Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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Since: May 13

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#59594
Oct 5, 2013
 
The Harvard researchers cite three possible explanations for the findings:



1) Dietary calcium somehow reduces the amount of oxalate, one of the components of kidney stones, absorbed by the body.


2) Taking calcium supplements at breakfast or between meals somehow spills too much calcium into the urine.


3) There may be some other property in dairy products that reduces the risk of stone formation.

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#59595
Oct 5, 2013
 

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HIGHLIGHT:

A low sodium diet can help prevent calcium kidney stones.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#59596
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
We learned a
thousand years ago in the agricultural industry, if you want to
prevent kidney stones in livestock, you had better give them more
calcium. You had better give them more magnesium, and more
boron. Now the reason is, of course, bulls and rams, male cattle
and sheep, have special anatomy, when they get a kidney stone,
they die. It's called water belly. They die. When you and I get a
kidney stone, we just wish we were dead. But no farmer is dumb
enough to pay for the feed for an animal, and have it die before
he can either eat it or send it to market. So we learned how to
prevent those things. So you should have gotten a recall notice
from your doctor, especially those people who have had kidney
stones. Your urologist should have sent the notice to you.
This was about 15 months ago, March, 1993, it says, "Calcium
limits kidney stone risk." This is from the Harvard Medical School
in Boston. "In a study that turns conventional medical wisdom on
its head, researchers have found that people whose diets are rich
in calcium run a reduced risk of developing kidney stones. A study
of more than 45,000 people who are ranked in the 5 categories,
the group that had the most calcium had no kidney stones." So it
took them a thousand years to catch up.
http://www.whale.to/a/dead_doctors.html
rabbee: calcium oxalate, is not absorbed through the intestines. only the soluble oxalic acid, is absorbed. calcium oxalate crystals that is formed prior to the intestines, will pass on. consuming calcium supplements hours prior to ingestion of oxalic acid, may increase the risk of insoluble calcium oxalate crystal growth. and calcium is not the problem, it is oxalic acid or to lesser degree uric acids that are the problem. and uric acid stones, is usually associated with gout.

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#59597
Oct 5, 2013
 
BOTTOM LINE - CALCIUM INTAKE AND KIDNEY STONES:

1) Less calcium intake means more oxalate ions are free to enter the urine and bind with free calcium in solution forming stones.

2) Oxalate ions are more reactive than calcium ions and so the trick is to prevent free oxalate ions from entering the kidneys in excess amounts where they're most likely to bind with free calcium ions to form calcium oxalate stones.

3) Increasing dietary calcium intake would mean that most of the oxalate ions get compounded with the calcium and thus prevent a large number of free oxalate ions from entering the kidney.

4) Sodium intake should be minimized since sodium being more reactive than calcium (as sodium is higher up the activity series) can displace calcium ions from compounds there by causing free calcium ions to enter the kidneys where they can bond with free oxalate ions to form calcium oxalate crystals or kidney stones.

5) Intake of calcium supplements should be minimized since this form of calcium is SOMEHOW more likely to remain in the free state and so more likely to bond with free oxalate ions in the kidneys to form the calcium oxalate stones.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59599
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Calcium stones being the most common, dont yell at me take that up with Harvard.
You are an old school jackass.
Here is another one,
Cholesterol has nothing to do with getting heart disease.
Take that in your tuckus and smoke it!
Dingbat,
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Treatment and Prevention of Kidney Stones: An Update

LYNDA FRASSETTO, MD, University of California School of Medicine, San Francisco, California
INGRID KOHLSTADT, MD, MPH, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, Maryland
Am Fam Physician. 2011 Dec 1;84(11):1234-1242.

"...The incidence of nephrolithiasis (kidney stones) is rising worldwide, especially in women and with increasing age. Kidney stones are associated with chronic kidney disease. Preventing recurrence is largely specific to the type of stone (e.g., calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, cystine, struvite [magnesium ammonium phosphate]), and uric acid stones); however, even when the stone cannot be retrieved, urine pH and 24-hour urine assessment provide information about stone-forming factors that can guide prevention. Medications, such as protease inhibitors, antibiotics, and some diuretics, increase the risk of some types of kidney stones, and patients should be counseled about the risks of using these medications. Managing diet, medication use, and nutrient intake can help prevent the formation of kidney stones. Obesity increases the risk of kidney stones. However, weight loss could undermine prevention of kidney stones if associated with a high animal protein intake, laxative abuse, rapid loss of lean tissue, or poor hydration. For prevention of calcium oxalate, cystine, and uric acid stones, urine should be alkalinized by eating a diet high in fruits and vegetables, taking supplemental or prescription citrate, or drinking alkaline mineral waters. For prevention of calcium phosphate and struvite stones, urine should be acidified; cranberry juice or betaine can lower urine pH. Antispasmodic medications, ureteroscopy, and metabolic testing are increasingly being used to augment fluid and pain medications in the acute management of kidney stones...."

---------

HOW CAN URINE BE ALKALINIZED (HIGHER URINE PH)?

For prevention of calcium oxalate, cystine, and uric acid stones, urine should be alkalinized.45,46 Western diets are characteristically high in acid-producing foods, such as grains, dairy products, legumes, and meat. Alkalinizing urine involves eating a diet high in fruits and vegetables, taking supplemental or prescription citrate, or drinking alkaline mineral waters.1

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59600
Oct 5, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
BOTTOM LINE - CALCIUM INTAKE AND KIDNEY STONES:
1) Less calcium intake means more oxalate ions are free to enter the urine and bind with free calcium in solution forming stones.
2) Oxalate ions are more reactive than calcium ions and so the trick is to prevent free oxalate ions from entering the kidneys in excess amounts where they're most likely to bind with free calcium ions to form calcium oxalate stones.
3) Increasing dietary calcium intake would mean that most of the oxalate ions get compounded with the calcium and thus prevent a large number of free oxalate ions from entering the kidney.
4) Sodium intake should be minimized since sodium being more reactive than calcium (as sodium is higher up the activity series) can displace calcium ions from compounds there by causing free calcium ions to enter the kidneys where they can bond with free oxalate ions to form calcium oxalate crystals or kidney stones.
5) Intake of calcium supplements should be minimized since this form of calcium is SOMEHOW more likely to remain in the free state and so more likely to bond with free oxalate ions in the kidneys to form the calcium oxalate stones.
With a western diet, it is almost impossible to be deficient in calcium. SO this information is interesting but not applicable.

AFter a kidney stone episode, most urologists analyze your urine volume and composition. Composition will rule in or rule out metabolic issues. Volume will rule in if you need to drink more water. Furthermore, if you were lucky enoygh to capture the stone, sending it out to the lab is important to see which type it is, as not all are oxalates. A lot of what you read in the pop media (Volunterist for example) is actually CONTRAINDICATIVE if your stone is not an oxalate.

Obviously Volunteerist never had experience with a stone.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59601
Oct 5, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
2) Yet, you MAY increase your risk of developing those painful stones by taking calcium supplements.
personally, I am of the school of thought that we over supplement our diet with vitamins, leading to strange things such as Kidney stones.

Look at any Milk or Cereal or Energy Bar in the US. Maybe if all we had was ONE of these things daily, it would be ok, but in a typical day, one might eat an energy bar, have cereal, and milk, which is 3X the vitamins at the end of the day.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#59602
Oct 5, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
personally, I am of the school of thought that we over supplement our diet with vitamins, leading to strange things such as Kidney stones.
Look at any Milk or Cereal or Energy Bar in the US. Maybe if all we had was ONE of these things daily, it would be ok, but in a typical day, one might eat an energy bar, have cereal, and milk, which is 3X the vitamins at the end of the day.
rabbee: a 9mg supplement of potassium cyanide, should prevent all kidney and gall stones.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59603
Oct 5, 2013
 

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AS you can see, for calcium oxalate stones, it is a bit more complicated than too little or too much calcium. Its more about your bodies disposition to absorb and retain calcium (and oxalates).

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http://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/AJR...

There are five main types of urinary calculi: calcium, magnesium ammonium phosphate, uric acid, cystine, and medications and their metabolites (Table 1).

Calcium-Based Calculi

Calcium-based calculi account for 7080% of urinary tract calculi in the United States [8]. Calcium oxalate calculi are the most common type of calcium-based calculi, comprising 60% of all types of calculi [7]. Calcium-based calculi can measure as high as 1700 HU on CT, with brushite calculi among the most dense, composed of calcium hydrogen phosphate dihydrate [9].

The most significant factor in the formation of calcium-based calculi is hypercalciuria [10]. Renal hypercalciuria is a result of deficient reabsorption of calcium within the renal tubules. Hypercalciuria may also result from excessive intestinal absorption of calcium. Bone demineralization, which may occur in the setting of primary hyperparathyroidism or prolonged immobilization, results in a resorptive hypercalciuria [7]. These processes are interrelated, and an abnormality of calcium metabolism at one site may result in secondary abnormalities at other sites.

Data table
View Larger Version
TABLE 1: Characteristics of Different Types of Urinary Tract Calculi

Other underlying conditions that lead to calcium-based calculus formation include abnormal uric acid metabolism (with or without primary gout), hypocitraturia (which may arise in the setting of chronic diarrhea, distal renal tubular acidosis, and thiazide use), and hyperoxaluria [7].

Hyperoxaluria is a cause of calcium-based calculus formation that can be primary, secondary, or idiopathic. Primary hyperoxaluria is a rare autosomal recessive disease resulting in enzymatic errors that lead to the increased oxidation of glyoxylate to oxalate [11]. More common is secondary hyperoxaluria, which can be seen in the setting of bowel surgery, inflammatory bowel disease, excessive intake of vitamin C, and renal insufficiency.

Read More: http://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/AJR...

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#59604
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

personally, I am of the school of thought that we over supplement our diet with vitamins, leading to strange things such as Kidney stones.
Doesn't ascorbic acid (Vit C - C6H8O6) get converted into oxalic acid (C2H2O4) during metabolism?

So, the urine of those people who consume plenty of vitamin C should contain a high amount of oxalic acid.

Ascorbate is supposed to readily bond with Ca^2+ ions to form calcium-ascorbate thus preventing the formation of calcium oxalate crystals (kidney stones) from free calcium and free oxalate ions in the kidneys that form in supersaturated solution containing excess of highly reactive free oxalate ions and the less reactive free calcium ions.

Perhaps, those with a genetic disposition towards kidney stones of the oxalate kind should cut down on oxalate rich foods and eat less sodium containing compounds and take in the usual amount of calcium.

Maybe upping the intake of vitamin C could help prevent kidney stone formation.

Besides, ascorbic acid serves as a solvent for calcium phosphate stones.

Ok, well.

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#59605
Oct 5, 2013
 
Marriage is a mere sex contract and an institution that promotes companionship between man and woman that has no deeper meaning nor any evolutionary advantage. Sex and procreation do not need marriage to legalize them.

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#59606
Oct 5, 2013
 
What difference does it make if one inserts his penis into a vagina or into the mouth or into the anus? These are mere orifices that have dual uses with pleasure being one of them. Unless, it can be proven, in view of the intimate mind-matter causal connections, that anal sex in heterosexual or in homosexual relationships damages the brain wiring or that it can upset nerve currents or that it results in dysfunctional behavior there is no valid reason to abstain from anal sex. All those species indulging in it can simply carry on.

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#59607
Oct 5, 2013
 
Everything in existence is an aspect of mind-matter!

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#59608
Oct 5, 2013
 
Religion and marriage are redundant institutions. Self-inquiry leading to self-realization will make greater inroads in coming years as people become more introspective and learn more about the intimate causal links between mind-matter that constitutes the reality. Sexual procreation is on its way out in the light of recent advances in asexual reproductive technologies. A little more perfecting and sex will mostly become a recreational outlet while invitro or cloned designer babies will become the common practice of the day.

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#59609
Oct 5, 2013
 
Time for my medicines. Feeling a bit feverish, eyesight is slightly blurred and my nerves are beginning to shake. Good night.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#59610
Oct 5, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't ascorbic acid (Vit C - C6H8O6) get converted into oxalic acid (C2H2O4) during metabolism?
So, the urine of those people who consume plenty of vitamin C should contain a high amount of oxalic acid.
Ascorbate is supposed to readily bond with Ca^2+ ions to form calcium-ascorbate thus preventing the formation of calcium oxalate crystals (kidney stones) from free calcium and free oxalate ions in the kidneys that form in supersaturated solution containing excess of highly reactive free oxalate ions and the less reactive free calcium ions.
Perhaps, those with a genetic disposition towards kidney stones of the oxalate kind should cut down on oxalate rich foods and eat less sodium containing compounds and take in the usual amount of calcium.
Maybe upping the intake of vitamin C could help prevent kidney stone formation.
Besides, ascorbic acid serves as a solvent for calcium phosphate stones.
Ok, well.
It appears to be the opposite. Perhaps the idea is that excessive C keeps the oxalate in solution, where it can srystalize, and interferes with its absorption.

"....More common is secondary hyperoxaluria, which can be seen in the setting of bowel surgery, inflammatory bowel disease, excessive intake of vitamin C, and renal insufficiency...."
Voluntarist

United States

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#59611
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
With a western diet, it is almost impossible to be deficient in calcium. SO this information is interesting but not applicable.
AFter a kidney stone episode, most urologists analyze your urine volume and composition. Composition will rule in or rule out metabolic issues. Volume will rule in if you need to drink more water. Furthermore, if you were lucky enoygh to capture the stone, sending it out to the lab is important to see which type it is, as not all are oxalates. A lot of what you read in the pop media (Volunterist for example) is actually CONTRAINDICATIVE if your stone is not an oxalate.
Obviously Volunteerist never had experience with a stone.
You are missing two things

A) how do you know how much calcium you actually need?
B) what yoi eat and what you absorb could be different, Americans are big on gluten which can cause absorption problems.
Voluntarist

United States

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#59612
Oct 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
personally, I am of the school of thought that we over supplement our diet with vitamins, leading to strange things such as Kidney stones.
Look at any Milk or Cereal or Energy Bar in the US. Maybe if all we had was ONE of these things daily, it would be ok, but in a typical day, one might eat an energy bar, have cereal, and milk, which is 3X the vitamins at the end of the day.
Well my friend that flys in the face of testimony I have heard of people getting on the other side of diabetes, heart disease, degenerative disc disease, obesity, cancer , and marked improvements in a quadriplegic, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, cataracts etc... all through supplementation.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59613
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Well my friend that flys in the face of testimony I have heard of people getting on the other side of diabetes, heart disease, degenerative disc disease, obesity, cancer , and marked improvements in a quadriplegic, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, cataracts etc... all through supplementation.
Testimony? Thats part of the problem.

Give me data thru studies.

Again, if you read my post, I am not against supplementation, just excessive supplementation.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#59614
Oct 5, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are missing two things
A) how do you know how much calcium you actually need?
B) what yoi eat and what you absorb could be different, Americans are big on gluten which can cause absorption problems.
You might not realize it, but you are supporting my view.

Its not about the amount of calcium you eat, its about your ability to utilize it, AND the chemistry of the urine which keeps it in and out of solution (i.e. its alkalinity and its concentration of reagents such as oxalate and citrate). Both of those factors can be somewhat independent of calcium intake, which contradicts your earlier view that kidney stones (oxalate stones) are caused by not enough calcium in your diet.

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