Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Since: Aug 11

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#66943 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
Good points, but 2 thoughts come to mind:
1. People find things in the bible to support whatever it is they already think about something. So what come first? The backwards ways or the religion? So what's the true motivation? Religion? Or homophobia? Anti- sex in general (so that would rule out abortion and birth control)?
I think both.

There are some people that have inherent prejudices, and use religion as an excuse to justify them.(Bad people doing bad things with or without religion)

But then there is a subset of people who are genuinely good and initially devoid of such prejudices, but are compelled to support such prejudices because they are convinced by their religion that it's the right thing to do (Good people doing bad things because of religion).
former res wrote:
2. So they vote to support the way they want things to be.
And we do the same thing. The would call us god-less and lost. We would say "practice beliefs on your own time, at home, at church." Not in public. Not in front of town hall etc.
But to them god and country go together. It's all part of the identity.(Separation of church and state be damned.)
Yes, but our position is verifiably supported by the Constitution. Our position is inherently neutral. Worship whatever you want, just leave the government out of it. Of course, to Fox viewers, this translates to xtian persecution.
former res wrote:
My point is only that everyone votes their own interests.
And we, as atheists are clearly in the minority.
We could easily become a theocracy. The numbers of evangelicals is mind-boggling.
Huckabee scares the hell out of me.
I personally think their days are numbered. The younger generations are increasingly less religious, and most polls are reflecting this shift. Time will tell.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66944 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Which leads me back to my earlier views. Religion and Science are separate entities. They can be combined, imperfectly, of course (I could be a religious but still be a scientist if I follow its methods, and a scientist could study SOME aspects of religion such as the neuroscience on a biological level).
But they go off in different directions to address different questions. Science offers (and proves with the aid of a vocabulary) explanations as to "how", while religion offers a vocabulary to describe perceptions that by definition are difficult to describe scientifically, and to address questions such as purpose, which are too squishy to be operationalized by science.
Science can offer us clues into why humans need/want religion.

Regarding the perceptions that you say religion helps us address, again, science can offer its take on it by claiming and studying them as manifestations of psychological or social constructs.

Likewise, regarding purpose, that is a subjective attribute we humans layer on to our existence. But, through the study of psychology, sociology, neuroscience, etc., science can attempt to understand the drive for purpose, even if none really exists. Ultimately, purpose becomes whatever we want it to be.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66945 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally think their days are numbered. The younger generations are increasingly less religious, and most polls are reflecting this shift. Time will tell.
I dont think they are less religious, rather I think the younger generation is less likely to adopt the collateral BS that goes along with fundamentalist strands of religions. For example, there has been much in the news about (younger?) evangelical Christians who believe in climate change and resultant advocacy. And also those that carry no stigma about homosexuality.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66946 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Science can offer us clues into why humans need/want religion.
Regarding the perceptions that you say religion helps us address, again, science can offer its take on it by claiming and studying them as manifestations of psychological or social constructs.
Likewise, regarding purpose, that is a subjective attribute we humans layer on to our existence. But, through the study of psychology, sociology, neuroscience, etc., science can attempt to understand the drive for purpose, even if none really exists. Ultimately, purpose becomes whatever we want it to be.
Sure, science can tell us something about HOW the religious impulse functions. But it has nothing to offer regarding the EXPRESSION of the religious impulse. Nor can it offer any speculation regarding the meaning or purpose of life other than on the micro-operational level. Yes, I believe evolution can explain HOW the species has differentiated, but it offers nothing as to a purpose of why we are here in the first place other than (religious?) speculation and perhaps an internal reframing of the issue to meet its vocabulary.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66947 Feb 6, 2014
former res---We give money to a few charities.How do you "give back?"

HughBe--- Friend, I never "give back" much to your disappointment.

Former---Why gender matter? Does it to you?

HughBe--- YES. It matters because women are more in need of help, speaking physically.

Former---They are: 2 widows and one elderly couple.

HughBe--- I speak from memory only, previously did you say 3 persons?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66948 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.
HughBe----Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.

COR---And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.

HughBe---- Correct me if I am wrong, my memory tells me that you are either an atheist or an agnostic and if I am correct please explain your emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL description of Christianity.

I need a couple of verses-- "Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem." Isaiah 8

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66949 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont think they are less religious, rather I think the younger generation is less likely to adopt the collateral BS that goes along with fundamentalist strands of religions. For example, there has been much in the news about (younger?) evangelical Christians who believe in climate change and resultant advocacy. And also those that carry no stigma about homosexuality.
But religiosity IS dropping, and not just among the fundamentalist strands.

http://tinyurl.com/d49zmd2

From the article:

"According to the global index, there has been a notable decline in religiosity worldwide.

... according to trending data, religiosity has fallen by 9 points globally since 2005 and the number of people who identify as atheist rose from 4 percent to 7 percent."
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66950 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
and so are "Judaites"
Frijoles---Swastikas are a symbol of hate.

HughBe--- Agree and so are "Jeebus" and "Xians"

Frijoles----and so are "Judaites"

HughBe--- The thing is, you are not the brightest but you know better than the BS that you have spewed out. I call members of your RELIGION Judahites in order to make the distinction between the MEMBERS of Judaism who can be either JEWS or non-Jews and BIOLOGICAL Jews.

Lesson 1---JEWS are a RACE of people or SEEDS/BIOLOGICAL descendants of a man who God called Israel.

Lesson 2-- Anyone can CONVERT to Judaism BUT no one can enter into his mother's womb and change his descent to that of a CHILD of Israel.

Lesson 3---Finally, Eric, the Jew said being Semitic has NOTHING to do with RELIGION. Connecting it for you, Jews are Semitic and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism.

In essence I do NOT want to be a part of the web of DECEPTION that is promoted by people like you and the rabbis.

Now go quickly and teach those blind dumb rabbis these TRUTHS.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66951 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, science can tell us something about HOW the religious impulse functions. But it has nothing to offer regarding the EXPRESSION of the religious impulse. Nor can it offer any speculation regarding the meaning or purpose of life other than on the micro-operational level. Yes, I believe evolution can explain HOW the species has differentiated, but it offers nothing as to a purpose of why we are here in the first place other than (religious?) speculation and perhaps an internal reframing of the issue to meet its vocabulary.
Yes, but like I said, my contention is that purpose is what we humans define (either consciously or subconsciously). And science certainly CAN speculate as to how and why the brain manufactures purpose. But I agree with you that religion is a conduit of expression, even though we may only be expressing ideas and beliefs that which our own brains manufacture.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66952 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles---Do you know what hypocritical means?

HughBe--- When I checked I saw the following meanings.

1. RABBIS
2. You and people like you
3. People who DELIBERATELY pretend e.g. not understanding when the reality is otherwise.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66953 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe----Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.
COR---And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.
HughBe---- Correct me if I am wrong, my memory tells me that you are either an atheist or an agnostic and if I am correct please explain your emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL description of Christianity.
I need a couple of verses-- "Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem." Isaiah 8
HughBe: Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.

COR: And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.

HughBe: Correct me if I am wrong, my memory tells me that you are either an atheist or an agnostic and if I am correct please explain your emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL description of Christianity...blah, blah blah...

Tell me Hugh, what part of my response was emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL?

Is it not a fact that multiple sects of xtianity exist?

Is it not a fact that most people can't seem to come to an agreement on the nature of God, Jesus, Religion?

Seems to me you are projecting your emotions, disrespect and HATE onto other posters when you really should focus on why those attributes apply more to you than most anyone else on this forum.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66954 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
But religiosity IS dropping, and not just among the fundamentalist strands.
http://tinyurl.com/d49zmd2
From the article:
"According to the global index, there has been a notable decline in religiosity worldwide.
... according to trending data, religiosity has fallen by 9 points globally since 2005 and the number of people who identify as atheist rose from 4 percent to 7 percent."
There is no question that Catholicism has taken a hit due to the scandals (OTOH that article was written before the new pope, who is a man of the people) but I dont know how they measure "religiosity" other than self replies to surveys. Many people say "I am NOT religious but I AM spiritual" - the implication being that is that they are not affiliated with ORGANIZED religion.

Also, these things come and go according to age. Many people revisit their affiliations when they get older (and start worrying about the end, perhaps) and when they have kids.

Generally speaking, I think as long as their is a tribal impulse in society, there will be room for organized religions. I dont see the world as being any more unified as we enter the future, despite the interconnections of the technology.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66955 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe: Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.
COR: And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.
HughBe: Correct me if I am wrong, my memory tells me that you are either an atheist or an agnostic and if I am correct please explain your emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL description of Christianity...blah, blah blah...
Tell me Hugh, what part of my response was emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL?
Is it not a fact that multiple sects of xtianity exist?
Is it not a fact that most people can't seem to come to an agreement on the nature of God, Jesus, Religion?
Seems to me you are projecting your emotions, disrespect and HATE onto other posters when you really should focus on why those attributes apply more to you than most anyone else on this forum.
Not that I enjoy speaking for Hughbe, but in his value system, I think your label of "xtianity" is what he is referring to as disrespectful.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66956 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow - seems as though you really see this issue in black and white.
No such thing as mean-spirited humor? A joke that hurts someone's feelings?
A joke that disrespects a group, gender, race, religion, ethnic heritage?
(Note that I am playing devil's advocate. I enjoy a very wide range of humor. But not everyone does.)
Would a funny cartoon of Mohamed be ok?
Is the only test whether YOU would find something offensive?
Very good post and my words are not meant to flatter. I particularly liked these words, "Is the only test whether YOU would find something offensive?"

I call your post INSIGHTFUL.

Much love, Mon.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66957 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
Frijoles---Do you know what hypocritical means?
HughBe--- When I checked I saw the following meanings.
1. RABBIS
2. You and people like you
3. People who DELIBERATELY pretend e.g. not understanding when the reality is otherwise.
So, answer this, what beliefs of those Christian Hebrews do you NOT share?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66958 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
My two cents (because I love butting in to other people's conversations): Everyone has the right to be offended (over anything). No one has the right to prevent others from offending them. Look no further than how anti-blasphemy laws have been abused to understand my position.
Agree with you and the First Amendment!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66959 Feb 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but like I said, my contention is that purpose is what we humans define (either consciously or subconsciously). And science certainly CAN speculate as to how and why the brain manufactures purpose. But I agree with you that religion is a conduit of expression, even though we may only be expressing ideas and beliefs that which our own brains manufacture.
There is no way prove what the purpose of life is. Its a non scientific question. Or perhaps you believe you know THE meaning of art? I think an artist would have a problem with your approach as well.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66960 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Swastikas are a symbol of hate.
HughBe--- Agree and so are "Jeebus" and "Xians"
Frijoles----and so are "Judaites"
HughBe--- The thing is, you are not the brightest but you know better than the BS that you have spewed out. I call members of your RELIGION Judahites in order to make the distinction between the MEMBERS of Judaism who can be either JEWS or non-Jews and BIOLOGICAL Jews.

Lesson 1---JEWS are a RACE of people or SEEDS/BIOLOGICAL descendants of a man who God called Israel.
Lesson 2-- Anyone can CONVERT to Judaism BUT no one can enter into his mother's womb and change his descent to that of a CHILD of Israel.
Lesson 3---Finally, Eric, the Jew said being Semitic has NOTHING to do with RELIGION. Connecting it for you, Jews are Semitic and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism.
In essence I do NOT want to be a part of the web of DECEPTION that is promoted by people like you and the rabbis.
Now go quickly and teach those blind dumb rabbis these TRUTHS.
you are the ONLY person who uses the term, and it has been expressed to you MULTIPLE times how we might find it offensive (I.e. your posts dont come off as analytical but as hateful )

For example "Now go quickly and teach those blind dumb rabbis these TRUTHS..."

yet you continue it.

hence the credibility problem
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66961 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Most lawyers I know,(and I work often with them professionally) are unhappy with their choice of profession. Client relations, staff management, and cash flow are major issues. Law school apparently forgot to tell them they would be running a business first, and practicing law second.
If you try to run your own office, sure.
Though some manage to do it.

But that's only one way to go.

I know a poor lawyer who owes back taxes but I also know
one who started at $130K right out of law school and it
wasn't even at top tier school. Big Phila firm. Lots of work but
she enjoys it.(Actually they just made a her partner so much
bigger bucks. 100s of thousands/yr

Then there's corporate law and many other areas of practice.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66962 Feb 6, 2014
COR---Tell me Hugh, what part of my response was emotional,disrespectful and HATEFUL?

HughBe--- You are NOT a bloody fool and YOU know that your "xtianity" is DISRESPECTFUL etc.

Lesson 1-- no Christian would refer to the religion in that way.

Do you care to hazard a guess as to why Christians would not speak the way that you did? Give it a try.

COR---Is it not a fact that multiple sects of xtianity exist?

HughBe--- Lesson 2---It seems that there is a genuine need for you to attend etiquette classes among other things.

COR---Seems to me you are projecting your emotions, disrespect and HATE onto other posters when you really should focus on why those attributes apply more to you than most anyone else on this forum.

HughBe--- I want YOU to speak to any real atheists or agnostic and NOT a pretender like you and describe Christianity in the way that you did and see his or her response. Do the same to ANY Christian that you know or encounter in your area and let me know the response.

Wake-up, COR.

Finally, one's speech betrays them.

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