Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62887 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Five million cups of wine in a single night? That's quite a bender.
If Santa can visit every Christian house in a single night, Elijah can drink in a few million Jewish households. And, unlike Santa, he doesnt have to drive.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62888 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
If Santa can visit every Christian house in a single night, Elijah can drink in a few million Jewish households. And, unlike Santa, he doesnt have to drive.
Yes, but look what all those cookies and milk did to his waistline.

Since: May 13

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#62889 Nov 18, 2013
PERSONALITY, DNA & INFORMATION FIELDS:

1) Parents transfer through their genetic materials physical, emotional and psychological tendencies to offspring with these aspects together with environmental influences contributing to creating the personality of the offspring.

2) Genes cover heredity in a profound sense and are not restricted to simply a transmission of biological features.

3) There exist no clear-cut molecular mechanisms that define personality or intelligence since in my view at deeper levels of the DNA inhere the information related to personality traits that're embedded in energy fields vibrating at frequencies other than those that correspond to the information fields that code for physical characteristics. However, everything is causally linked in the genome field.

4) Specific genes for personality traits or for intelligence have not been discovered but it's been observed tinkering with certain genes can alter the embedded informational fields in one's genome leading to changes in personality and intellectual functioning.

Since: Aug 11

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#62890 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
If I said my religion was "better" than someone else's it would imply I'm privy to G-d's grand unified design for the Universe. Which, of course, I'm not. If I were, I would wear a Howard Hughes beard and tell everyone how I'm right and they're filthy sinners.
Judaism is better for me and that's why I'm thankful G-d made me a Jew and I didn't have to go through an onerous conversion. Is it better for anyone else? Who am I to say? I don't meet a lot of people who I'd like to see convert to Judaism.
What I did say that we are not as dependent on the Xtians on the sanctity of the historical record to support the core concepts of our faith. The entire structure of Xtianity would collapse if it turned out Jebus wasn't a real person. Not so much with Moses.
Jews, for the most part (we're not a monolithic group), revere the prophets in that we respect their lessons to us but be don't deify them. We don't pray to them. Jews don't say,'accept Ezekiel or burn in Hell'(which we don't have anyway). We do set a place for Elijah at the Seder but no one actually expects zombie Elijiah to show up. That would just be too creepy.
Every religion is based on faith, which, as far as I'm concerned, is shaky ground. You can argue that without a real Jesus, the Xstian religion falls apart. Similarly, without the existence of God, your religion ceases to be a religion and becomes nothing more than a philosophy with a set of moral codes, I fail to see the difference.

Since: May 13

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#62892 Nov 18, 2013
FREQUENCIES OF VIBRATION OF ENERGY FIELD IN BRAIN & THE RELATED MANIFESTATIONS:

1) Beta brain waves (13 to 30 hz) correspond to sharp reasoning skills, high alertness, optimal use of the 5 senses, quick learning and to the exteriorized state of consciousness, while delta brain waves (0.5 to 4 hz) correspond to an indwelling or retreat of the consciousness from surface activities that result in a feeling of great tranquility, dreamless sleep, deep relaxation and beginning of profound oneness.

2) Higher trance states culminating in stasis that exceed trance are still reduced states of vibration of the conscious-energy fields corresponding to brain matter and at times the field of energy of brain matter in these deep indrawn states of existence connect with energy fields that exceed the rate of vibration of the fields that are contained in the brain-body system.

3) To forge a strong causal link between the beta brain waves and the delta brain waves is the first stage in making trance state the natural state of the body. With this done, one can progress to linking these 2 states of vibration of the conscious-energy field of the individual with still lower states of vibration of conscious-energy field that constitute the deeper states of conscious-energy field resulting in profounder super-sensory phenomena.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#62893 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Every religion is based on faith, which, as far as I'm concerned, is shaky ground. You can argue that without a real Jesus, the Xstian religion falls apart. Similarly, without the existence of God, your religion ceases to be a religion and becomes nothing more than a philosophy with a set of moral codes, I fail to see the difference.
It all depends upon what your faith is based. Fundamentally, Jewish faith rests on the fact that there is one G-d and he encompasses the entire Universe. It is very difficult to disprove G-d. The Universe is infinite but physical space can't be, by definition. So, there is clearly something much larger at work that we can see, feel and measure. Does that something, call it G-d if you like, cause the fall of every sparrow and every drop of rain? Who knows, reasonable folks will differ. My own personal belief, which is fully compatible with Judaism, is that G-d works smart, not hard. He created Quantum Physics and Molecular Biology and stood back and waited until we became self aware. That doesn't make G-d lazy, just efficient. Does it say that in Torah, no, of course it doesn't. But, most Jews believe that Torah is a combination of oral history and allegory. Much of it isn't meant to be taken as literal fact. It doesn't have to be strict literal fact to retain it's usefulness as a guide to life and the cornerstone of Jewish culture.

On the other hand, if your faith is based on a man who is your one and only conduit to the afterlife. That faith is ultimately doomed to disappointment. If it turns out not to be literal then your entire concept of what that man commands you to do goes up in smoke. Jebus's good lessons not withstanding, his primary message is, "Believe in my divinity or burn in Hell forever". At least that is how his followers explain it.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62894 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Every religion is based on faith, which, as far as I'm concerned, is shaky ground. You can argue that without a real Jesus, the Xstian religion falls apart. Similarly, without the existence of God, your religion ceases to be a religion and becomes nothing more than a philosophy with a set of moral codes, I fail to see the difference.
TO jump in....Earlier you were talking about the existence of Jesus, and from that the conversation switched to Moses. God is an altogether different matter. Obviously the system is predicated on some level on the belief in a God concept of some sort (which by the way is different than the anthropomorphic God in the sky, and different from the Christian god is man concept). However, godless Judaism is not without precedent. See http://www.shj.org/ , though it is arguable whether this is still Judaism or not.(personally I dont think of it as Judaism, but I would embrace it far sooner than I would embrace Christianity).

Since: May 13

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#62895 Nov 18, 2013
ha ha ha ha

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62896 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
It all depends upon what your faith is based. Fundamentally, Jewish faith rests on the fact that there is one G-d and he encompasses the entire Universe. It is very difficult to disprove G-d. The Universe is infinite but physical space can't be, by definition. So, there is clearly something much larger at work that we can see, feel and measure. Does that something, call it G-d if you like, cause the fall of every sparrow and every drop of rain? Who knows, reasonable folks will differ. My own personal belief, which is fully compatible with Judaism, is that G-d works smart, not hard. He created Quantum Physics and Molecular Biology and stood back and waited until we became self aware. That doesn't make G-d lazy, just efficient. Does it say that in Torah, no, of course it doesn't. But, most Jews believe that Torah is a combination of oral history and allegory. Much of it isn't meant to be taken as literal fact. It doesn't have to be strict literal fact to retain it's usefulness as a guide to life and the cornerstone of Jewish culture.
On the other hand, if your faith is based on a man who is your one and only conduit to the afterlife. That faith is ultimately doomed to disappointment. If it turns out not to be literal then your entire concept of what that man commands you to do goes up in smoke. Jebus's good lessons not withstanding, his primary message is, "Believe in my divinity or burn in Hell forever". At least that is how his followers explain it.
My most simple theological position is thus: There has to be something out there keeping the system going - it could just be gravity for all I know - but if it was up to us humans all the time to keep the world going, we would be toast (as evidenced by my observation of human incompetence and rivalry that I observe day by day).

Am reading "The God Upgrade" by Jaimie Korngold right now. Light reading, but basic thesis,(of which I have read others on this topic a few times before), is that the God concept has evolved from early Biblical to late Biblical all the way up to modern, as our understandings of the world have evolved. Therefore it is really sad to still see kids being taught the Old Man in the Sky concept (who punishes and rewards you) when probably 80% of them are already too smart for that idea.

Fundamental to all of this is my view that prayer does not change "God" - it changes you.

Since: Aug 11

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#62897 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
It all depends upon what your faith is based. Fundamentally, Jewish faith rests on the fact that there is one G-d and he encompasses the entire Universe.
[QUOTE who="Rick Moss "]
Jewish faith isn't the only monotheistic religion that believes that. Xtians also consider themselves monotheistic, even if you disagree. Sure there are some mental gymnastics to get there, but then, what religion doesn't employ mental gymnastics?

[QUOTE who="Rick Moss "]
It is very difficult to disprove G-d.
It's actually impossible to disprove a god(s), though it's not too difficult to disprove the God of the bible. But so what? It's also impossible to emphatically disprove Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or Bertrand Russell's teapot. But just because you can't disprove something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Otherwise, we should be wiling to accept every infinite possibility of everything, evidence be damned.
Rick Moss wrote:
The Universe is infinite but physical space can't be, by definition.
Citation needed. Seems to me you are wading into theoretical physics where plenty of competing theories still exist, so I, personally, would be more restrained in making such absolute statements.
Rick Moss wrote:
So, there is clearly something much larger at work that we can see, feel and measure.
So it all boils down to a "argumentum ad ignorantiam" a.k.a "God of the Gaps argument" a.k.a "Argument for "Incredulity". A logical fallacy.
Rick Moss wrote:
Does that something, call it G-d if you like, cause the fall of every sparrow and every drop of rain? Who knows, reasonable folks will differ. My own personal belief, which is fully compatible with Judaism, is that G-d works smart, not hard. He created Quantum Physics and Molecular Biology and stood back and waited until we became self aware.
And all of this is based on a personal belief without evidence - or faith for short.
Rick Moss wrote:
That doesn't make G-d lazy, just efficient. Does it say that in Torah, no, of course it doesn't. But, most Jews believe that Torah is a combination of oral history and allegory. Much of it isn't meant to be taken as literal fact. It doesn't have to be strict literal fact to retain it's usefulness as a guide to life and the cornerstone of Jewish culture.
And that's perfectly fine. But I still don't see how that gives you the edge to diss someone else's faith, regardless of how they see things. Again, faith is faith, all based on the premise of an unprovable, supernatural force. Again, glass houses...
Rick Moss wrote:
On the other hand, if your faith is based on a man who is your one and only conduit to the afterlife. That faith is ultimately doomed to disappointment. If it turns out not to be literal then your entire concept of what that man commands you to do goes up in smoke.
The same way your faith goes up in smokes if it turns out god, however you abstractly envision him, doesn't exist.
Rick Moss wrote:
Jebus's good lessons not withstanding, his primary message is, "Believe in my divinity or burn in Hell forever". At least that is how his followers explain it.
Similar to how the Jews must obey Yahweh's commands or suffer the consequences? Allegory or not, the message is pretty clear.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62898 Nov 18, 2013
Prayer changes nothing fundamental in nature or in being. It's mass superstition and a means of mind control that puts the mind in a narrow groove of dependency on some so-called god. Prayer does not even activate a higher range of consciousness in a person.

Since: Aug 11

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#62899 Nov 18, 2013
BTW - I'm not the one judging posts. I'm actually enjoying the discourse.

Since: May 13

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#62900 Nov 18, 2013
Typing a critique on the Double Slit experiment and observer effect on collapse of wave function.

Since: Aug 11

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#62901 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
TO jump in....Earlier you were talking about the existence of Jesus, and from that the conversation switched to Moses. God is an altogether different matter. Obviously the system is predicated on some level on the belief in a God concept of some sort (which by the way is different than the anthropomorphic God in the sky, and different from the Christian god is man concept). However, godless Judaism is not without precedent. See http://www.shj.org/ , though it is arguable whether this is still Judaism or not.(personally I dont think of it as Judaism, but I would embrace it far sooner than I would embrace Christianity).
Yes, the inclusion of God in the conversation was inevitable since Xtians believe Jesus to be God in human form. But whether we're talking about prophets, man-gods, or "the" God, it all boils down to that one word - faith.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62902 Nov 18, 2013
Faith is blind unless backed by logic and supporting evidence. Back to the typing of the critique on double slit experiment.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#62903 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
My most simple theological position is thus: There has to be something out there keeping the system going - it could just be gravity for all I know - but if it was up to us humans all the time to keep the world going, we would be toast (as evidenced by my observation of human incompetence and rivalry that I observe day by day).
Argument for Incredulity. You can't imagine how the world could possibly keep going on it's own (whatever that means), so you attribute it to some external force.

With regards to human incompetence and rivalry, we see the negative effects on that daily. But we also see cooperation and empathy which helps balance things out to some degree.
Frijoles wrote:
Am reading "The God Upgrade" by Jaimie Korngold right now. Light reading, but basic thesis,(of which I have read others on this topic a few times before), is that the God concept has evolved from early Biblical to late Biblical all the way up to modern, as our understandings of the world have evolved. Therefore it is really sad to still see kids being taught the Old Man in the Sky concept (who punishes and rewards you) when probably 80% of them are already too smart for that idea.
Fundamental to all of this is my view that prayer does not change "God" - it changes you.
That's the whole problem with the God of the Gaps argument. The more we evolve intellectually, the less necessity there is for a god concept to explain things. However, since there will always be things unknown to us (it's inevitable given the size of the Universe), there will always be those who are uncomfortable with simply saying "I don't know", and prefer to attribute explanations to a god. The only difference is that god keeps getting more and more abstract. If this trend continues, we may just abstract him out of existence.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#62904 Nov 18, 2013
The quoting got a little messed up at the beginning of my last reply to Rick...
Rick Moss wrote:
It all depends upon what your faith is based. Fundamentally, Jewish faith rests on the fact that there is one G-d and he encompasses the entire Universe.
Jewish faith isn't the only monotheistic religion that believes that. Xtians also consider themselves monotheistic, even if you disagree. Sure there are some mental gymnastics to get there, but then, what religion doesn't employ mental gymnastics?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62905 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That's the whole problem with the God of the Gaps argument. The more we evolve intellectually, the less necessity there is for a god concept to explain things. However, since there will always be things unknown to us (it's inevitable given the size of the Universe), there will always be those who are uncomfortable with simply saying "I don't know", and prefer to attribute explanations to a god. The only difference is that god keeps getting more and more abstract. If this trend continues, we may just abstract him out of existence.
You are assuming that the God concept purpose is soley to explain the unknown. I beg to disagree. I have no issue with science (most Jews obviously dont), and I dont look to my God concept to explain anything (my gravity theology was partially tongue and cheek saying more about humans than God). However, for example, science can not discover morality, nor can it provide direction, nor can it provide identity - which is fundamental to direction and morality. These are the thing culture and society provides, and ones concept of either can just as easy depend upon a God concept as not.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62906 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the inclusion of God in the conversation was inevitable since Xtians believe Jesus to be God in human form. But whether we're talking about prophets, man-gods, or "the" God, it all boils down to that one word - faith.
The traditional Jewish position regarding Christianity is not that it is wrong (despite what we might think privately) but that it fundamentally violates (at least) one of our commandments. Since we do not assume that Christians have to follow all of our commandments, really, what the Christians may or may not believe is really not our concern (just leave us alone). Our concern is what WE believe. This keeps the judgments, as abhorrent as they may seem to people, focused on ourselves and not on others, and is the reason why we dont stand on street corners handing out bibles to nonJews.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#62907 Nov 18, 2013
Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel but they are murdered in Egypt and the rest of the Muslim world.

I've visited Israel, they treat gentiles very well. I've seen the way they treat Arabs in Israel, like neighbors.

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