Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62873 Nov 17, 2013
typo

Most intelligent and not so intelligent Jews have quit the cult being DISGUSTED with the teachings

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62874 Nov 17, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Oh, please keep in mind that I am not an OBSERVANT, follower of men's rules on homosexuality.
Your vibes, exclamations and style of writing show otherwise.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#62875 Nov 17, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Shhhhhh... the grown-ups are talking
rabbee: a grown-down groaning up, is not a grown-up

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62876 Nov 17, 2013
Degree of freedom is the number of variables required to describe the motion of a particle in toto.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62877 Nov 17, 2013
On a cumulative scale, each plane of the conscious-energy field, has its innate degree of vibration that as a result brings into the play a characteristic set of phenomena. Thus, each plane is distinguished from all the others by its degree of vibration.

Since: Aug 11

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#62878 Nov 17, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
The main difference is that Judaism isn't a cult of human personalty in the way that Xtianity is. We don't worship Moses or David or even our sages.
Let's say for a moment that the historic Moses never existed, or didn't exist in any way close to the biblical record. That wouldn't change anything about Mosaic law. The commandments, our relation ship to G-d, the foundation very of the Jewish belief system would remain fundamentally intact.
On the other hand, Jebus is a god, demi-god, divine creature (accounts vary) who demands worship and who claims that said worship is the only path that will stave off eternal damnation (according to his biographers).
If Jebus never existed (and I see no reason to believe he did) the fundamental beliefs of Xtianity are invalid.
So basically, your religion is better than their religion because you don't revere your prophets in the way that Xtians do? I suppose I can't fault you for defending your religion, in the same way I couldn't fault anyone from any of the thousands of other religions that have existed from defending theirs, but... glass houses, and all that..

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62879 Nov 17, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>So basically, your religion is better than their religion because you don't revere your prophets in the way that Xtians do? I suppose I can't fault you for defending your religion, in the same way I couldn't fault anyone from any of the thousands of other religions that have existed from defending theirs, but... glass houses, and all that..
If I said my religion was "better" than someone else's it would imply I'm privy to G-d's grand unified design for the Universe. Which, of course, I'm not. If I were, I would wear a Howard Hughes beard and tell everyone how I'm right and they're filthy sinners.

Judaism is better for me and that's why I'm thankful G-d made me a Jew and I didn't have to go through an onerous conversion. Is it better for anyone else? Who am I to say? I don't meet a lot of people who I'd like to see convert to Judaism.

What I did say that we are not as dependent on the Xtians on the sanctity of the historical record to support the core concepts of our faith. The entire structure of Xtianity would collapse if it turned out Jebus wasn't a real person. Not so much with Moses.

Jews, for the most part (we're not a monolithic group), revere the prophets in that we respect their lessons to us but be don't deify them. We don't pray to them. Jews don't say,'accept Ezekiel or burn in Hell'(which we don't have anyway). We do set a place for Elijah at the Seder but no one actually expects zombie Elijiah to show up. That would just be too creepy.

Since: May 12

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#62880 Nov 17, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>

What I did say that we are not as dependent on the Xtians on the sanctity of the historical record to support the core concepts of our faith. The entire structure of Xtianity would collapse if it turned out Jebus wasn't a real person. Not so much with Moses.
If it turns out Moses wasn't a real person then people would question the veracity of the Torah, since he was the one who supposedly wrote it, spoke with god, received the commandments, brought the Hebrews out of the Egypt, etc.

In my opinion it doesn't really matter or shouldn't matter much, whether one did exist or not as long as the teachings his supposedly said or taught are worth to be followed.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62881 Nov 18, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
In my opinion it doesn't really matter or shouldn't matter much, whether one did exist or not as long as the teachings his supposedly said or taught are worth to be followed.
I think I said precisely that.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62882 Nov 18, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
If it turns out Moses wasn't a real person then people would question the veracity of the Torah, since he was the one who supposedly wrote it, spoke with god, received the commandments, brought the Hebrews out of the Egypt, etc.
Or people would then assume it was written by a number of people, or at worst, totally a work of fiction, and then many people would still value and follow its teachings anyhow.

Which is exactly the public view of perhaps half of world Jewry today (The Reform, the Reconstructionist and some of the Conservative denominations) and perhaps even more of the private views of the rest of the Jews today.

And yet, as Rick Moss correctly prophecised (PBUH), the system still continues in this very day good health and with its more internal of its logic intact.

Its not like your question is a new question. Its been bandied around within our religion for at least 500 years, probably 5000 years.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62883 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically, your religion is better than their religion because you don't revere your prophets in the way that Xtians do? I suppose I can't fault you for defending your religion, in the same way I couldn't fault anyone from any of the thousands of other religions that have existed from defending theirs, but... glass houses, and all that..
Do you mean "better" as our system is more truthful than religion x?

I would have to agree with RM, that ideology aside, the reality is that most Jews dont waste their time thinking their religion is more truthful than others, and they dont bother with any comparisons.

Judaism is a tribal religion, and intended to a specific tribe. It doesnt stress conversion, and it acknowledges other tribes exist (and therefore other religions exist). Our most tribal concept, "choseness" is preoccupied with our OWN behavioral obligations to be considered chosen, and doesnt even really address truthfulness.(I.E. it is behavior oriented and not faith oriented).

MY own view, which I have stated before, is that I have no problem with a Christian stating that their religion is best for them. Just not for me.

Incidentally, throughout our daily liturgy, we acknowledge paganism, almost by name. We just dont promote it internally among ourselves. http://zemerl.com/cgi-bin/show.pl... +(Who+is+like+you%3F)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62884 Nov 18, 2013

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62885 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
We do set a place for Elijah at the Seder but no one actually expects zombie Elijiah to show up. That would just be too creepy.
Most people I have noticed try not to think about the implications. However, more often than not, his wine cup is drained by the end of the seder. Whats up with that?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62886 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>Most people I have noticed try not to think about the implications. However, more often than not, his wine cup is drained by the end of the seder. Whats up with that?
Five million cups of wine in a single night? That's quite a bender.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#62887 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Five million cups of wine in a single night? That's quite a bender.
If Santa can visit every Christian house in a single night, Elijah can drink in a few million Jewish households. And, unlike Santa, he doesnt have to drive.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62888 Nov 18, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
If Santa can visit every Christian house in a single night, Elijah can drink in a few million Jewish households. And, unlike Santa, he doesnt have to drive.
Yes, but look what all those cookies and milk did to his waistline.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62889 Nov 18, 2013
PERSONALITY, DNA & INFORMATION FIELDS:

1) Parents transfer through their genetic materials physical, emotional and psychological tendencies to offspring with these aspects together with environmental influences contributing to creating the personality of the offspring.

2) Genes cover heredity in a profound sense and are not restricted to simply a transmission of biological features.

3) There exist no clear-cut molecular mechanisms that define personality or intelligence since in my view at deeper levels of the DNA inhere the information related to personality traits that're embedded in energy fields vibrating at frequencies other than those that correspond to the information fields that code for physical characteristics. However, everything is causally linked in the genome field.

4) Specific genes for personality traits or for intelligence have not been discovered but it's been observed tinkering with certain genes can alter the embedded informational fields in one's genome leading to changes in personality and intellectual functioning.

Since: Aug 11

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#62890 Nov 18, 2013
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
If I said my religion was "better" than someone else's it would imply I'm privy to G-d's grand unified design for the Universe. Which, of course, I'm not. If I were, I would wear a Howard Hughes beard and tell everyone how I'm right and they're filthy sinners.
Judaism is better for me and that's why I'm thankful G-d made me a Jew and I didn't have to go through an onerous conversion. Is it better for anyone else? Who am I to say? I don't meet a lot of people who I'd like to see convert to Judaism.
What I did say that we are not as dependent on the Xtians on the sanctity of the historical record to support the core concepts of our faith. The entire structure of Xtianity would collapse if it turned out Jebus wasn't a real person. Not so much with Moses.
Jews, for the most part (we're not a monolithic group), revere the prophets in that we respect their lessons to us but be don't deify them. We don't pray to them. Jews don't say,'accept Ezekiel or burn in Hell'(which we don't have anyway). We do set a place for Elijah at the Seder but no one actually expects zombie Elijiah to show up. That would just be too creepy.
Every religion is based on faith, which, as far as I'm concerned, is shaky ground. You can argue that without a real Jesus, the Xstian religion falls apart. Similarly, without the existence of God, your religion ceases to be a religion and becomes nothing more than a philosophy with a set of moral codes, I fail to see the difference.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62892 Nov 18, 2013
FREQUENCIES OF VIBRATION OF ENERGY FIELD IN BRAIN & THE RELATED MANIFESTATIONS:

1) Beta brain waves (13 to 30 hz) correspond to sharp reasoning skills, high alertness, optimal use of the 5 senses, quick learning and to the exteriorized state of consciousness, while delta brain waves (0.5 to 4 hz) correspond to an indwelling or retreat of the consciousness from surface activities that result in a feeling of great tranquility, dreamless sleep, deep relaxation and beginning of profound oneness.

2) Higher trance states culminating in stasis that exceed trance are still reduced states of vibration of the conscious-energy fields corresponding to brain matter and at times the field of energy of brain matter in these deep indrawn states of existence connect with energy fields that exceed the rate of vibration of the fields that are contained in the brain-body system.

3) To forge a strong causal link between the beta brain waves and the delta brain waves is the first stage in making trance state the natural state of the body. With this done, one can progress to linking these 2 states of vibration of the conscious-energy field of the individual with still lower states of vibration of conscious-energy field that constitute the deeper states of conscious-energy field resulting in profounder super-sensory phenomena.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#62893 Nov 18, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Every religion is based on faith, which, as far as I'm concerned, is shaky ground. You can argue that without a real Jesus, the Xstian religion falls apart. Similarly, without the existence of God, your religion ceases to be a religion and becomes nothing more than a philosophy with a set of moral codes, I fail to see the difference.
It all depends upon what your faith is based. Fundamentally, Jewish faith rests on the fact that there is one G-d and he encompasses the entire Universe. It is very difficult to disprove G-d. The Universe is infinite but physical space can't be, by definition. So, there is clearly something much larger at work that we can see, feel and measure. Does that something, call it G-d if you like, cause the fall of every sparrow and every drop of rain? Who knows, reasonable folks will differ. My own personal belief, which is fully compatible with Judaism, is that G-d works smart, not hard. He created Quantum Physics and Molecular Biology and stood back and waited until we became self aware. That doesn't make G-d lazy, just efficient. Does it say that in Torah, no, of course it doesn't. But, most Jews believe that Torah is a combination of oral history and allegory. Much of it isn't meant to be taken as literal fact. It doesn't have to be strict literal fact to retain it's usefulness as a guide to life and the cornerstone of Jewish culture.

On the other hand, if your faith is based on a man who is your one and only conduit to the afterlife. That faith is ultimately doomed to disappointment. If it turns out not to be literal then your entire concept of what that man commands you to do goes up in smoke. Jebus's good lessons not withstanding, his primary message is, "Believe in my divinity or burn in Hell forever". At least that is how his followers explain it.

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