Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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Since: Aug 11

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#62947
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain chaos theory then?
Even the best of scientists acknowledge the limits of their discipline (not just the current state of their tools, but the applicableness of their tools).
I'm not sure I get your point about chaos theory.

In chaos theory, different initial conditions can lead to vastly different end results. I don't see anything unusual about that. Sounds pretty rational to me. Mathematically, it all makes sense.

Theoretically, you could predict the end result if you knew, not just the initial condition, but the values of all other variables in the system.

The fact that it is either impracticle or impossible to collect all these values leads us to not be able to make highly accurate long-term predictions (think weather). But so what. I'm not sure where this line of reasoning is going. Should we all learn to rain dance because we can't predict the weather beyond a few days?

I feel like we've really strayed beyond the original topic. ;-)

Since: Aug 11

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#62948
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference between COR and I, VS you and I, is at the end of the day not only do COR and I respect each other, but we even understand each others positions.
We are being more Jesus than you could ever hope to model.
Jesus who?

;-)

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Jesus is Real" and I thought to myself, "Of course he is. He mows my lawn".

Since: May 13

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#62949
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

I find it humorous that you are advocating as such considering both COR and I treat you (deservingly) as a loon with maturity issues.
That's a personal opinion.

I am exclusively referring to the subject of the debate and nothing else.

COR is not intelligent but nevertheless COR made you a laughing stock using simple logic that pointed out your hypocrisy and bigotry.

LOL.

Grow up, you're heading for destruction.

Since: May 13

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#62950
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

exactly.

And the same can be same for religion, arts, yoga, and the rest of the human created world.
My, what an illogical dunce you are.

I am feeling sorry for you.



Religion is not neutral if it revolves around a personal G-d like YHVH, Jesus or Vishnu.

Art is also not neutral since it depends on the moods, skills and inclinations of the artist.

Yoga is not neutral since the seeker aims at a certain typal being or a specific plane in the meditation/trance thus indicating his innate bias and much of the results of yoga are molded by the natural instincts of the Yogi.

However, science is neutral - for example - mass, g, c, h, e, hydrogen, or other natural factors do not depend on the personality of the scientists since they are naturally existing impersonal facts.

Go and earn a few dollars otherwise you'll starve and besides you're teased and defeated.

Since: May 13

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#62952
Nov 18, 2013
 
I am rockin' to EDM. The system is blasting, Mon.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62953
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Assume that extra-cosmic G-d who creates from nothing exists and that this G-d is not an evanescent product of conscious energy.
Can you ask a question like this - why does G-d exist?
The only answer would be because he exists.
WHY can be asked about ordinary phenomena like say why does it rain or why is it hot today or why are you late?
You can't ask a question like this - why is water wet?
The only answer is that wetness is its innate characteristic.
Or, it would be absurd to ask - why energy can be neither created nor destroyed?
The answer is that this is the way it is.
Or, you can't ask a silly question like - why does the cosmos exist?
The answer is because energy being self-existent and eternal and cyclical in nature thus cosmos in QM form or in 4-dimesnional spatio-temporal form has always existed.
Existence never disappears nor does it appear from nothing. That would be a contradiction since there's nothing like absolute nothing. So, existence can oscillate between subtle to gross and vice versa but existence will never be blotted out into nothingness.
Joel---there's nothing like absolute nothing.

Hugh--- upon reading those words I wondered if there was a trick to them because when I tried to relate your entire post to my question below I deemed your post to be ABSOLUTE nothingness.

Try answering once more.

Question, suppose you must make a choice between knowing HOW something is done or WHY it is done , which would you choose?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62954
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
COR is not intelligent but he is consistent in pointing out the hypocrisy of fanatical retards like Frijoles and Rick.
You can't hope to win any debate with even a kid if you base your logic on a pathetic book like Torah or on the illogic of an idiot like Maimonides.
I tell you that Frijoles is heading for destruction ---- his force fields are already showing a tinge of unbalance as a force of destruction prepares to move into his aura....
As for Rick, well, he'll be elated sucking dicks as he reads Torah and plays with his dolls.
LMFAO
I take it that COR is at least far more honest, in your opinion.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62955
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Joel - 1, Hugh - 0.
(smiles)
I believe that there is a place for self-gratification. So carry on.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62957
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Good night.
Hugh, don't visit public loos, please.
Why pick up other guys for sex, when I am all yours, Honey.
(grins)
Joel---Why pick up other guys for sex, when I am all yours, Honey.

Hugh---You may recall that I once told you that I pick up guys for the sole purpose of giving them NORMAL sex education. They are not required to take,at a later date, their female companions to the classes in order to demonstrate to me that they have learnt their lessons.

Having said all of this, you are still my guy.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62958
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference between COR and I, VS you and I, is at the end of the day not only do COR and I respect each other, but we even understand each others positions.
We are being more Jesus than you could ever hope to model.
I accept that you do not understand the things that I say. On the other hand I understand the positions that you cling to and the things that you say.

The problem is, many of your cherished beliefs and positions are without merit.

Let me illustrate by examples.

1. YOU have a habit of speaking on behalf of the ENTIRE Jewish populations all over the world. This approach is ABSURD.

2. You speak as if Jews who have REJECTED Judaism share your religious positions. This approach is ABSURD.

3. You embrace a LIE that Jews cannot be Christians. I excuse your rabbis as they are dunces and are not exposed to common sense but what is your excuse? I am with you almost daily and so you have no excuse.

4.You hold a Ph.D. in the sciences. Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.

Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.

Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect from afflicting the person.

Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.

I find the doctrine to be CRUEL and inhumane.

Your comedy line about you and Jesus has been noted.

Finally in terms of disrespect, don't give and it shall not be given back to you.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62959
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus who?
;-)
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Jesus is Real" and I thought to myself, "Of course he is. He mows my lawn".
He painted our house a few years back too. Did a great job.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62960
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
COR is not intelligent but nevertheless COR made you a laughing stock using simple logic that pointed out your hypocrisy and bigotry.
Dont back pedal, it makes you look less manly.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62961
Nov 18, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
I accept that you do not understand the things that I say. On the other hand I understand the positions that you cling to and the things that you say.
The problem is, many of your cherished beliefs and positions are without merit.
Let me illustrate by examples.
1. YOU have a habit of speaking on behalf of the ENTIRE Jewish populations all over the world. This approach is ABSURD.
2. You speak as if Jews who have REJECTED Judaism share your religious positions. This approach is ABSURD.
3. You embrace a LIE that Jews cannot be Christians. I excuse your rabbis as they are dunces and are not exposed to common sense but what is your excuse? I am with you almost daily and so you have no excuse.
4.You hold a Ph.D. in the sciences. Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.
Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.
Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect from afflicting the person.
Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
I find the doctrine to be CRUEL and inhumane.
Your comedy line about you and Jesus has been noted.
Finally in terms of disrespect, don't give and it shall not be given back to you.
Like we said, every village needs their idiot. Consider it job security.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62962
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure I get your point about chaos theory.
In chaos theory, different initial conditions can lead to vastly different end results. I don't see anything unusual about that. Sounds pretty rational to me. Mathematically, it all makes sense.
Theoretically, you could predict the end result if you knew, not just the initial condition, but the values of all other variables in the system.
The fact that it is either impracticle or impossible to collect all these values leads us to not be able to make highly accurate long-term predictions (think weather). But so what. I'm not sure where this line of reasoning is going. Should we all learn to rain dance because we can't predict the weather beyond a few days?
I feel like we've really strayed beyond the original topic. ;-)
I think a better term to offer is random. Not everything fits a logical model.

Rain dances have functions besides from sympathetic magic. So the answer is, yes.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

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#62963
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
It's actually impossible to disprove a god(s), though it's not too difficult to disprove the God of the bible. But so what?

Similar to how the Jews must obey Yahweh's commands or suffer the consequences? Allegory or not, the message is pretty clear.
rabbee: judging by the fact, they should number in the billions by now. certainly suggests they, are ticking somebody or SOMEBODY off. and the fact that their scripture, predicted this. does add credence to, alleged as their scriptures. TheTorah even predicted, the coming of That Guy, 2000 years ago. and also predicts what happens, after that. and since the statement is G-D does not lie about a certain story. then i would not expect THEM, to change it no matter how many more times, they give it to this disbelieving world. and if This Alleged G-D, gave this exact same story for three time with Adam to adam and his mate in IT again. do you think that could be, considered a coincidence?

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

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#62965
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think I ever said "science can explain all - eventually". Surely, there may be aspects of reality that are beyond our bounds of exploration (e.g. a ten-dimensional universe, perhaps). For those, we can merely hypothesize, and see if we can make accurate predictions around our hypothesis. For those things that we can't even do that, then I subjugate them into the realm of don't know / don't care. I don't find a need to make up labels or explanations for the unknowable / unprovable.
<quoted text>
Here's where we really part ways. There is no faith in science. The material world is rational, and science is a tool to discover what is knowable. It makes no statements about the existence of the unknowable.
rabbee: oh no! it takes just as much faith, to believe in the science of fallible men. as it does to believe in fallible men's own versions of their g-d's. no matter what you believe in, it's your g-d or G-D.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

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#62966
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain chaos theory then?
Even the best of scientists acknowledge the limits of their discipline (not just the current state of their tools, but the applicableness of their tools).
rabbee: diverse un-unified beliefs, are extremely chaotic. we are the only chaotic, factor in here. but the results, of chaos are extremely predictable for each chaotic group. with two or more alleged unguided mistakes, guided against each other. so chaos is not necessarily, unlimited randomness.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62967
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Like we said, every village needs their idiot. Consider it job security.
Focus.

You hold a Ph.D. in the sciences. Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.

Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.

Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.

Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#62968
Nov 18, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Focus.
You hold a Ph.D. in the sciences. Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.
Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.
Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.
Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
Why, Hugh, you have done this personally. You have told us that although you are not a Jew, you have Jewish ancestors and relatives. How did you do it? Maybe you did it because you don't recognize being a Jew due to your personal preferences.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62969
Nov 18, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Focus.
You hold a Ph.D. in the sciences. Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.
Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.
Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.
Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
ethno-religious

that means partly by birth through mother and partly by belief

to qualify under either, you have to self-identify. No self-identification, you are no longer Jewish.

I dont recollect you ever asserting that you had matrilineal descent. You have Jewish ancestry, but no intact bloodline.

Jews are not the first tribe or only tribe to have rules of descent. Its a very common system. If you studied anthropology you would of known this.*

No need to reply. I wont be reading it anyhow.

----------
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality

Matrilineality is a system in which descent is traced through the mother and maternal ancestors. Matrilineality is also a societal system in which one belongs to one's matriline or mother's lineage, which can involve the inheritance of property and/or titles.

A matriline is a line of descent from a female ancestor to a descendant (of either sex) in which the individuals in all intervening generations are mothers a mother line. In a matrilineal descent system an individual is considered to belong to the same descent group as her or his mother. This matrilineal descent pattern is in contrast to the more common pattern of patrilineal descent from which a Family name is usually derived.

The matriline of historical nobility was also called her or his enatic or uterine ancestry, corresponding to the patrilineal agnatic ancestry.

In some ancient cultures, membership in their groups was (and still is if in bold) inherited matrilineally. Example cultures or societies include the Cherokee, Choctaw, Gitksan, Haida, Hopi, Iroquois, Lenape, Navajo, and Tlingit of North America; the Minangkabau people of West Sumatra, Indonesia and Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia; the Nairs of Kerala and the Bunts of Karnataka in south India; the Khasi, Jaintia and Garo of Meghalaya in northeast India; the Mosuo of China; the Basques of Spain and France; the Akan including the Ashanti of west Africa; the Tuaregs of west and north Africa; and the Serer of Senegal, the Gambia and Mauritania. Some of these examples are discussed in this article, as listed below

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