Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72042 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72224 Apr 22, 2014
NOTES ON THE HEBREW AND ARAMAIC LANGUAGE

1) Yeshua Meshikha and His Apostles and disciples all spoke Aramaic. When they were in the synagogue, the weekly Torah (Aurayta) and Haftarah reading would be in Hebrew, followed by the Aramaic targum as was the custom probably since Nehemiah's time and still the custom of Yemenite Jews to this day.(See Nehemiah chapter 8).

2)“Of all Semitic languages the Aramaic is most closely related to the Hebrew, and forms with it, and possibly with the Assyrian, the northern group of Semitic languages. Aramaic, nevertheless, was considered by the ancient Hebrews as a foreign tongue; and a hundred years before the Babylonian exile it was understood only by people of culture in Jerusalem. Thus the ambassador of the Assyrian king who delivered an insolent message from his master in the Hebrew language and in the hearing of the people sitting upon the wall, was requested by the high officials of King Hezekiah not to speak in Hebrew, but in the "Syrian language," which they alone understood (II Kings xviii. 26; Isa. xxxvi. 11).

3) In the early Hebrew literature an Aramaic expression occurs once. In the narrative of the covenant between Jacob and Laban it is stated that each of them named in his own language the stone-heap built in testimony of their amity. Jacob called it "Galeed"; Laban used the Aramaic equivalent, "Jegar sahadutha" (Gen. xxxi. 47).

4) Aramaic was destined to become Israel's vernacular tongue; but before this could come about it was necessary that the national independence should be destroyed and the people removed from their own home. These events prepared the way for that great change by which the Jewish nation parted with its national tongue and replaced it, in some districts entirely by Aramaic, in others by the adoption of Aramaized-Hebrew forms. The immediate causes of this linguistic metamorphosis are no longer historically evident.

and more....

Google: Notes on the Hebrew and Aramaic Language

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72227 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Shut up, lying idiot.
When did I say that Jesus was buried in Spain?
Like you fake PhD, stop playing cunning games here.
Go and check yourself and don't be surprised.
years ago on Allah thread. Stefano probably remembers this, as well as Buford and any of the other regulars.

We have caught you making stuff up plenty of times. Why does this bother you NOW?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72228 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
NOTES ON THE HEBREW AND ARAMAIC LANGUAGE
1) Yeshua Meshikha and His Apostles and disciples all spoke Aramaic. When they were in the synagogue, the weekly Torah (Aurayta) and Haftarah reading would be in Hebrew, followed by the Aramaic targum as was the custom probably since Nehemiah's time and still the custom of Yemenite Jews to this day.(See Nehemiah chapter 8).
2)“Of all Semitic languages the Aramaic is most closely related to the Hebrew, and forms with it, and possibly with the Assyrian, the northern group of Semitic languages. Aramaic, nevertheless, was considered by the ancient Hebrews as a foreign tongue; and a hundred years before the Babylonian exile it was understood only by people of culture in Jerusalem. Thus the ambassador of the Assyrian king who delivered an insolent message from his master in the Hebrew language and in the hearing of the people sitting upon the wall, was requested by the high officials of King Hezekiah not to speak in Hebrew, but in the "Syrian language," which they alone understood (II Kings xviii. 26; Isa. xxxvi. 11).
3) In the early Hebrew literature an Aramaic expression occurs once. In the narrative of the covenant between Jacob and Laban it is stated that each of them named in his own language the stone-heap built in testimony of their amity. Jacob called it "Galeed"; Laban used the Aramaic equivalent, "Jegar sahadutha" (Gen. xxxi. 47).
4) Aramaic was destined to become Israel's vernacular tongue; but before this could come about it was necessary that the national independence should be destroyed and the people removed from their own home. These events prepared the way for that great change by which the Jewish nation parted with its national tongue and replaced it, in some districts entirely by Aramaic, in others by the adoption of Aramaized-Hebrew forms. The immediate causes of this linguistic metamorphosis are no longer historically evident.
and more....
Google: Notes on the Hebrew and Aramaic Language
yes, you know how to cut and paste. Not very impressive, though, as any Jewish person already knows this.

What you lack is application.

There are many prayers still used today in the Jewish tradition that are 100% Aramaic - and large portions of the Mishna/Talmud are written in this language as well.

Please post a link to the "millenial old" hebrew inscriptions. And you never explained what makes a grave Jewish. Because you can't

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72229 Apr 22, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>Do you realize that less than 30% of Jews follow the Talmud?
for the sake of others here (like Former Res), since I know you already know this...

When you say less than 30% of Jews follow the Talmud what I think you mean is that less than 30% of Jews are religiously educated enough,. or have the linguistic education, to be able to cite chapter and verse of the Talmud (i.e. access the text to read it). Since it is written in archaic forms of Hebrew and Aramaic.

But anyone who follows the traditions of Judaism (other than Karaites - a tiny but fascinating minority) by default follows at least SOME of the Talmud, since all the traditions other than minhagim (local customs) are 100% explained in the Talmud/Mishna, which itself is based on primary scripture (tanakh).

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72230 Apr 22, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

years ago on Allah thread. Stefano probably remembers this, as well as Buford and any of the other regulars.

We have caught you making stuff up plenty of times. Why does this bother you

NOW?
I am telling you again - I have never ever said that Jesus died in Spain or that he is buried in Spain.

I said that Mary Magdalene (wife of Jesus) and his son emigrated to Spain and that the descendants of Jesus still live in Spain and that Jesus' grave is in Kashmir.

I also said that in the near future I would be going to Spain to collect the authentic Bible.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72231 Apr 22, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Please post a link to the "millenial old" Hebrew inscriptions.
Contact Dr Holger Kirsten or the Archeological Survey of India for the evidence.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72232 Apr 22, 2014
THE JEWS ARE FROM KASHMIR:

The acclaimed religious historian Dr Holger Kersten has meticulously gathered literary, linguistic, archaeological, geographical and cultural evidence which he claims is sufficient to trace their native ancestry and homeland to “Kashmir” or “Kashir” from which has originated the Hebrew word “Kasher” and its English equivalent “Kosher” which means the “approvable” especially with respect to “diet” and all of these are said to be variants of the Sanskrit “Kashyap-Mar” after the Vedic Seer of the same name who is said to have settled in the Kashmir region.

In Genesis 12:1 Abraham is told by G-d ,“Get thee out of thy country and from thy kindred and from thy father’s house unto a land I will shew thee”.

Other Biblical verses such as Genesis 29 recount how Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, journeyed to his maternal uncle Laban’s home in the land of the “sons of the east” and in the Book of Joshua (24:2,3), the Jewish Patriarchs are said to have hailed from the east.

But where was the original home of Abraham’s forefathers?

Though this is usually taken to be Haran or Eski-Charan in modern Turkey, a place called Haran that lies north of Srinagar, where the remains of ancient walls dating back to long before the Christian era have been discovered, could also be the same place referred to.

Dr George Moore, in “The Lost Tribes”, has discovered many Hebrew inscriptions in India and a few in Hebrew and Aramaic were excavated in the Pakistan part of Kashmir.

Of more direct interest is the fact over 300 names of towns, geographical features, regions, estates, tribes, clans, families and individuals in the Tanach can be linguistically or phonetically matched with those in Kashmir.

Besides, all the five landmarks associated with Moses’ burial site that find mention in Deuteronomy 34:1 to 7 - the Plains of Moab (Mowu), Mount Nebo in the Abarim mountains( Baal Nebu or Niltoop in the Ablu mountain range), Pisgah (now Pishnag), Beth Peor (Behat Poor, Behat or Bandipur) and Heshbon (Hasba or Hasbal)- are stated, with exactly the same linguistic and geographical or scenic descriptions, to be found in one distinct location in Kashmir. Places said to be the grave of Moses that have been reverently tended by the “wali rishis” for thousands of years,“Muqam-i-Musa”( the “Place of Moses”),“Sang-i- Musa”(“Stone of Moses”),“Kohna-i-Musa”(“Corner stone of Moses”) and “Ayat-i-Maula” or “Aitmul”(“Sign of God”) are all found in the same vicinity and in other parts of Kashmir.

The work of more than 30 authors commissioned by The Identification Society of London collectively concluded that the Jews are of Kashmiri descent.

It would be worthwhile if researchers could further investigate the “Kashmiri background” of the Jews from a genetic and archaeological perspective to shed further light on the subject.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72233 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Contact Dr Holger Kirsten or the Archeological Survey of India for the evidence.
lame

put some effort into it

BTW it is well known that after the two exiles, Jews ended up throughout the spice road, establishing trading outposts among their fellow Jewish traveling merchants. Thats old news. But the notion that a Jesus just happened to pop up conveniently in Kashmir to learn Yoga and then to be buried is obviously preposterous....

From wiki on Holgen Kursten, who by the way, is NOT even an Archaeologist - he is an amateur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Kersten

".....None of Kersten's works have found any support in mainstream scholarship — either Biblical or Indologist. The noted German scholar of New Testament Apocrypha Wilhelm Schneemelcher, in a revision of his standard work prior to his death in 2003, and in unusually strong language for the scholarly community states that Kersten's work is based on "fantasy, untruth and ignorance (above all in the linguistic area)" and "has nothing to do with historical research."[17]

Gerald O'Collins and Daniel Kendall view that "Kersten's discredited book" is simply the repackaging of Notovich and Ahmad's material for consumption by the general public.[18]..."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72234 Apr 22, 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Kersten

The book achieved great popularity in Germany and overseas, though competed with the better-known Siegfried Obermeier's book in Germany. The Indologist Günter Grönbold included a highly critical debunking of Obermeier and Kersten's interpretations of Buddhist sources among various expositions of Jesus in India theories in Jesus In Indien – Das Ende einer Legende (Jesus in India, the end of a Legend, 1985).[7] Wilhelm Schneemelcher in introducing the subject of New Testament Apocrypha (1991) uses Kersten by way of illustration of the development of legendary Gospel traditions and notes how Kersten "attempted to work up Notovitch and Ahmadiyya legends with many other alleged witnesses into a complete picture."[8]

McGetchin notes that once his story had been re-examined by historians, Notovitch confessed to having fabricated the evidence.[9]
Eric

Schaumburg, IL

#72235 Apr 22, 2014
Ok, someone explain how this is a Jewish grave as opposed to another grave. http://www.epicurus.net/images/grave.GIF Jewish graves are to return the body to the earth as quickly as possible. Explain how this crypt does that.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72236 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
THE JEWS ARE FROM KASHMIR:
The acclaimed religious historian Dr Holger Kersten .....
No need to go any further.....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72237 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Shut up, lying idiot.
When did I say that Jesus was buried in Spain?
Like you fake PhD, stop playing cunning games here.
Go and check yourself and don't be surprised.
and how is that meditation room doing these days?

and how about the 2012/2013.2014 doomsday dates?

No one enjoys a whiny liar

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#72238 Apr 22, 2014
I am going to La Patisserie - the cake shop of the Taj. Bye.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72239 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
THE JEWS ARE FROM KASHMIR:
The acclaimed religious historian Dr Holger Kersten ....
and not to beat a dead horse (but I gleefully will...)

Apparently Kersten doesnt have a PhD either (or at least there is no reference to any PhD of the online citations)

You are a serial exaggerator as well...(In other news,,,,,dog bites man)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72240 Apr 22, 2014
Eric wrote:
Ok, someone explain how this is a Jewish grave as opposed to another grave. http://www.epicurus.net/images/grave.GIF Jewish graves are to return the body to the earth as quickly as possible. Explain how this crypt does that.
That goes right up there with knowing that it must be Jesus's grave because it has a cross.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72241 Apr 22, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Rick Moss put it perfectly. It may or may not be a fantasy or myth, but it is OUR fantasy or myth. We are not imposing it on others. We are not looking to others to affirm it.
(In comparison to the Indian who is appropriating the Christian story line to support his cultural beliefs).
And in contrast, are you saying that your own "fantasy or myths" do NOT support or have anything do with your own culture, beliefs or practices?

I guess I'm still not seeing the difference in the way that you are.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72242 Apr 22, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Judaism is a communal religion - therefore there are organized movements. Most localities in the US have their own Board of Rabbis which more or less define the acceptable standards by default. They dont have to accept each other - but they get along enough to function together to set communal standards for things such as Kosher certification, social work, educational opportunities, and burial. Usually the movements represented include the Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist.
Obviously there are gazillians of unaffiliated Jews as well - but at the end, it is a tribal religion therefore participation in a synagogues from one of those movements is really necessary to practice of the religion.
Within and between those movements there is a great diversity of "belief" regarding the status and authenticity of scripture. Basically as long as you dont follow Jesus, and as long as you are not a practicing polytheist, you can probably find a niche somewhere.
Ok. so you:

1. Don't have to believe in god.
2. Don't have to believe any of the books.

All you have to do is:

1. Not believe in JC.
2. Not be a polytheist.

And you can show up Saturdays and call yourself a Jew?

Got it!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72243 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
You must visit Bhutan - it's stunningly beautiful and largely untouched by the ravages of industrialization and cradled in the lap of the majestic Himalayas amidst dense forests and it's so peaceful.
If feels as though you're trying to seduce me.

But then again, you did say all expenses are on you.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72244 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Shut up, lying idiot.....
Now, now.

What would your god say to this sort of treatment of your fellow man?

Recall The Golden Rule my young nephew.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72245 Apr 22, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Contact Dr Holger Kirsten or the Archeological Survey of India for the evidence.
No problem.

Guessing Frijoles already has him on speed dial.

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