Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62915 Nov 18, 2013
CONGRATULATIONS TO COR ON TROUNCING FRIJOLES/RICKS IN THE DEBATE:

In this debate, COR comes out on top not because he's intelligent - far from it - but simply on account of the fact that he's able to counter the arguments from Frijoles/Rick where belief in a scriptural G-d by consistently pointing out that there's zero evidence for G-d and that his rivals should apply the same standards of evaluation to every religion.

As expected, Frijoles and Rick display zero reasoning skills and rely on tribalism and on mumbo jumbo mental constructs that they attempt to coat over with polite words but the substance in their arguments is pathetic and befitting the status of retards and bigots.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62916 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if I agree with this statement. While morality is a very nuanced topic, I think there is a lot that both the hard and soft sciences can offer us, including discovery, direction and identity.
Ultimately science does not address "why" questions. It addresses "what" and "how" questions. When it does venture into "why" territory, it hedges the discourse as "interpretation"
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, concepts of morality can be predicated on a belief in god (for believers) and not (for non-believers and believers). All very personal and somewhat subjective and relativistic as I don't believe in an overarching objective morality. But we diverge. The original intent of my most was not to argue over the existence of god or the nuances of morality, but to point out that faith based participants are not in a position to denigrate the faiths of other faith based participants.
Maybe not an overarching morality, but then there is a question of identity.

I dont think RM was denigrating Christians, as much as he was taking them to task for lashing out at his/my group. I think his ultimate argument was practical, not theological - that Christians had perverted the teaching of their god so much as to render them useless, given the negative climate that they had institutionalized.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62917 Nov 18, 2013
Yawn. LOL.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62918 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure. I do agree that Jews mostly stick to a focus on THEIR beliefs, not the beliefs of others. If you recall, though, my participation in this whole topic started over Rick calling the central figure of another religion mythical and my response was "glass houses"...
Have you ever studied Maimonides? As a rationalist, his premise was that we can't say what God is, we can only say what he isnt. I.E> we can only define something from the point of elimination (which is how science works).

One of the implications of this is that while you can respond by saying "I dont need a god concept - science can explain all - eventually", science really isnt any better as it requires (via faith) two assumptions - that the world is rational, and that it is knowable. As a result, both science and religion can only get you so far.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62919 Nov 18, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
SCIENCE HAS SHOWN US HOW TO BE MORAL - HERE'S HOW:
1) To be moral, one needs accurate knowledge at one's disposal and the technological/material means to alleviate suffering everywhere. This is real help and so it is true morality, whereas siting in a shrine and praying on shabbat to a savage being called G-d who teaches to kill, curse,
and ostracize is immorality - example, the barbaric Jewish G-d.
2) Morality is all about showing us how to act with care and concern and intelligence towards life forms and nature.
3) Science has shown us strong evidence concerning the fundamental oneness of cosmic existence and so this provides us with a concrete example of being moral by looking on everything as simply so many manifested aspects and as a result by adopting a sustainable lifestyle would be the best way one can live in peace and harmony without exploiting living creatures and inanimate nature.
4) Science has shown us that humans are 99.9 % similar in genes and so hatred and xenophobia should disappear, while religions encourage hatred and racism.
5) Science has given us the technological, agricultural, telecommunication, transportation and medical care means to provide for the poorer sections of society.
CONCLUSION: Only an idiot like Frijoles says that science has not shown us how to be moral. On the other hand, religions preach immorality and ignorance and violence and hatred.
LMFAO
The Germans applied a highly scientific approach to the elimination of large numbers of human beings - all in the name of science and progress.

POOF goes your argument

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62920 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

The Germans applied a highly scientific approach to the elimination of large numbers of human beings - all in the name of science and progress.
Religion has done the same or worse over thousands of years by indulging in genocides, slavery, rapes, persecutions and torture.

Unlike religion, science has the means to give us real information about nature/being and to provide us with the technological tools to provide real help to people.

Religion is mumbo jumbo and aimed at retards.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62921 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Ultimately science does not address "why" questions.
Religion like science does not explain WHY.

At the most the WHY of faith is that some G-d is pleased if so and so thing is done.

LMFAO.

Since, energy is self-existent and eternal and cyclical despite changing form from gross to subtle and vice versa, thus the question WHY does the universe exist is illogical.

The universe is simply an existential fact and not a creation of some G-d.

Assuming this creature called G-d exists, the same question can be asked of this G-d: WHY does this G-d exist? This is again an illogical question.

Whatever is, simply is.

There's nothing like nothing nor is there anything like non-existence.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62922 Nov 18, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
COR ends up with a score of 5, Frijoles scores 0, while Rick earns a score of minus 3. LOL.
Based on what you have written, I see that the C is outperforming big F.

Much love Mon.

Later.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62923 Nov 18, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion like science does not explain WHY.
At the most the WHY of faith is that some G-d is pleased if so and so thing is done.
LMFAO.
Since, energy is self-existent and eternal and cyclical despite changing form from gross to subtle and vice versa, thus the question WHY does the universe exist is illogical.
The universe is simply an existential fact and not a creation of some G-d.
Assuming this creature called G-d exists, the same question can be asked of this G-d: WHY does this G-d exist? This is again an illogical question.
Whatever is, simply is.
There's nothing like nothing nor is there anything like non-existence.
Suppose you must make a choice between knowing HOW something is done or WHY it is done , which would you choose?

I truly must go.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62924 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Have you ever studied Maimonides?

As a rationalist, his premise was that we can't say what God is,

we can only say what he isn't.
Really?

G-d is murderous - Yes,

G-d is cruel - Yes

G-d supports human sacrifices - Yes

G-d asks for burnt offerings - Yes

G-d commanded the patriarchs to mass murder the worshippers of rival Gods - Yes

G-d is tribal - Yes

G-d is infanticidal - Yes

G-d is anthropopathic and monolatristic - Yes

G-d is a jealous G-d - Yes

G-d is revengeful - Yes

G-d displays fits of rage - Yes

G-d created the world in 6 days - Yes

G-d promotes incest - Yes

G-d is homophobic - Yes

G-d hates gentiles - Yes

G-d promotes prostitution/pimping of one's wife - Yes

G-d promotes cannibalism - Yes

G-d created the world from nothing - Yes

G-d promotes bashing babies against rocks - Yes

G-d is ignorant - Yes

G-d was borrowed by the patriarchs from the Babylonians - Yes

G-d is a demon - Yes

LMFAO

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62925 Nov 18, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Based on what you have written, I see that the C is outperforming big F.

Much love Mon.

Later.
Yes.

COR is not intelligent but he is consistent in pointing out the hypocrisy of fanatical retards like Frijoles and Rick.

You can't hope to win any debate with even a kid if you base your logic on a pathetic book like Torah or on the illogic of an idiot like Maimonides.

I tell you that Frijoles is heading for destruction ---- his force fields are already showing a tinge of unbalance as a force of destruction prepares to move into his aura....

As for Rick, well, he'll be elated sucking dicks as he reads Torah and plays with his dolls.

LMFAO

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62926 Nov 18, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Suppose you must make a choice between knowing HOW something is done or WHY it is done , which would you choose?
Assume that extra-cosmic G-d who creates from nothing exists and that this G-d is not an evanescent product of conscious energy.

Can you ask a question like this - why does G-d exist?

The only answer would be because he exists.

WHY can be asked about ordinary phenomena like say why does it rain or why is it hot today or why are you late?

You can't ask a question like this - why is water wet?

The only answer is that wetness is its innate characteristic.

Or, it would be absurd to ask - why energy can be neither created nor destroyed?

The answer is that this is the way it is.

Or, you can't ask a silly question like - why does the cosmos exist?

The answer is because energy being self-existent and eternal and cyclical in nature thus cosmos in QM form or in 4-dimesnional spatio-temporal form has always existed.

Existence never disappears nor does it appear from nothing. That would be a contradiction since there's nothing like absolute nothing. So, existence can oscillate between subtle to gross and vice versa but existence will never be blotted out into nothingness.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#62927 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
One of the implications of this is that while you can respond by saying "I dont need a god concept - science can explain all - eventually"
I don't think I ever said "science can explain all - eventually". Surely, there may be aspects of reality that are beyond our bounds of exploration (e.g. a ten-dimensional universe, perhaps). For those, we can merely hypothesize, and see if we can make accurate predictions around our hypothesis. For those things that we can't even do that, then I subjugate them into the realm of don't know / don't care. I don't find a need to make up labels or explanations for the unknowable / unprovable.
Frijoles wrote:
science really isnt any better as it requires (via faith) two assumptions - that the world is rational, and that it is knowable. As a result, both science and religion can only get you so far.
Here's where we really part ways. There is no faith in science. The material world is rational, and science is a tool to discover what is knowable. It makes no statements about the existence of the unknowable.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62928 Nov 18, 2013
Bye, Hugh.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62929 Nov 18, 2013
Existence has always been in existence. The idea of absolute nothing is absurd. Thus, the question WHY does the existence exist is silly. Science being part of existence naturally bases its inquiries on the various aspects of existence and seeks to tap into the energies of existence to make it available to the whole of humankind and in this manner science is doing us a great service and it is a moral pursuit since it seeks to discover phenomena and enrich us with hard facts in the process and to make available various means to subsist and flourish. Religion with its mumbo jumbo and cruelty has done nothing for the world.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62930 Nov 18, 2013
Joel - 1, Hugh - 0.

(smiles)

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62931 Nov 18, 2013
Science is evidence-based, not faith-based.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62932 Nov 18, 2013
Good night.

Hugh, don't visit public loos, please.

Why pick up other guys for sex, when I am all yours, Honey.

(grins)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62933 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think I ever said "science can explain all - eventually". Surely, there may be aspects of reality that are beyond our bounds of exploration (e.g. a ten-dimensional universe, perhaps). For those, we can merely hypothesize, and see if we can make accurate predictions around our hypothesis. For those things that we can't even do that, then I subjugate them into the realm of don't know / don't care. I don't find a need to make up labels or explanations for the unknowable / unprovable.
<quoted text>
Here's where we really part ways. There is no faith in science. The material world is rational, and science is a tool to discover what is knowable. It makes no statements about the existence of the unknowable.
How do you explain chaos theory then?

Even the best of scientists acknowledge the limits of their discipline (not just the current state of their tools, but the applicableness of their tools).

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62934 Nov 18, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion has done the same or worse over thousands of years by indulging in genocides, slavery, rapes, persecutions and torture.
Unlike religion, science has the means to give us real information about nature/being and to provide us with the technological tools to provide real help to people.
Religion is mumbo jumbo and aimed at retards.
Straw argument. Noone was arguing about the superiority of religion. In fact, I even stated earlier that what religion provides other aspects of our culture can easily provide as well.

Grasping for attention. Must suck.

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