Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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Voluntarist

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#59615
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Testimony? Thats part of the problem.
Give me data thru studies.
Again, if you read my post, I am not against supplementation, just excessive supplementation.
The proof is in the pudding, I live in the real world.
Voluntarist

United States

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#59616
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You might not realize it, but you are supporting my view.
Its not about the amount of calcium you eat, its about your ability to utilize it, AND the chemistry of the urine which keeps it in and out of solution (i.e. its alkalinity and its concentration of reagents such as oxalate and citrate). Both of those factors can be somewhat independent of calcium intake, which contradicts your earlier view that kidney stones (oxalate stones) are caused by not enough calcium in your diet.
Not just my view, from my earlier post;

The answer is that high dietary calcium
actually blocks a chemical action that causes
the formation of the stones. It binds with
oxalates (from foods) in your intestine, which
then prevents both from being absorbed into
your blood and later transferred to your
kidneys.

If there isn't enough calcium then these stones are allowed to form, doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
But the mds are telling people to cut calcium, just like they tell people to cut cholesterol that your body needs.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59617
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
The proof is in the pudding, I live in the real world.
so do I

If I wanted testimony I would attend church

that is not proof

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59618
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Not just my view, from my earlier post;
The answer is that high dietary calcium
actually blocks a chemical action that causes
the formation of the stones. It binds with
oxalates (from foods) in your intestine, which
then prevents both from being absorbed into
your blood and later transferred to your
kidneys.
If there isn't enough calcium then these stones are allowed to form, doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
But the mds are telling people to cut calcium, just like they tell people to cut cholesterol that your body needs.
Dingbat

If you bothered to read any of the med links I posted you would note that Dr are NOT recommending that. Or they shouldnt be

I think I will side with modern medicine, thank you

Since: May 13

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#59619
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

It appears to be the opposite.

Perhaps the idea is that excessive C keeps the oxalate in solution, where it can crystallize, and interferes with its absorption.
If ascorbate readily bonds with free calcium ions in solution then the logical implication is that the availability of free calcium ions would be lesser thereby giving free oxalate ions little chance of bonding with free calcium ions to form calcium oxalate (stones).

So, a diet rich in vitamin C would prevent or reduce the risk in of oxalate as well as phosphate stone formation.

Mainly, I think a diet that's highly deficient in ascorbate and low on sodium would help in preventing or in reducing the risk of kidney stone formation.

Well, whatever.

Since: May 13

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#59620
Oct 5, 2013
 
CONCLUSION

"More common is secondary hyperoxaluria, which can be seen in the setting of bowel surgery, inflammatory bowel disease, excessive intake of vitamin C, and renal insufficiency...."

COMMENTS

So. there are no clear cut dos and donts where prevention or reducing the risk of kidney stone formation is concerned.

Each case is different and so each patient whose body is inclined towards kidney stone formation should work out a diet that's best suited to his body type.

Since: May 13

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#59621
Oct 5, 2013
 
Leading Mind-Matter mainstream scientist Dr Dean Radin would be greatly benefited if I join his team for the scientific, philosophical, experimental, experiential and deductive aspects of his lab work. I only hope he's not gay or bisexual otherwise on seeing my handsome personality he'll begin chasing me instead of taking advantage of the multifaceted expertise and novel insights that I can bring into his dedicated research in mind-matter. You know that I am God's gift to girls, bisexuals and gays.

(smiles)

Since: May 13

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#59622
Oct 5, 2013
 
I would like to work in the growing field of mind-matter research using qm, math, philosophy, neuroscience, bio-chemistry, consciousness and yogic experiences. I think I can contribute in unique ways.
Voluntarist

United States

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#59623
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
so do I
If I wanted testimony I would attend church
that is not proof
You are koo koo for cocopuffs , if 1st hand testimony isn't proof then the prosecutors wouldn't be able to convict anyone in traffic cases.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59624
Oct 6, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are koo koo for cocopuffs , if 1st hand testimony isn't proof then the prosecutors wouldn't be able to convict anyone in traffic cases.
Being that you do not understand the difference between ancedotal and statistically proven, it is a waste of time to continue this conversation with you.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59625
Oct 6, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
If ascorbate readily bonds with free calcium ions in solution then the logical implication is that the availability of free calcium ions would be lesser thereby giving free oxalate ions little chance of bonding with free calcium ions to form calcium oxalate (stones).
So, a diet rich in vitamin C would prevent or reduce the risk in of oxalate as well as phosphate stone formation.
Mainly, I think a diet that's highly deficient in ascorbate and low on sodium would help in preventing or in reducing the risk of kidney stone formation.
Well, whatever.
Dont shoot the messenger. I am only providing you the modern medicine links. Obviously there is an intervening factor that we are not considering.

There is firm evidence that citrate reduces formation. Hence the directive to drink lots of lemonade. This has been clinically demonstrated.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59626
Oct 6, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
CONCLUSION
"More common is secondary hyperoxaluria, which can be seen in the setting of bowel surgery, inflammatory bowel disease, excessive intake of vitamin C, and renal insufficiency...."
COMMENTS
So. there are no clear cut dos and donts where prevention or reducing the risk of kidney stone formation is concerned.
Each case is different and so each patient whose body is inclined towards kidney stone formation should work out a diet that's best suited to his body type.
The common thread to risk reduction is to
- increase fluid intake, analyze your stone and urine chemistry, decrease high oxalate foods such as rhubarb and spinach (if oxalate), and drink more citrate (if oxalate). There is NO recommendation regarding Calcium, unless something is known about one's metabolic imbalance (if any).

Everything else is specific to ones plight. In many cases, like mine, I dont suffer from any of those metabolic conditions, so I need not get any more specific at this time.
Voluntarist

United States

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#59627
Oct 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Being that you do not understand the difference between ancedotal and statistically proven, it is a waste of time to continue this conversation with you.
Its ok you can stay in your sick world with your kidney stones and other medical issues, ill stay in my "anecdotal" world healthy and vibrant.
Good luck! Take your meds!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59628
Oct 6, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Its ok you can stay in your sick world with your kidney stones and other medical issues, ill stay in my "anecdotal" world healthy and vibrant.
Good luck! Take your meds!
Trust us, you are not a poster child for "healthy". You are mentally insane at worst, and illogical at best.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59629
Oct 6, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Its ok you can stay in your sick world with your kidney stones and other medical issues, ill stay in my "anecdotal" world healthy and vibrant.
Good luck! Take your meds!
what meds? I managed to prolong the space between kidney stone episodes from once a year to once every five years SIMPLY by drinking more water - without bothering with any dietary modification - under advice of my Dr. After the last one, I started drinking lemonade, too.

Not very high tech. And all under advice of the medical establishment.

You are tilting at windmills, picking fights with entities that there is no fight with. All for the purpose of making your insecure little self feel smug. Thats not healthy.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#59630
Oct 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Dingbat
If you bothered to read any of the med links I posted you would note that Dr are NOT recommending that. Or they shouldnt be
I think I will side with modern medicine, thank you
rabbee: people cannot understand, why you should not standardize either cholesterol, calcium or other vitamins and minerals. the requirements from childhood to adult are not fixed. as well as for each individual, can be different. too much vitamins and minerals can be just as, dangerous or more dangerous as too little.

even vitamin c, can cause death. even with it being difficult to overdose, on vitamin c because of it's high solubility. several health nuts in the past, have died by overdosing on vitamin c. too much vitamin a and b, is also even more deadly. due to a lower solubility index. too many vitamins and minerals, can also ruin your health.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#59631
Oct 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
what meds? I managed to prolong the space between kidney stone episodes from once a year to once every five years SIMPLY by drinking more water - without bothering with any dietary modification - under advice of my Dr. After the last one, I started drinking lemonade, too.
Not very high tech. And all under advice of the medical establishment.
You are tilting at windmills, picking fights with entities that there is no fight with. All for the purpose of making your insecure little self feel smug. Thats not healthy.
rabbee: if you are a vegetarian, i might help to mix 1 or 2% food grade calcium hydroxide with your salt. unless you put vinegar in your vegies, which would defeat the purpose.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59632
Oct 6, 2013
 
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: people cannot understand, why you should not standardize either cholesterol, calcium or other vitamins and minerals. the requirements from childhood to adult are not fixed. as well as for each individual, can be different. too much vitamins and minerals can be just as, dangerous or more dangerous as too little.
even vitamin c, can cause death. even with it being difficult to overdose, on vitamin c because of it's high solubility. several health nuts in the past, have died by overdosing on vitamin c. too much vitamin a and b, is also even more deadly. due to a lower solubility index. too many vitamins and minerals, can also ruin your health.
I did mention a few posts ago my wariness about excessive supplementation. It seems like many packaged foods supplement, and when you eat a few of the different foods a day, you are exceeding the idealized intakes.

Fact is, eating real food will go along way without needing a lot of supplementation.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59633
Oct 6, 2013
 
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: if you are a vegetarian, i might help to mix 1 or 2% food grade calcium hydroxide with your salt. unless you put vinegar in your vegies, which would defeat the purpose.
Or adding baking soda to one's glass of water.

I have been reading about alkalinized water. Apparently people are confusing alkaline water WITH water with alkalinity. Not that I am sure of the difference. If I understand it correctly, alkaline water is negated in the stomach due to buffering mechanisms, while water with alkalinity survives the stomach and alkalinizes the urine?
Voluntarist

United States

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#59634
Oct 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Trust us, you are not a poster child for "healthy". You are mentally insane at worst, and illogical at best.
My logic skills surpass yours, your problem is that you think that you know it all, you are ignorant and pompous.
Silly bitch go hump your boyfriend.

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