Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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former res

Cheshire, CT

#66112 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, here is the rub. Since now that have you grasped the concept, pursuant to our lengthy previous conversations, it is time to move it up a notch.
Minhagim (plural of minhag) are actually part of Halacha (Jewish law - literally translated as "the way") too.
Jewish law consists of both mitzvot (commandments that derive directly from the text (bible)) and minhagim. Mitzvot are universally binding while minhagim are not.
Much like the religion I grew up with - made up of "scripture and tradition." Though much of the tradition may be binding as well. Various notions around the pope are clearly not in the bible. And so on.

So most pick and choose what to follow.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#66113 Jan 18, 2014
Hugh,

What is the source of bad?

What exceeds good and bad?

Why is it essential for every facet or for every capacity to inhere in a system?
sallylou

Pittsburgh, PA

#66114 Jan 18, 2014
youtube.com/watch...
Bad Day Again? Jews stupid
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66115 Jan 18, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Correct in terms of being able to IDENTIFY one of the key words. You are incorrect in terms of your UNDERSTANDING of how the word was used. Let me explain it to you. WERE was used because because they are ARE dead.
Indeed, we can agree that they are long dead.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former----They then became the earliest Christians.
HughBe-- Correct as they followed their Jewish Messiah.
We also agree on this. Jesus was Jewish.
(He did not worship himself, as far as we know.
Therefore, he was not a Christian.)
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Jews don't believe in JC. Religion 101.
HughBe--- What a DUNCE you are. Did you not understand what was said above? NO. Jews BELIEVED in Jesus the Jew.
It is you who should be fitted for the dunce cap.
Jesus could not have been Christian for the reason
already stated.
By the very fact that the earliest Christians believed JC
was the son of god, they were by definition Christians and not Jews.
Again, this is religion 101.
You can call anyone anything, but this does not make it so.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---What do you see as the difference between Jews and Christians? Anything at all?
HughBe--- RACE. The RACE called Jews are BIOLOGICAL relatives and they can believe anything and their beliefs will NEVER change their ANCESTRY. Study it as clearly you are a VICTIM of the LIES and DECEPTION of rabbis.
Yes, I see. We've been here before.
I agree with you. Inasmuch as I can stop
being Catholic (and I did) but I cannot stop being Irish.
By your own reasoning then, all Christians have some
Jewish blood in them, correct? Since we descended from
Jews.

A Jew who becomes an atheist, a Christian or whatever
is still ethnically Jewish. Is this all you're saying?

But you agree he has converted form the religion of Judaism
to another religion, or lack thereof? Therefore he is no longer
a practicing Jew.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66116 Jan 18, 2014
HughBe wrote:
Former---What do you see as the difference between Jews and Christians? Anything at all?
HughBe---- What a profoundly intelligent question. Note, I have already answered this question in a previous post but now I am asking you to answer it by telling me the differences between a Jew and a Christian.
My understanding is that "we" Christians are waiting for the 2nd coming while my Jewish friends are still waiting for the first.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66117 Jan 18, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are good enough (REALLY good!) with a bow, it is much harder for anyone to know that you are hunting - unless they catch you with a deer over your shoulders as you head back to the truck. No shots to hear.
:)
and if you are not so good, your buck will running terrified through the neighborhood with an arrow sticking out through its hind, followed by lots of horrified and screaming neighbors....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66118 Jan 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Much like the religion I grew up with - made up of "scripture and tradition." Though much of the tradition may be binding as well. Various notions around the pope are clearly not in the bible. And so on.
So most pick and choose what to follow.
Yep. Perhaps you can tell me why the pope wears a yarmulke. In Jewish tradition, this is not a commandment, only a custom, though a custom adopted by 100% of observant Jews.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66119 Jan 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
My understanding is that "we" Christians are waiting for the 2nd coming while my Jewish friends are still waiting for the first.
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.

BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66120 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. Perhaps you can tell me why the pope wears a yarmulke. In Jewish tradition, this is not a commandment, only a custom, though a custom adopted by 100% of observant Jews.
To hide his bald spot?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66121 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>

BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
There are many people here in Topix that claim to be the Messiah.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66122 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.
BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
Waiting for the messiah is a common part of Jewish theology. What makes it distinct from the Christian concept is that the messiah does not cause redemption of the world, rather the messiah is part of the whole process (i.e. the process starts on its own and THEN the messiah shows up).

And there are some that believe that return to Israel will usher in the Messiah.

There are strands of Hasidic thought (from 400 years ago) which further refined the concept to suggest that on a deeper level, the messiah is not even a human but a symbol for a psychological shift in perception.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66123 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
To hide his bald spot?
Its not so easy to wear one of those things on a bald spot. I think they sell special glue for that.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#66124 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.
BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
The story of the coming of Messiah started when the Jews were deported to Babylon. They were waiting for the messiah back then but he didn't show up. Then they waited for the Messiah when they were under the roman occupation, but the right messiah didn't show up.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66125 Jan 18, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
The story of the coming of Messiah started when the Jews were deported to Babylon. They were waiting for the messiah back then but he didn't show up. Then they waited for the Messiah when they were under the roman occupation, but the right messiah didn't show up.
There is some confusion in the terminology here.

You are correct that there are certain references in the Prophets ( example - Isaiah) that long for or predict a military savior. Then later Christians confused those references by creating a Christian concept of the "messiah".

But the Jewish concept of a messiah does not derive from the same references that the Christians claim are examples of Jesus. The Jewish conceptions are mainly (but not totally) rooted in the 5 Books of Moses (i,e the Tanach)- using criteria from passages that the Christians routinely neglect or ignore (as we see everyday here with Hughbe).

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#66126 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There is some confusion in the terminology here.
You are correct that there are certain references in the Prophets ( example - Isaiah) that long for or predict a military savior. Then later Christians confused those references by creating a Christian concept of the "messiah".
But the Jewish concept of a messiah does not derive from the same references that the Christians claim are examples of Jesus. The Jewish conceptions are mainly (but not totally) rooted in the 5 Books of Moses (i,e the Tanach)- using criteria from passages that the Christians routinely neglect or ignore (as we see everyday here with Hughbe).
Can you give some passages and conceptions about messiah from the 5 books of Moses?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66127 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not so easy to wear one of those things on a bald spot. I think they sell special glue for that.
I don't have a bald spot, but I swear by bobby pins

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66128 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Waiting for the messiah is a common part of Jewish theology...
Had some pretty lively discussions about his with the religious community. Over-emphasis on messianic prophecy leads to a lot of bad things, in my iopinion. I understand fully that it has been a central tenet of Judaism since pre-Talmudic times and something that has held us together as a people for an equally long time. However,, I'm concerned that over-emphasis on seeking the Messiah (not the concept of a Messiah itself) leads to diversion from world that is to the world that will be, poor selection criteria and cults of personality. There are lots of people out there more than willing to volunteer for the position and a lot of us stupid enough to let them take the job.

IMHO we might want to rethink the undoubtedly appealing but nevertheless potentially distracting business of waiting for the Messiah.(This is of course my own opinion and not that of Jewish Conspiracy Inc, it's holding company or subsidiaries).

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66129 Jan 18, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you give some passages and conceptions about messiah from the 5 books of Moses?
http://torahsparks.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/v...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66130 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Had some pretty lively discussions about his with the religious community. Over-emphasis on messianic prophecy leads to a lot of bad things, in my iopinion. I understand fully that it has been a central tenet of Judaism since pre-Talmudic times and something that has held us together as a people for an equally long time. However,, I'm concerned that over-emphasis on seeking the Messiah (not the concept of a Messiah itself) leads to diversion from world that is to the world that will be, poor selection criteria and cults of personality. There are lots of people out there more than willing to volunteer for the position and a lot of us stupid enough to let them take the job.
IMHO we might want to rethink the undoubtedly appealing but nevertheless potentially distracting business of waiting for the Messiah.(This is of course my own opinion and not that of Jewish Conspiracy Inc, it's holding company or subsidiaries).
Personally, I dont put much thought or stock into this set of beliefs (messianic theology)- except to say that it is always nice to hope for better times. I tend to follow a (neo) hasidic approach where tikkun olam is realized through a personal process of self growth, and probably actualized on an individual rather than a communal level.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66131 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a bald spot, but I swear by bobby pins
I dont have a bald spot, but if I did I would go Bukharan.

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