Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72042 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Eric

Des Plaines, IL

#74579 Jun 19, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Son a FEE comes at a PRICE.
Eric---Not always. Sometimes it comes at a percentage.
HughBe--- Percentage of what?
Eric---A price is "the amount of money expected, required, or given in payment for something." A contingent fee has no amount of money expected or required. It's all contingent on receipt of an unliquidated amount and the percentage assigned thereto.
HughBe--- I like your sense of humour, Eric. Is the percentage that you speak of assigned to NOTHING? Are you really saying that a contingent fee is not linked to EXPECTATIONS?
Do you know what a contingent fee is? In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated. For example, personal injury attorneys only get paid if their clients get money from the person who allegedly injured them. No money; no fee. If the client gets money, the attorney gets a percentage of what the client gets--normally 1/3. It doesn't matter how much time has been spent on the case. It doesn't matter how much the client gets. The attorney gets 1/3. And, 1/3 of nothing is nothing.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74580 Jun 19, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>Do you know what a contingent fee is? In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated. For example, personal injury attorneys only get paid if their clients get money from the person who allegedly injured them. No money; no fee. If the client gets money, the attorney gets a percentage of what the client gets--normally 1/3. It doesn't matter how much time has been spent on the case. It doesn't matter how much the client gets. The attorney gets 1/3. And, 1/3 of nothing is nothing.
1. HughBe--- What I know is that when points are not answered then understanding is hampered.

2. I have noted your "In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"

3. I want you to understand that there is an EXPECTATION of payment in your words.

So go back to the post below.

HughBe--- Son a FEE comes at a PRICE.

Eric---Not always. Sometimes it comes at a percentage.

HughBe--- Percentage of what?

Eric---A price is "the amount of money expected, required, or given in payment for something." A contingent fee has no amount of money expected or required. It's all contingent on receipt of an unliquidated amount and the percentage assigned thereto.

HughBe--- I like your sense of humour, Eric. Is the percentage that you speak of assigned to NOTHING? Are you really saying that a contingent fee is not linked to EXPECTATIONS?
Eric

Des Plaines, IL

#74581 Jun 19, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
1. HughBe--- What I know is that when points are not answered then understanding is hampered.
2. I have noted your "In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"
3. I want you to understand that there is an EXPECTATION of payment in your words.
So Hugh, what is the price in a contingent fee arrangement? What will the attorney receive if there is no return?

And, it is unethical and illegal to espouse an expectation of success.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74582 Jun 19, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
So Hugh, what is the price in a contingent fee arrangement? What will the attorney receive if there is no return?
And, it is unethical and illegal to espouse an expectation of success.
Understanding is key. There is an EXPECTATION involved.

If there is NO EXPECTATIONS of success then why and HOW do YOU negotiate for a percentage of the SUCCESS? Recall your words, "If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74583 Jun 19, 2014
Eric

Unanswered--- Are you really saying that a contingent fee is not linked to EXPECTATIONS?
Eric

Des Plaines, IL

#74584 Jun 19, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Understanding is key. There is an EXPECTATION involved.
If there is NO EXPECTATIONS of success then why and HOW do YOU negotiate for a percentage of the SUCCESS? Recall your words, "If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"
It's fairly standard in the profession. 1/3 for personal injury. 1/5 for workers compensation. 2/5 if the case goes up on appeal. In the tight economy attorneys are lowering the percentage to get cases.

I worked as a non-testifying expert for plaintiffs in a case one summer after tax season. Spent at least 8 hours a day and at least 5 days a week for 3 months. We lost at trial. I got nothing.

There is no price. There is a percentage.
Eric

Des Plaines, IL

#74585 Jun 19, 2014
HughBe wrote:
Eric
Unanswered--- Are you really saying that a contingent fee is not linked to EXPECTATIONS?
No standard percentage by type of case. It doesn't go up or down if the case looks lucrative. It does go up or down if its a tough or easy case to prove liability.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#74587 Jun 20, 2014
Good boy. Bad boy.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#74588 Jun 20, 2014
HughBe wrote:
Eric
Unanswered--- Are you really saying that a contingent fee is not linked to EXPECTATIONS?
I assume you are interpreting that to mean "expectation of success". If so, you are wrong. It would be hoped that success would be achieved, but not expected, as the attorney does not fully control the outcome. I have the parallel situation in my industry, though my fee structure is not linked to final outcome. It is linked to participation in the process. I suppose you could make that the trigger that would elicit the "price". But no self respecting business person in my field would lower themselves and demean themselves to consider this a price. It is considered a fee, as a physical commodity (i.e. something to be bought off the internet or in a retail store that is 100% comparable across vendors) is NOT being offered.

Its ok, its obvious you are not an entrepreneur. Consider this an education.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#74589 Jun 20, 2014
Yawn.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#74590 Jun 20, 2014
In a contingent fee arrangement, the lawyer agrees to accept a fixed percentage (often one third) of the recovery, which is the amount finally paid to the client. If you win the case, the lawyer's fee comes out of the money awarded to you.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#74591 Jun 20, 2014
HUGH,

In a contingent fee arrangement, the lawyer agrees to accept a fixed percentage (often one third) of the recovery, which is the amount finally paid to the client. If you win the case, the lawyer's fee comes out of the money awarded to you.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#74592 Jun 20, 2014
Hugh,

I want your jet black backside - what say?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74593 Jun 20, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>It's fairly standard in the profession. 1/3 for personal injury. 1/5 for workers compensation. 2/5 if the case goes up on appeal. In the tight economy attorneys are lowering the percentage to get cases.
I worked as a non-testifying expert for plaintiffs in a case one summer after tax season. Spent at least 8 hours a day and at least 5 days a week for 3 months. We lost at trial. I got nothing.
There is no price. There is a percentage.
And all of this means that you expected to LOSE from the start? So why bother?

"In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74594 Jun 20, 2014
JOEL wrote:
Hugh,
I want your jet black backside - what say?
I say that when it comes to backside the only way to go is white. Joel needs you Eric, where are you?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#74595 Jun 20, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I assume you are interpreting that to mean "expectation of success". If so, you are wrong. It would be hoped that success would be achieved, but not expected, as the attorney does not fully control the outcome. I have the parallel situation in my industry, though my fee structure is not linked to final outcome. It is linked to participation in the process. I suppose you could make that the trigger that would elicit the "price". But no self respecting business person in my field would lower themselves and demean themselves to consider this a price. It is considered a fee, as a physical commodity (i.e. something to be bought off the internet or in a retail store that is 100% comparable across vendors) is NOT being offered.
Its ok, its obvious you are not an entrepreneur. Consider this an education.
Apart from STUPIDITY, I want you and Eric to tell me why would anyone work for 3 full MONTHS with no EXPECTATIONS of being paid.

Recall Eric's words, I "Spent at least 8 hours a day and at least 5 days a week for 3 months."

Did Eric work for 5, 6 or even 7 days a WEEK for 3 months because he is kind and so acting out of charity?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#74596 Jun 20, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Apart from STUPIDITY, I want you and Eric to tell me why would anyone work for 3 full MONTHS with no EXPECTATIONS of being paid.
Recall Eric's words, I "Spent at least 8 hours a day and at least 5 days a week for 3 months."
Did Eric work for 5, 6 or even 7 days a WEEK for 3 months because he is kind and so acting out of charity?
No risk, no gain

Thats what self employment in private business is all about. Obviously you have a 9 to 5.

Obviously no one takes on an arrangement like that if they cant afford to loose on occasion.

It amazes me how little you know about how the world operates.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#74597 Jun 20, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
And all of this means that you expected to LOSE from the start? So why bother?
"In a contingent fee you only get paid if your client succeeds. No success; no fee. If your client does succeed, you get a percentage of the success that is pre-negotiated"
Ahhhh..I get your game

"EXPECT to lose"?

Expectations are beside the point. The point is to provide a service. He EXPECTS to perform a service. He HOPES to win. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. His business model is that he can afford to loose. In court,(and in my industry) the lawyer/consultant can not control the outcome, the best they can do is to offer reasonable representation to the parties involved in HOPES of being a positive influence to the process from the perspective of the client.

I would HOPE you would have better things to do with your day than to quibble over word choice (as you appear to be doing). But in the case you are truely naive about how some of the business world operates, I HOPE to be of help for no other reason but to manage your EXPECTATIONS.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#74598 Jun 20, 2014
ha ha ha ha ha

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#74599 Jun 20, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

I say that when it comes to backside the only way to go is white.
Nah, how mean on your part.

If you don't permit me to screw your jet black bum, then, let me at least see it without your torn undies screening it.

(winks)

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