Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72039 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70684 Apr 1, 2014
I have had this experience of hearing extremely subtle sounds under the influence of the yogic force. The experience of hearing subtle sounds, in my case, included hearing the "chatter" of tiny ants and flies. I could not understand what the "chatter" was all about but I knew instinctively that the ants and flies were communicating among their own kind.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70685 Apr 1, 2014
Need to rest.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70686 Apr 1, 2014
MEDITATION

Meditation is the exclusive holding of an object or an idea in the mental force field while concentrating on a particular force center in the nervous system with the aim of knowing the essence of the object/idea by becoming one in consciousness with its force field.

Each force center in the nervous system responds to a specific mantra.

Meditation gives one direct knowledge about the object whose nature is sought to be known in all its details.

No room for shallow mathematical models and crude inferences in the meditative method.

Meditation unites one in consciousness with the force field of the object/idea and in this nondual experience one directly knows everything that is there to be known about the object/idea by becoming the object/idea through union of consciousness of the subject-object variety when all spatio-temporal barriers between the two break down.

Bye.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#70687 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
RABBEE,
How are you?
I hope everything is well with you.
Tell me, is it possible to hear the subtlest of sounds when the auditory nerve opens up under the pressure of the dynamic descent of the higher consciousness-force?
rabbee: well how would i know, when nobody is all that subtle here. the fact is, none of you are making a sound, on this message thread and i can still refuse to hear you. but i can hear you now, without your lips moving.

when you see the liberal dottie lama, throw him a curve baal. ask him if he knows, what story he is in here from The G-D of Only The Torah again? in the story from THEM, that does not change for this world refusing to be here in IT again.

but as for how am i doing, well a lot better than this whole deluded world not here in This Story from G-D again. and your all not making me happy, that your all going to be the cause of me having to do this all again next time in the same story from G-D.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#70688 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
MEDITATION
Meditation is the exclusive holding of an object or an idea in the mental force field while concentrating on a particular force center in the nervous system with the aim of knowing the essence of the object/idea by becoming one in consciousness with its force field.
Each force center in the nervous system responds to a specific mantra.
Meditation gives one direct knowledge about the object whose nature is sought to be known in all its details.
No room for shallow mathematical models and crude inferences in the meditative method.
Meditation unites one in consciousness with the force field of the object/idea and in this nondual experience one directly knows everything that is there to be known about the object/idea by becoming the object/idea through union of consciousness of the subject-object variety when all spatio-temporal barriers between the two break down.
Bye.
rabbee: have you thought of trying, medication instead? it is now legal here in Colorado, now you do know. and it is all written, in stoned now.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#70689 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
I have had this experience of hearing extremely subtle sounds under the influence of the yogic force. The experience of hearing subtle sounds, in my case, included hearing the "chatter" of tiny ants and flies. I could not understand what the "chatter" was all about but I knew instinctively that the ants and flies were communicating among their own kind.
rabbee: sounds like you are communicating, with your own kind now.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70690 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say atheist you mean agnostic-atheist? Don't you know that agnostic atheism is part of agnosticism and not of atheism as you and CoR thought?
This is why I said labels can be misleading when two parties are not on the same page.

Agnosticism is not a belief system. It is a statement of knowledge. As is Gnosticism. It is meant to be used as a modifier to atheism, not as a replacement.

In the US, we often abbreviate agnostic atheist as simply atheist since a vast majority of atheists are, in fact, agnostic atheists (as opposed to gnostic atheists). Very few people are foolish enough to claim to be gnostic atheists.

From wiki...

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70691 Apr 1, 2014
Strong Agnostic: The view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities, and the nature of ultimate reality is (and always will be) unknowable

Weak Agnostic: The view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable

----

Atheist: Does not believe in a deity or deities

Theist: Believes in a deity or deities

----

The first two definitions of agnosticism can be combined with the latter two definitions of atheism to form a total of four combinations:

Strong Agnostic Atheist or Weak Agnostic Atheist (what we commonly refer to simply as an atheist)

Strong Agnostic Theist, Weak Agnostic Theist (what we commonly refer to simply as a theist)
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70692 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats interesting.
Because that is not how most Jews would approach it. We are trained to struggle, to wrestle, to question, to argue, and in the case of pure faith - view it as an action (and not a belief) and therefore as a practice in its own right.
I don't think we were ever taught to struggle with our faith but I know many Catholics (lay folks/priests/Jesuits/nuns) do struggle and struggle mightily. The church don't always make it easy to love her.

Some gifts come with strings attached. Believing is indeed active and dynamic, even fluid. Some days better than others, like any other relationship I imagine.

I have an uncle (devout Catholic, Georgetown Law grad) who is regularly driven to distraction by the church but refuses to be "driven out of his own religion." (He's the one who also refuses to acknowledge my situation....."You were born Catholic and you will always be Catholic" he says, lovingly of course..)
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70693 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you think that the absence of belief may be due to more than one reason?.
I think it could be but not for most atheists.

I can't point to a study but would guess most atheists won't tell you they were raped by a priest and that turned them atheist.

I think most would say they have no evidence for the existence of god so they choose not to believe. Same goes for the Easter bunny. Santa Claus etc

And don't forget the pink elephants. I'm atheist on them too, for the record.

So maybe I can babysit Frijoles kid(s) one day.$10 cash/ hour
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I can apply your logic here, to which I disagree with it. It's one way. Simply put it, faith.
.

That's a word that means believing in something without any evidence.

Otherwise faith would not be needed to believe in it.

Correct?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70694 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Some notable quotes on faith:
"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus
"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God,'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams
"Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence." -- Anonymous
"The Way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins
Good stuff. These speak to me.

My favorite is the first one:

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus

Brilliant!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70695 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think we were ever taught to struggle with our faith but I know many Catholics (lay folks/priests/Jesuits/nuns) do struggle and struggle mightily. The church don't always make it easy to love her.
Some gifts come with strings attached. Believing is indeed active and dynamic, even fluid. Some days better than others, like any other relationship I imagine.
I have an uncle (devout Catholic, Georgetown Law grad) who is regularly driven to distraction by the church but refuses to be "driven out of his own religion." (He's the one who also refuses to acknowledge my situation....."You were born Catholic and you will always be Catholic" he says, lovingly of course..)
Another negative thing about faith (at least in regards to Xtianity), is that if you don't have it, then you must be doing something wrong. I.e. it's your fault. You have a cold heart, you're angry at god, you're angry at the church, you had a bad experience, you're being selfish, yada..yada..yada... It's unfathomable to this people that someone can approach the problem rationally and with introspection and come to a conclusion different than them.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70696 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
...So maybe I can babysit Frijoles kid(s) one day.$10 cash/ hour
Are you forgetting about the whole "atheists eat babies" meme? Pink elephant believing nannies is one thing, but baby eating atheists?
Abolish The Fed

Philadelphia, PA

#70697 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you were a sort of a libertarian? You don't believe in separation of church and state?
You may have had a bad experience with atheists. You'll find believers do a lot more preaching than nonbelievers.
This bad experience may make you turn away from atheism.
I don't bring it up much as the believers may take a torch to my house.
More so I don't believe in aggression, so who is the aggressor in the separation issue?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70698 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a difference between seeing God in everything, and having God talk to you. One is less theistic than the other. I admit you might not have caught the distinction since you are not familiar with the nuances of Hasidic vs normative Jewish theology. In my circles, the former is still within the realm of normal.
I could have sworn though you made fun of fundies who saw Jesus on their toast, but I could easily be wrong about that.

But I can understand seeing the wonder and grace of life everywhere, the thrill of being alive in such a beautiful world, smelling the roses and so on.

Some may call the seeing god. May or may not be the same thing. Obviously can't say for sure.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
But bottom line, I would expect a nanny to be able to perform her day to day nanny duties without having to consult with God. I would define that as normal. What she(he) does during formal worship is not my business.
Absolutely.

But having limited to data to go on, as in most employment interview situations, was just probing what flags might be cause for alarm, mental stability-wise.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I think there are 2 issues here. What I think of as normal. And whether what I may feel is normal still may appear as within the realm of pink elephant to you.
Now you're at the crux of the issue of what I was attempting (admittedly clumsily) to determine: where is that line, for you vs me?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70699 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say atheist you mean agnostic-atheist? Don't you know that agnostic atheism is part of agnosticism and not of atheism as you and CoR thought?
By the way you gave the defitition of weak agnosticm, rather than agnostic atheist..
It's like Steve Martin used to say, "Those French have a different word for everything!"

I only recently learned this newer nomenclature. People use different words but as long as we know what we're talking about, more or less.

I don't state there is no god, because I don't know that. I only state that I myself do not believe in god. The belief switch is turned off until further information is received.


<quoted text>
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup. On a second thought I retire my affermationn of agnosticism being a conclusion .
Excellent!

<quoted text>
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Never understood the mentality of a believer
.
Your or me? Or you and me?

How do you describe yourself, if you do at all, or care to?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70700 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Another negative thing about faith (at least in regards to Xtianity), is that if you don't have it, then you must be doing something wrong. I.e. it's your fault. You have a cold heart, you're angry at god, you're angry at the church, you had a bad experience, you're being selfish, yada..yada..yada... It's unfathomable to this people that someone can approach the problem rationally and with introspection and come to a conclusion different than them.
A few years back my older born-again brother made me promise to try "and open myself" up to what he calls his own gift. I even agreed to watch a few hours of a tv preacher that he likes.(I wanted to kill myself....but I did it...)

I think I really tried. Really don't know what else I could have done.

But it's true, you can easily start to wonder if you have some parts missing why you can't have this thing they have.

Unfortunately he won't give it up so it affects things negatively. Not just me, he says we're all going to hell.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70701 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you forgetting about the whole "atheists eat babies" meme? Pink elephant believing nannies is one thing, but baby eating atheists?
To me they all taste like chicken.

Very young, very tender chicken!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70702 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
More so I don't believe in aggression, so who is the aggressor in the separation issue?
Make sure you don't practice dissent.

It's incompatible with democracy and patriotism.

Answer: The ones who are FOR separation. As stated in the Constitution.

ps..I think you might be a troll. What say you?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70703 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Another negative thing about faith (at least in regards to Xtianity), is that if you don't have it, then you must be doing something wrong. I.e. it's your fault. You have a cold heart, you're angry at god, you're angry at the church, you had a bad experience, you're being selfish, yada..yada..yada... It's unfathomable to this people that someone can approach the problem rationally and with introspection and come to a conclusion different than them.
Maimonedes, famous Jewish commentator and philosopher, argued his way INTO the problem at hand, solely using reason.

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