Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Here again in The Torah”

Since: Nov 13

Denver Colorado 80218

#70604 Mar 31, 2014
you all seem pretty much convinced and determined, to do the devils world for him. with all of your denial of being here in Only The Torah again from HaShem G-D.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70605 Apr 1, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the concepts are different.
"Ayn od milvado" means "there's no one else besides HaShem".
It's one thing to say "ayn od milvado" (there's no one else besides HaShem) and it's a totally different thing to say "I am HaShem".
Ayn od milvado ((there's no one else besides HaShem) is a dualistic statement which puts HaShem on the loftiest pedestal and worships him as G-d Almighty.
To say "I am HaShem" is a nondual experience in consciousness which is not part of Judaism and would be considered a blasphemy.
Thats not how it is interpreted in my tradition.

Sorry, you are wrong again.

:)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70606 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>

You can call me whatever you want, atheists are like scorn women.
I.
No evidence to back up that claim.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70607 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
OTOH if you're interviewing a potential nanny/babysitter for your baby, and she says "Hey look at the pink elephant over there!" You might want to put her at the bottom of the list.
How about the co-worker who comes in everyday and tells your about all the cool stuff god said to him last night? Any better? Could he babysit for you?
If it affects their behavior, yes. If it doesnt, no.

Have no problem with people who keep their beliefs to themselves.

The 2 examples above do not fall into that category.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70608 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I have niece who converted to Judaism (her new husband's faith) and they ended up getting divorced. Oh well, guess no good deed goes unpunished.!
I would NEVER encourage someone to "convert" to Judaism as a "good deed". Nor would any Rabbi, I would hope. "Conversion" is a form of tribal initiation, its not for brownie points. Historically, Jews discourage conversion for that reason. Its not (just) entry into a faith, its entry into a people.
former res wrote:
<quoted text>Guess I understand just my nature to wonder if there might not be another faith/religion/culture that may be MORE awe-inspiring or fit me better! The sky's the limit and all that..
Like a bigger ocean, bluer sky, taller grass. I know you can relate
Never been much of a joiner, except to my wife of 26 years (in May)!
My view (and my experience) is that what one may feel lacking is a psychological lack, not a religious lack. Once you find what you are looking for, you can then probably find it in your own culture/religion, in many (not all) cases. Certainly (if you are from) in Judaism, which has a huge breadth and depth of perspectives and ideological movements.

I learned a lot about other religions when I was younger. And I realized that what I liked about the other religions were also found in my own, if I cared to look deeper, and grapple with the Hebrew.

The mistake a lot of people have is thinking their knowledge of their born religion, a la Sunday School, is IT. Its not. Its the perspective of a bored kid or bored teen, being carried along as baggage as an adult. When you approach the subject with mature intellectual curiosity, there (potentially) is a lot more to be learned about what the religion is.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70609 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
From a Xtian perspective, faith is core. Without it, there is no reason to stay unless you value the social aspect of it. But that need can be filled multiple other ways in far more fulfilling ways. Nothing irrational about it.
Understand. As we have discussed before, there are major differences between Christianity and Judaism - to the point that they really are not even comparable as systems. The role of belief vs practice, for one. I suspect, with Judaism embrace of multiple forms of thought, including agnosticism, that there are more practicing Jews that are atheists or agnostics, then Christians of the same. Or not?

But that said, it you felt THEOLOGICALLY you were getting a return on your investment, perhaps you would of stayed with your Church. Obviously you felt not. So you bolted. Doesnt mean you were necessarily having a negative experience (scorned woman!), maybe it was more a bland experience, but obviously you were experiencing something different than a devout person.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70610 Apr 1, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
It just occurred to me that I didn't give ATF enough credit. He might actually be one of the charlatans who peddle this pseudo-scientific [email protected] for profit, in which case, he has a vested interested in willful ignorance.
Amway marketing of nutritional supplements

I agree with your former comment that the Gluten thing is way overblown. Total bandwagon effect.

Also, I find it interesting that society is swinging back towards fat, in milk. Makes sense to me.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70611 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I (not surprisingly) agree.
If the thing one happened to be in awe of at the time were say - some great mathematical prowess; Einstein's theories; Stephen Hawkings; and so on - you'd certainly need your brain engaged as well as your emotions.
Of course your emotions are really just thoughts too so...whatever.
Did we decide where we were going with this?
:))
You engage your brain THEN you feel awe. Its sequential. Prayer works the same way.

But that is a side story. Where I was going, or went, was more of a focus of how the generation of thoughts distracts from the feeling aspect. Thats a bit different since unlike the above process, which is in the back of your consciousness, random thinking is in the forefront. What tends to happen is that you identify with your thoughts rather than with the experience (i.e become lost in your thoughts).

The antidote to that is the practice of "mindfullness", where you accept your thoughts but dont get carried away with them.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/mindful...

powerful stuff, if you have a good teacher and keep up the practice
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70612 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
That statement you are trying to infer that straight sex is accountable for the rest? I don't think so popeye, prove your claim. Obviously drug use is a factor but gay sex is far more risky than straight sex.
More so if you play catcher than pitcher. Same with straight sex (male vs female).

And everyone should practice "safer sex" regardless of gender/orientation. I though you were health-minded.

But for over 20 years HIV has not been a "gay disease." So one shouldn't associate the two..

My point is the only way to keep from swapping body fluids is to NOT have sex. Period.

That's the healthiest course for a worried, nervous fellow like you.
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
You can call me whatever you want, atheists are like scorn women.
What does that even mean?

Your ridiculous statement seems to imply that everyone is born believing and only turns against religion after some sort of bad experience.

The act of believing is in itself an action and a decision.

So don't you think it is the act to believe that is the turning point? That one needs a good reason to believe in the first place. Based on zero evidence I remind you.

As faith is belief without evidence.

I'll give you another chance to make sense.
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think that humans know all there is to know about life existence in this world, you are just a close minded ignorant dope.
On the contrary.

As an agnostic atheist I acknowledge the unknown.

I am more open minded than any believer who claims to know that which is unknown.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70613 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
If it affects their behavior, yes. If it doesnt, no.
Have no problem with people who keep their beliefs to themselves
The 2 examples above do not fall into that category.
If I didn't know better I'd say you were missing the point on purpose.

In my example, their words (and resume) were petty much all you had to go on.

You interview 3 potential nanny's but only one sees a pink elephant (that you don't see).

She might still get the job if she ACTS normal? Seriously. Nice try.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70614 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I would NEVER encourage someone to "convert" to Judaism as a "good deed". Nor would any Rabbi, I would hope. "Conversion" is a form of tribal initiation, its not for brownie points. Historically, Jews discourage conversion for that reason. Its not (just) entry into a faith, its entry into a people.
The 'good deed' were my words, not hers - just an expression.

She's a Harvard grad and I'm sure had all the appropriate counseling and guidance. Sure she knew what she was doing. We never discussed exactly why she did it. So no insight there. But just know she's a smart chick. And happily married now with kids.

The guy was a dxck anyway. Bygones.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70615 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You engage your brain THEN you feel awe. Its sequential. Prayer works the same way.
But that is a side story. Where I was going, or went, was more of a focus of how the generation of thoughts distracts from the feeling aspect. Thats a bit different since unlike the above process, which is in the back of your consciousness, random thinking is in the forefront. What tends to happen is that you identify with your thoughts rather than with the experience (i.e become lost in your thoughts).
The antidote to that is the practice of "mindfullness", where you accept your thoughts but dont get carried away with them.
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/mindful...
powerful stuff, if you have a good teacher and keep up the practice
What you call prayer I might call meditation.

What do you see as the difference if any?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70616 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
But for over 20 years HIV has not been a "gay disease." So one shouldn't associate the two..
My point is the only way to keep from swapping body fluids is to NOT have sex
Very catholic point.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70617 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
No evidence to back up that claim.
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70618 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Amway marketing of nutritional supplements
I agree with your former comment that the Gluten thing is way overblown. Total bandwagon effect.
Also, I find it interesting that society is swinging back towards fat, in milk. Makes sense to me.
There is always a band wagon effect on ideas, but good ideas have the momentum to change markets, and the ever growing gluten free isles at the grocery store are evident of the free market at work.
On the contrary of health the government protection racquet known as the FDA has dropped the ball once again protecting the public against the rubber ykga mat chemicals used in the subway bread.
Luckily the free market has changed subways mind, no thanks to the bought and paid for FDA.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70619 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
I don't believe in god and have had not any bad religious experiences within the church or any other temples.

You are generalizing too much. I know of people who turn into atheism after being sexually abused by a priest for a very long time and saw no support from the Church. But that is just a tiny part.

Personally, I think that sexual attack is not a good reason to turn to Atheism.

I think that a really good part of people turned into atheism after a process of rationalization over the so called holy texts.

Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheism.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70620 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
Yes and people who have had a bad experience eating peanuts tend to avoid them.

So maybe atheists are just allergic to religion.

Mystery solved.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70621 Apr 1, 2014
CORRECTION:

Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheist.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70622 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and people who have had a bad experience eating peanuts tend to avoid them.
So maybe atheists are just allergic to religion.
Mystery solved.
Yes but those with peanut allergies don't run around telling everyone how bad peanuts are and how unrealistic peanut eating is. And ask them to prove that peanuts taste great.
And lobby government to ban peanut eating on public property.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70623 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in god and have had not any bad religious experiences within the church or any other temples.
You are generalizing too much. I know of people who turn into atheism after being sexually abused by a priest for a very long time and saw no support from the Church. But that is just a tiny part.
Personally, I think that sexual attack is not a good reason to turn to Atheism.
I think that a really good part of people turned into atheism after a process of rationalization over the so called holy texts.
Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheism.
I think that to be intellectually honest, we should all start with the null hypothesis (atheism) and then make the decision from there.

This is where ATF's argument falls apart.

He thinks one needs a reason to stop believing rather than a reason to start.

Seems counterintuitive to me.

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