your fundamental understanding of science is passable.

Isn't the length of day and night variable? Or due you think it is constant?

What two factors would determine length of day/night on earth?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75910 Tuesday Aug 19
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Eric being intellectually dull did not get my point and you too have missed the reasoning since you have a low IQ.
I never referred to ORBITAL CONFIGURATION (or change in the rate of rotation of the earth) which would only be subject to change if the centrifugal and Coriolis forces acting respectively within the geo-mass and normal to the earth's horizontal plane would undergo a change and this would most likely be determined by the earth's NiFe core depending on whether it discharges greater or lesser amounts of EM field effects which cause rotation.
I simply said that a change in the earth's tilt away from the vertical (due to tectonic activity or due to external gravitational effects acting on the earth) would result in seasonal changes and that over the millennia (due to the changing tilt of the earth's axis with respect to the vertical), climate changes have taken place leading thereby to change of temperature and shifting heat zones and changing latitudes.
With gradual changing tilt of the earth's axis leading finally to pole shift, the mathematical constructs called latitudes would shift and hence the tropics that range from 23.5 degree N/S of the 0 degree latitude would also shift and the incoming solar insolation, would, as a result of the changing tilt, create new heat zones (torrid, temperate and frigid) and these would logically speaking be positioned on new latitudes which would not tally with the present values.
Climate has changed immensely over the millennia and so it is possible that the Aryans living at/near the North Pole experienced winter in September itself millennia ago thereby giving rise to a winter equinox.
Again, none of this is news. I remember hearing about this mroe than 30 years ago in Earth Science class. Maybe you need to go back to watching Wild Kingdom.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75911 Tuesday Aug 19
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, "genius" with a doctorate in a scientific discipline (LOL!), let's find out if your fundamental understanding of science is passable.
Isn't the length of day and night variable? Or due you think it is constant?
What two factors would determine length of day/night on earth?
All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75912 Tuesday Aug 19
Yawn. dunce. LOL.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75913 Tuesday Aug 19
Where's HUGH? He's been missing for a few weeks. I guess he's honeymooning with his new boyfriend. LOL.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#75914 Tuesday Aug 19
scirocco wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Abram was not Jewish until he arrived in the land of Israel and changed his name to reflect his belief. His progeny have become the children of Israel.
BTW, aren't Arabs from Arabia? Is that where Palestinians claim their ancestry is?
So who has the oldest claim and lived there the longest?
Abraham lived in Ur but wasn't from there. Mesopotamian cities had sections inhabited by various outside ethnic groups who were there mostly for trade. Abraham's group at that point could be considered Hebrew or perhaps still Canaanite, but the two ethnicities derived from the same ancestors, who were “proto-Canaanites”. The Hebrews, thererfore, were from the Levant. They had lived in the Levant, which includes the territory of modern Israel, for a very long time. Likely they had been involved in the creation of the Neolithic some 12,000 years ago.

One DNA analysis of the “Palestinians” showed them to be largely of Bedouin origin, which means they came from Arabia.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#75915 Tuesday Aug 19
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Global flood is first recorded in the Vedas and thereafter in other cultures.
There's no geological evidence to support the same and it is illogical to speak of taking on board the ship single pairs of the tens of millions of species including aquatic and aerial and subterranean forms that were then present and it is silly to assume that these individual pairs restart life after the flood which would result in incest of the worst kind that would wipe out or retard the subsequent generations.
The global flood myth is a mystical event as narrated in my previous post on the subject.
There is evidence of several floods, but not a global flood which is impossible. Where would the water come from to rise up enough to cover all land?

There was a flood when the Mediterranean broke through at the Bosporous to fill the Black Sea, hitherto a freshwater lake.

There were others when ice dams broke at the end of the last glacial period. This occurred in North America as well as Siberia.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#75916 Wednesday Aug 20
quote

Thus, historians of Vedic texts are frequently left to making highly inferential arguments for the works by various subtle, indirect clues.

Composition:
1200-1000 bce for the family books of the Rig Veda is based on the tentative ...

Earliest hymns of Rig-Veda composed. c. 1000–300 BCE: Iron ...

500 BCE - 200 BCE; Ramayana, 400 BCE - 400 CE; Mahabharata, 400 BCE - 400 CE ...

... rest of the Vedas, about 200 B.C

Actual old texts
The Rigveda was probably not written down until the Gupta period (4th to 6th centuries AD), by which time the Brahmi script had become widespread

As had astronomy
In short...the new kids on the block...

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#75917 Wednesday Aug 20
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
There is evidence of several floods, but not a global flood which is impossible. Where would the water come from to rise up enough to cover all land?
There was a flood when the Mediterranean broke through at the Bosporous to fill the Black Sea, hitherto a freshwater lake.
There were others when ice dams broke at the end of the last glacial period. This occurred in North America as well as Siberia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civ...

...and the Ghaggar-Hakra River, which once coursed through northwest India and eastern Pakistan.[4]
The wide river bed (paleo-channel) of the Ghaggar river suggest that the river once flowed full of water during the great meltdown of the Himalayan Ice Age glaciers, some 10,000 years ago, and that it then continued through the entire region, in the presently dry channel of the Hakra River, possibly emptying into the Rann of Kutch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_Ri...

The Yamuna shifted its course eastwards, supposedly in the early 2nd millennium BCE, allegedly reaching its current bed by 1st millennium BCE, while the Drishadvati bed retained only a small seasonal flow. The Sutlej several times over shifted its channel northwards and was eventually captured by the Indus system. The water loss due to these movements caused the Sarasvati river to dry up in the Thar Desert.[14][15]

Which got blocked by earthquake and dammed up debris near the Himalaya and caused a massive surge/flood when it had to find a new course.

The Rig Vedic hymn X 75, however, gives a list of names of rivers where Sarasvati is merely mentioned while Sindhu receives praise.

It ended what is thought the Meluhha tradecity near the sea around 2000 bce.
Very old songs in the region relate the time of the golden river.
see map Late Harappan Period, c. 1900-1300 BCE

o.f.i.
Outposts of the Indus Valley civilization were excavated as far west as Sutkagan Dor in Baluchistan, as far north as at Shortugai on the Amu Darya (the river's ancient name was Oxus) in current Afghanistan, as far east as at Alamgirpur, Uttar Pradesh, India and as far south as at Malwan, Surat Dist., India.[17]

In 2010, heavy floods hit Haryana in India and damaged the archaeological site of Jognakhera, where ancient copper smelting were found dating back almost 5,000 years. The Indus Valley Civilization site was hit by almost 10 feet of water as the Sutlej Yamuna link canal overflowed.[18]

Which would have been normal since cities had huge basins and canals to take any kind of wanted flooding to their advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_Ri...
an intermittent river
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75918 Wednesday Aug 20
ASTRONOMICAL EVIDENCE OF THE ANTIQUITY OF INDO-ARYAN CIVILIZATION:

NOTE: The following piece of research dates back to Krishna, a recent figure in the annals of Indic religion, but the history of the Vedas precedes the age of Krishna and goes back tens of thousands of years to the true home of the Vedic Aryans which was the circumpolar region. Dr B G Tilak and other scholars have used the textual information to corroborate this origin of the Aryans and the Zend Avesta supports it with other astronomical observations.

RECENT ADVANCES

1) Dr Narhari Achar, professor of physics at the University of Memphis, Tennessee, has dated the Mahabharata war, in which Krishna features, using astronomy and regular planetarium software. According to his research conducted in 2004-05, the titanic clash between the Pandavas and the Kauravas took place in 3067 BC. Using the same software, Dr Achar places the year of Krishna’s birth at 3112 BC.

2) Dr Manish Pandit, a nuclear medicine physician in the UK, after examining the astronomical, archaeological and linguistic evidence, agrees with Dr Achar’s conclusions. Dr Pandit, who is also a distinguished astrologer and has written several books on the subject, traced the route of Krishna’s journeys to shoot the documentary,“Krishna: History or Myth?” Dr Pandit says there are more than 140 astronomy references in the Mahabharata. Simulations of the night sky have been combined with geographical descriptions to arrive at various dates. He says the chances of these references repeating are next to nothing.

4) According to historian S.M. Ali, the author of Geography of Puranas,“The geographical matter contained in the Mahabharata is immense. It is perhaps the only great work which deals with geographic details and not incidentally, as other works.”

5) Google: Time Line of Krishna -

(An Excerpt from "Advancements of Ancient India’s Vedic Culture")

By Stephen Knapp

6) The date of Rama goes back much further than the date of Krishna on Indian soil.

Remember: The research using the Vedas themselves shows that the Vedas were initiated at the arctic region many millennia ago. The events relating to India like say the narratives of Rama and Krishna arise after the migration from the arctic region of a few lines of the Aryans into Persia and India.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75919 Wednesday Aug 20
RAMA PREDATES KRISHNA

1) Another point we could discuss is the approximate date of Rama.

2) Rama appeared in the Solar Dynasty, but even the time frame of his appearance may shed more light on the antiquity of Vedic culture on Indian soil after the Aryans entered India.

3) Naturally, scholars have different views on when he may have existed. Some say he was here a few thousand years before Krishna. In fact, in an April 2011 edition of the Times of India, Saurabh Kwatra writes that using the zodiac and the recorded tithees, days marked according to the phases of the moon, he calculated that the birth of Rama, as related in the Valmiki Ramayana, was December 4th, 7323 BCE.

4) While using other forms of planetary computer software, others have come up with other dates. Though these may be some of the more recent calculations, still the tradition places the era of Rama much earlier than that.

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