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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#70471 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
LDS Church response[edit]
. The danger is not when people laugh but when they take it seriously—if they leave a theater believing that Mormons really do live in some kind of a surreal world of self-deception and illusion",
I dont think its a theological issue, as much as an age issue. Missionaries tend to be young adults at that stage at their lives with limited experience and much naivety, often from sheltered backgrounds. Probably a significant amount of them grow up very quickly through mission, which is usually seen as a big adventure (rightfully so IMO).

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70472 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Fox News, absolutely!
Fox News motto (per Stephen Colbert): "We Report, But You Should Really Check With Someone Else".

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#70473 Mar 31, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Fox News motto (per Stephen Colbert): "We Report, But You Should Really Check With Someone Else".
LSM Motto

"We report and decide what we think you should know, But You Should Really Check With Someone Else if You Want to Know the Truth"
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70474 Mar 31, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont think its a theological issue, as much as an age issue. Missionaries tend to be young adults at that stage at their lives with limited experience and much naivety, often from sheltered backgrounds. Probably a significant amount of them grow up very quickly through mission, which is usually seen as a big adventure (rightfully so IMO).
Well, I do think if one is going to invest millions to put on a Broadway musical that pokes fun at a religion (that started in upstate New York 150 years ago)- one would do well to realize that audiences prefer to see young, pretty bodies dancing and singing for 2+ hours!

Seriously though, are you saying the play pokes funs more at young people in general than at Mormons?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70475 Mar 31, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
LSM Motto
"We report and decide what we think you should know, But You Should Really Check With Someone Else if You Want to Know the Truth"
Living Stream Ministry (LSM), originally named Stream Publishers when founded in 1965 by Witness Lee,[1] is a non-profit corporation currently based in Anaheim, California. LSM publishes the works of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, including the Recovery Version of the Bible. LSM has been a member of the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association since 2002 and of the Christian Booksellers Association since 1981.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70476 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I do think if one is going to invest millions to put on a Broadway musical that pokes fun at a religion (that started in upstate New York 150 years ago)- one would do well to realize that audiences prefer to see young, pretty bodies dancing and singing for 2+ hours!
Seriously though, are you saying the play pokes funs more at young people in general than at Mormons?
no, not at all. I dont think most people think this through. That play was intended to poks fun at Mormons in general. But in general that stereotype is probably mainly because of the youth factor.

The Mormons loose a huge percentage of believers a year due to the mission rite of passage.(source: dated a mormon long long time ago)
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70477 Mar 31, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
no, not at all. I dont think most people think this through. That play was intended to poks fun at Mormons in general. But in general that stereotype is probably mainly because of the youth factor.
The Mormons loose a huge percentage of believers a year due to the mission rite of passage.(source: dated a mormon long long time ago)
I don't know. The whole thing seems shakier than most. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan with a long criminal record. Everything was based on his own word as far as I can tell.

The Mormons are a very powerful, controlling, wealthy and secretive group.

They are listed as the 4th largest religion in the US, so they must be doing something right.
(I read that somewhere this weekend.)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70478 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. The whole thing seems shakier than most. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan with a long criminal record. Everything was based on his own word as far as I can tell.
The Mormons are a very powerful, controlling, wealthy and secretive group.
They are listed as the 4th largest religion in the US, so they must be doing something right.
(I read that somewhere this weekend.)
No question they are controlling. In fact, that is the opposite of naivety (which I am assuming is the stereotype the musical is making fun of?).

What they are doing right is that they wrestled a homeland, using violence, and continued to build up their institutions over time. Hyper-organized.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70479 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know. The whole thing seems shakier than most. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan with a long criminal record. Everything was based on his own word as far as I can tell.
The Mormons are a very powerful, controlling, wealthy and secretive group.
They are listed as the 4th largest religion in the US, so they must be doing something right.
(I read that somewhere this weekend.)
not as secretive as they would hope to be anymore

http://www.amazon.com/Unveiling-Grace-Story-M...
Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church

If I recollect, there was another big expose during the mid 90s as well - billed at the time as the "first" expose.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70480 Mar 31, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
not as secretive as they would hope to be anymore
http://www.amazon.com/Unveiling-Grace-Story-M...
Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church
If I recollect, there was another big expose during the mid 90s as well - billed at the time as the "first" expose.
I remember seeing the various exposes - 60 Minutes/Dateline-type shows - about them. You'd think you were dealing with KGB at times. Big money and power.

I don't believe every word I see or hear but after a while you have to wonder.

I think they would like to think the play was just mocking some stereotype but to me it was doing as good a job at making fun of the religion itself and many of their beliefs.

For example "The Garden of Eden is in Missouri." Now why that sounds any sillier than if it were wherever the bible said it was.....is a good question....but it does!

"Adam-ondi-Ahman (/æd&#601;m &#593;&#720;nda&#6 18; &#593;&#720;m&#601 ;n/, sometimes clipped to Diahman) is a historic site along the east bluffs above the Grand River located about five miles south of Jameson in Daviess County, Missouri. According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), it is the site where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden. They believe it will be a gathering spot for a meeting of the priesthood leadership, including prophets of all ages and other righteous people, prior to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70481 Mar 31, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
no, not at all. I dont think most people think this through. That play was intended to poks fun at Mormons in general. But in general that stereotype is probably mainly because of the youth factor.
The Mormons loose a huge percentage of believers a year due to the mission rite of passage.(source: dated a Mormon long long time ago)
What stereotypes are you referring to?

Their beliefs are all well documented. Their missions are ubiquitous and witnessed by many. What exactly are you referring to as a stereotype?

In their defense, however, their religion is no weirder than most other religions.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70482 Mar 31, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
not as secretive as they would hope to be anymore
http://www.amazon.com/Unveiling-Grace-Story-M...
Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church
If I recollect, there was another big expose during the mid 90s as well - billed at the time as the "first" expose.
The Internet and the ubiquitousness of information makes keeping secrets pretty difficult these days. Just ask the Scientologists; or the NSA.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70483 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember seeing the various exposes - 60 Minutes/Dateline-type shows - about them. You'd think you were dealing with KGB at times. Big money and power.
I don't believe every word I see or hear but after a while you have to wonder.
I think they would like to think the play was just mocking some stereotype but to me it was doing as good a job at making fun of the religion itself and many of their beliefs.
For example "The Garden of Eden is in Missouri." Now why that sounds any sillier than if it were wherever the bible said it was.....is a good question....but it does!
"Adam-ondi-Ahman (/æd&#601;m &#593;&#720;nda&#6 18; &#593;&#720;m&#601 ;n/, sometimes clipped to Diahman) is a historic site along the east bluffs above the Grand River located about five miles south of Jameson in Daviess County, Missouri. According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), it is the site where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden. They believe it will be a gathering spot for a meeting of the priesthood leadership, including prophets of all ages and other righteous people, prior to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman
Human Nature. Stories coming from ancient manuscripts create an illusion of authenticism and truth due to their longevity. It's the old Argument From Age (Wisdom of the Ancients) logical fallacy.

But really, stories of ancient religions (2000+ years old) are no sillier than Mormonism or any other modern religion. Take mainstream Xtianity, for instance. A child (through no fault of their own) is born with original sin. So God sent himself (Jesus) in human form to be sacrificed to himself in order to save mankind. So now, Xtians eat his body and drink his blood (real, not metaphor, according to Catholics), and all is good.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70484 Mar 31, 2014
Relation to Judaism

See also: Mormonism and Judaism

Although Mormons do not claim to be part of Judaism, Mormon theology claims to situate Mormonism within the context of Judaism to an extent that goes beyond what most other Christian denominations claim. The faith incorporates many Old Testament ideas into its theology, and the beliefs of Mormons sometimes parallel those of Judaism and certain elements of Jewish culture. In the earliest days of Mormonism, Joseph Smith taught that the Indigenous peoples of the Americas were members of some of the Lost Tribes of Israel. Later, he taught that Mormons were Israelites, and that they may learn of their tribal affiliation within the twelve Israelite tribes. Members of the LDS Church receive Patriarchal blessings which declare the recipient's lineage within one of the tribes of Israel. The lineage is either through true blood-line or adoption. The LDS Church teaches that if one is not a direct descendant of one of the twelve tribes, upon baptism he or she is adopted into one of the tribes. Patriarchal blessings also include personal information which is revealed through a patriarch by the power of the priesthood.

The Mormon affinity for Judaism is expressed by the many references to Judaism in the Mormon liturgy. For example, Smith named the largest Mormon settlement he founded Nauvoo, which means "to be beautiful" in Hebrew. Brigham Young named a tributary of the Great Salt Lake the "Jordan River". The LDS Church created a writing scheme called the Deseret Alphabet, which was based, in part, on Hebrew. The LDS Church has a Jerusalem Center in Israel, where students focus their study on Near Eastern history, culture, language, and the Bible.[69]....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism#Cosmol...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70485 Mar 31, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
What stereotypes are you referring to?
Their beliefs are all well documented. Their missions are ubiquitous and witnessed by many. What exactly are you referring to as a stereotype?
In their defense, however, their religion is no weirder than most other religions.
I am writing on the assumption that the stereotype (based on viewing the Youtube that FR posted) of a young naive missionary who believes every last drop.

Its been my experience, and assumption, that "buy in" is less for the older members. They are more in it for the sense of community and perhaps (within the elite) power.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70486 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember seeing the various exposes - 60 Minutes/Dateline-type shows - about them. You'd think you were dealing with KGB at times. Big money and power.
I don't believe every word I see or hear but after a while you have to wonder.
I think they would like to think the play was just mocking some stereotype but to me it was doing as good a job at making fun of the religion itself and many of their beliefs.
For example "The Garden of Eden is in Missouri." Now why that sounds any sillier than if it were wherever the bible said it was.....is a good question....but it does!
"Adam-ondi-Ahman (/æd&#601;m &#593;&#720;nda&#6 18; &#593;&#720;m&#601 ;n/, sometimes clipped to Diahman) is a historic site along the east bluffs above the Grand River located about five miles south of Jameson in Daviess County, Missouri. According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), it is the site where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden. They believe it will be a gathering spot for a meeting of the priesthood leadership, including prophets of all ages and other righteous people, prior to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman
Their beliefs are no sillier than any other religion.

What they are doing, regarding Eden, is geographically internalizing the myth. I am sure they are not the first group to read the bible, and say "aha".

I remember listening to Jerry Garcia once at a Dead show, convinced that he was sending is lyrics straight to me.(certain substances helped me along with this idea). Same process. Making meaning.

I have run into a number of people here in CT who when seeing glacial erratics (big rocks in the forest) are convinced they were left by vikings. Is that any sillier?

All religion is silly from the outside. Inside is a different game altogether.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70487 Mar 31, 2014
Nevertheless, the LDS Church differs from the many other churches within contemporary Christianity, and many people do not accept the church as part of Christianity.[91] The faith itself views other modern Christian faiths as having departed from true Christianity[92] via a general apostasy and that it is a restoration of 1st-century Christianity and the only true and authorized Christian church.[93] Differences between the LDS Church and most of traditional Christianity include disagreement with aspects of the Nicene Creed, belief in a unique theory of human salvation that includes three heavens (referred to as "degrees of glory", its interpretation of I Cor. 15:35 et.seq.),[94] a doctrine of "exaltation" which includes the ability of humans to become gods and goddesses in the afterlife,[95] a dietary code called the Word of Wisdom, and unique ceremonies performed privately in LDS temples, such as the endowment and sealing ceremonies.


Latter-day Saints believe in the resurrection of Jesus, as depicted in this replica of Bertel Thorvaldsen's Christus statue located in the North Visitors' Center on Temple Square in Salt Lake City
Officially, major Christian denominations view the LDS Church as standing apart from creedal Christianity.[96] Leaders of the LDS Church assert that the LDS Church is the only true church and that other churches do not have the authority to act in Jesus' name.[97]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Je...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70488 Mar 31, 2014
former res wrote:
Relation to Judaism
See also: Mormonism and Judaism
Although Mormons do not claim to be part of Judaism, Mormon theology claims to situate Mormonism within the context of Judaism to an extent that goes beyond what most other Christian denominations claim. The faith incorporates many Old Testament ideas into its theology, and the beliefs of Mormons sometimes parallel those of Judaism and certain elements of Jewish culture. In the earliest days of Mormonism, Joseph Smith taught that the Indigenous peoples of the Americas were members of some of the Lost Tribes of Israel. Later, he taught that Mormons were Israelites, and that they may learn of their tribal affiliation within the twelve Israelite tribes. Members of the LDS Church receive Patriarchal blessings which declare the recipient's lineage within one of the tribes of Israel. The lineage is either through true blood-line or adoption. The LDS Church teaches that if one is not a direct descendant of one of the twelve tribes, upon baptism he or she is adopted into one of the tribes. Patriarchal blessings also include personal information which is revealed through a patriarch by the power of the priesthood.
The Mormon affinity for Judaism is expressed by the many references to Judaism in the Mormon liturgy. For example, Smith named the largest Mormon settlement he founded Nauvoo, which means "to be beautiful" in Hebrew. Brigham Young named a tributary of the Great Salt Lake the "Jordan River". The LDS Church created a writing scheme called the Deseret Alphabet, which was based, in part, on Hebrew. The LDS Church has a Jerusalem Center in Israel, where students focus their study on Near Eastern history, culture, language, and the Bible.[69]....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism#Cosmol...
Chuckle.

I dont know if you ever noticed this, but about 50-75% of all English place names in the US are rooted in the bible. And even though they may sound "English"to you, a Hebrew speaker can tease out fairly easily the actually underlying Hebrew. At least the Mormons disposed with the pretensions and went straight to the transliteration.

They are not the first group to claim lost tribe either.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70489 Mar 31, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
What stereotypes are you referring to?
Their beliefs are all well documented. Their missions are ubiquitous and witnessed by many. What exactly are you referring to as a stereotype?
In their defense, however, their religion is no weirder than most other religions.
Permit me to revise my explanation of the stereotype (which incidentally stems from FR).

A naive missionary who steps into an "exotic" culture and misunderstands almost everything around (i.e. in the musical -walks obliviously into an insurgent camp), and thinks exposure to LDS will cure all social ills, especially those that arent really even ills. I.E. its not just the mormon belief system - its the naivety regarding the native culture)
Abolish The Fed

Baltimore, MD

#70490 Mar 31, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Human Nature. Stories coming from ancient manuscripts create an illusion of authenticism and truth due to their longevity. It's the old Argument From Age (Wisdom of the Ancients) logical fallacy.
But really, stories of ancient religions (2000+ years old) are no sillier than Mormonism or any other modern religion. Take mainstream Xtianity, for instance. A child (through no fault of their own) is born with original sin. So God sent himself (Jesus) in human form to be sacrificed to himself in order to save mankind. So now, Xtians eat his body and drink his blood (real, not metaphor, according to Catholics), and all is good.
Do you love your parents?

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