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former res

Cheshire, CT

#70657 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
If she is telling me she sees a pink elephant, then she is NOT acting normally. So I would ding her on basis of her behavior. If she told me that God talks to her and tells her what to to do, I would not hire her (I might think that personally that this is an interesting lifestyle, but not for my kids). If she said she sees God in everything she does, then I might hire her (but keep an eye on her). That's relatively normal.
I am not sure where you are coming from. But its also a question of what type of values one wants to expose to their children. I dont value the pink elephant religion. I might value other forms of religion though. I have nothing against Christianity, or Christian nannys, provided it is kept within acceptable bounds.
Who says we're talking about Christians? Many Jews believe in god too.(Note I'm not saying how many...)

So you won't answer my pink elephant question without changing it to her acting abnormal.....moving right along.....

So it's ok if god talks to your future nanny but not if he gives her advice or guidance?

Though I would think many people (of those who pray) pray for strength/guidance etc...

If she see god on her toast, that's evidently ok too. Ok.

My questions had to do more with mental health/stability than with the theology itself.

Just don't ask where we're going with this....not sure.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70658 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't found a trace of nondualism - complete union via trance of the object with the subject - in Hasidism and Devekut.
If the practice found in Hasidism and Devekut culminates in the experience of nondualism, then the experiencer (sage) should become one with G-d in that state of the deepest trance.
Does Hasidism and Devekut say that the nondual experience results in perfect union in consciousness with HaShem after which the sage can stand up and declare, "I am HaShem"? No!
To declare, "I am HaShem" is a blasphemy in any variant of Judaism.
So, Judaism, in any of its variants, is stuck on the lowly level of dualism.
LOL.
There are no Devekut Policemen that I know of, who might say either way.

So I dont where you get any of this.

To say "I am hashem" in ordinary consciousness would be theologically fraught - but that is normal consciousness.

I am not sure what you mean as blasphemy. Thats an English term. You would have to connect it to a negative mitzvot. maybe chillul hashem. But probably not.

A while ago FR called you an intellectual light weight. So far I have yet to see anything from your side that proves otherwise. Your critique is really juvenile.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70659 Apr 1, 2014
Hasidism that teaches the immanence of G-d in the universe does not ever say that the awakened human consciousness can become equal to the consciousness of G-d via the subject-object union. Hasidism does not teach that a human being can declare, "I am G-d". So, Hasidism is not nondualism.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70660 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Fatih? Special Catholic war cry?
I've heard many times that faith is "a gift." "The gift of faith" and so on.

I feel so ripped off! I never got mine..

:))

April Fools!

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70661 Apr 1, 2014
CONCLUSION:

Neither Hasidism nor Devekut has anything to do with nondualism. In nondualism, the human being can stand up and declare, "I am G-d" on experiencing the nondual consciousness in which the divide between the subject and the object breaks down. Hasidism and Devekut are ignorant strains of dualism which is an irrational doctrine that seeks to separate cause from its own effects and gives rise to creationist beliefs and tribalism. LOL.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70662 Apr 1, 2014
GIST OF NONDUALISM

From the nondual source, we manifest as holons and the individual holon on awakening to its full potential can rise back to its sublime nondual status and become one with its source.

TAT Tvam Asi - THAT am I.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70663 Apr 1, 2014
The Kabbalah that originated in ancient Chaldea borrowed its major ideas and main practices from the Tantra especially the Kashmiri variant of Tantra which is mostly occult-based.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70664 Apr 1, 2014
TANTRA, in its conceptualization and meditative practices, leads, via the trance state, to the plane of the Shiva Consciousness. The mystic during trance merges in consciousness with the impersonal Shiva Consciousness-Force and becomes one with it and as result of the nondual union with the Shiva cries out, "Soham" - "I am the Shiva". The plane of the Shiva Consciousness-Force is not a very high plane of cosmic consciousness.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70665 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard many times that faith is "a gift." "The gift of faith" and so on.
I feel so ripped off! I never got mine..
:))
April Fools!
Thats interesting.

Because that is not how most Jews would approach it. We are trained to struggle, to wrestle, to question, to argue, and in the case of pure faith - view it as an action (and not a belief) and therefore as a practice in its own right.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70666 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Disagree. Simply an absence of belief.
Don't you think that the absence of belief may be due to more than one reason?
former res wrote:
<quoted text>More like many ways to become a believer.
I can apply your logic here, to which I disagree with it. It's one way. Simply put it, faith.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70667 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard many times that faith is "a gift." "The gift of faith" and so on.
I feel so ripped off! I never got mine..
:))
April Fools!
Some notable quotes on faith:

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus

"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God,'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams

"Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence." -- Anonymous

"The Way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." -- Benjamin Franklin

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70668 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't found a trace of nondualism - complete union via trance of the object with the subject - in Hasidism and Devekut.
If the practice found in Hasidism and Devekut culminates in the experience of nondualism, then the experiencer (sage) should become one with G-d in that state of the deepest trance.
Does Hasidism and Devekut say that the nondual experience results in perfect union in consciousness with HaShem after which the sage can stand up and declare, "I am HaShem"? No!
To declare, "I am HaShem" is a blasphemy in any variant of Judaism.
So, Judaism, in any of its variants, is stuck on the lowly level of dualism.
LOL.
If you go deeper in to the literature, the answer would be yes.- one could become one with God

there is a famous debate about this - about whether deveket is union or just attachment

I dont know if you could get that off of google, you would have to get access to actual texts

the point is you are wrong

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70669 Apr 1, 2014
The negative side of tantra is very dangerous and can maim, turn insane, blind, paralyze, mind control or kill a person on whom it is practiced. There exist certain practitioners of the negative aspect of tantra who dabble with these dangerous powers much to the misfortune of the many innocent persons on whom they direct their occult energies. Intel agencies like the CIA make certain use of the techniques deriving from the adverse aspect of the tantra to create mind-control slaves of the MK-Ultra kind. Fritz Springmeir, Henry Makow, Phil Schneider, Aleister Crowley and others have revealed many of the details. Intel agencies also employ experts in remote viewing.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70670 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Who says we're talking about Christians? Many Jews believe in god too.(Note I'm not saying how many...)
So you won't answer my pink elephant question without changing it to her acting abnormal.....moving right along.....
So it's ok if god talks to your future nanny but not if he gives her advice or guidance?
Though I would think many people (of those who pray) pray for strength/guidance etc...
If she see god on her toast, that's evidently ok too. Ok.
My questions had to do more with mental health/stability than with the theology itself.
Just don't ask where we're going with this....not sure.
There is a difference between seeing God in everything, and having God talk to you. One is less theistic than the other. I admit you might not have caught the distinction since you are not familiar with the nuances of Hasidic vs normative Jewish theology. In my circles, the former is still within the realm of normal.

But bottom line, I would expect a nanny to be able to perform her day to day nanny duties without having to consult with God. I would define that as normal. What she(he) does during formal worship is not my business.

I think there are 2 issues here. What I think of as normal. And whether what I may feel is normal still may appear as within the realm of pink elephant to you.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70671 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Some notable quotes on faith:
"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus
"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God,'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams
"Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence." -- Anonymous
"The Way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins
The problem with that perspective is that is ASSUMES that the only use of faith is to obstruct reason. I disagree.

It can be used to obstruct reason, of course. But it also has a role in removing a cognitive block to immediate experience. Thats the part that you and I keep arguing about, but the point is that one does not always need to be a linear trajectory of thought forms at all times. Certainly not when one is experiencing art. Or worship. etc etc

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70672 Apr 1, 2014
I have an invitation to travel with a group of friends to meet the DALAI LAMA in Dharamshala in Mcleodganj in Himachal Pradesh. The place is teeming with Tibetans, Europeans, Israelis, Indians and Chinese intel chaps. I am not going as the Dalai Lama has a dark character that's hidden behind his smiling face. He's some sort of an occultist of the negative school of Tantra. Besides, these days, the spontaneous yogic experiences have recommenced in quite a big way and so it would not be advisable for me to go on the trip.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70673 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
CONCLUSION:
Neither Hasidism nor Devekut has anything to do with nondualism. In nondualism, the human being can stand up and declare, "I am G-d" on experiencing the nondual consciousness in which the divide between the subject and the object breaks down. Hasidism and Devekut are ignorant strains of dualism which is an irrational doctrine that seeks to separate cause from its own effects and gives rise to creationist beliefs and tribalism. LOL.
You know, just because you state something 5 times doesnt make it correct. Ask Hughbe.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70674 Apr 1, 2014
I will not be flying down to AUROVILLE in Peninsular India to meet Aviram Rozin and others there because the current crop of spontaneous yogic experiences are too deep and too novel thus making me stay put at home. In this indrawn condition when wave upon wave of the higher consciousness-force keeps descending into my body from above the head giving me some of the most unique yogic experiences that I have ever experienced till date, it would be dangerous to venture out of home. For the past few hours, the dynamic descent of the higher consciousness-force has ceased. Let me see when it resumes.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70675 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
I have an invitation to travel with a group of friends to meet the DALAI LAMA in Dharamshala in Mcleodganj in Himachal Pradesh. The place is teeming with Tibetans, Europeans, Israelis, Indians and Chinese intel chaps. I am not going as the Dalai Lama has a dark character that's hidden behind his smiling face. He's some sort of an occultist of the negative school of Tantra. Besides, these days, the spontaneous yogic experiences have recommenced in quite a big way and so it would not be advisable for me to go on the trip.
You must be the only (non Chinese) person alive who thinks the Dali Lama is evil

Who needs Rorsach?

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70676 Apr 1, 2014
Infinity - Infinity = Infinity.

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