Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59219 Sep 30, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
He couldn't be all that influential if The American Jewish Committee as well as the Jewish Anti-Defamation League ALL condemned his statements. Now compare his quotes to those of PROMINENT Christian evangelicals and I think you'll find there is no comparison. The Christian Evangelicals are, by far, much more venomous in there rhetoric and far more influential and far-reaching (in terms of numbers).
Here's a little exercise for you, Hugh. Count the number of Jews that take this clown seriously. Now count the number of Christians that take ANY ONE of these top 25 influential evangelicals seriously ( http://content.time.com/time/specials/package... ). Tell me which have greater influence, Hugh.
Perspective, son. Perspective.
COR---He couldn't be all that influential if The American Jewish Committee as well as the Jewish Anti-Defamation League ALL condemned his statements.

HughBe--- Are you really saying that if Yosef was INFLUENTIAL then the groups mentioned, by you, would lap their tails and say nothing or they would have SUPPORTED Yosef's words? These are the meaning of your words.

Again, tell me about the SPHERE of influence of Yosef. How SMALL is the Sephari movement in Israel and elsewhere?

Tell me about the "Shas political party in the Israeli "

Keep in mind that Yosef has INFLUENCE both on the political front and the RELIGIOUS one.

Deal with the rest of the outstanding matters, thanks.

"Ovadia Yosef, born as Ovadia Yosef or Abdullah Youssef in his native language, is the former Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL, a recognised Talmudic scholar and foremost halakhic authority"
"He CURRENTLY serves as the spiritual LEADER of the Shas POLITICAL party in the Israeli PALIAMENT"
Eric

Elk Grove Village, IL

#59220 Sep 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
He is head of Shas. That is a political party located in Israel, not world Jewry as a whole.
David Duke was the Republican, Christian elected representative of Louisiana. Does that mean that all his Republican, Christian constituents hold his anti-Black, anti-Jew and anti-Catholic beliefs? I guess Hugh believes so.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59221 Sep 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Cult of R---And here you are, Hugh, harping on the ramblings of ONE bigoted Jew.
HughBe--- Let us get the proper PERSPECTIVE, now. I am NOT talking about any JEW. I am QUOTING the UTTERANCES of a CHIEF RELIGIOUS leader of Judaism. I have noted that you have FAILED to tell me about his followings e.g. number of followers, their role in Israel and elsewhere and his sphere of INFLUENCE in Judaism . WHY is this so?
In addition, I gave SEVERAL quotes from OTHER RELIGIOUS leaders of Judaism.
COR---"God hates F@gs"
HughBe--- Give Links and tell me what percentage of the over 30,000 Christian denominations teach such things. Who are these nobodies?
What % of the over 2 BILLION Christians know about them or follow them?.00005%
COR---"Thank God for [Hurricane] Katrina."
"Thank God for dead soldiers."
HughBe--- As above.
COR---"We preach hate because the Bible preaches hate."
HughBe--- Give link. No CHRISTIAN can preach HATE. All who claim to be Christians and teach and preach such things are SPAWNS of Lucifer and has no part in Christianity.
The PILLARS of Christianity are LOVE for God and Love for your ENEMIES etc.
Finally, give links and quantify the influence that these American PSYCHOTICS have on Christians worldwide.
Also tell me about the WORLDWIDE influence of CHIEF rabbi OVADIA Yosef.
Again, I am telling YOU that NO Christian can HATE anyone. People can claim to be Christians but they ARE NOT if they don't follow the teachings of Jesus the Christ.
1. Sorry Hugh, but two can play the Socratic game. So tell me, who has influence over more people, the one or two Jews that you have quoted, or any one of the top 25 evangelicals I have referenced for you?

2. If someone self-identifies as Christian, then they are a Christian. You don't get to play the "No True Scotsman" fallacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman ) whenever you come across someone that makes your side look bad and defeats your argument.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59222 Sep 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
...All of that aside, I want you to know that your attempted parallel does NOT change the TRUTH of these words, "We are witnessing a spreading EPIDEMIC of RACISM and xenophobia, and we should act firmly."
You must not be paying much attention to American politics if you don't think one particular political party of ours (that just so happens to be overtaken by the Evangelicals) is "spreading an EPIDEMIC of RACISM and xenophobia".... The parallel stands.
HughBe wrote:
You see,COR, there are many who are not dishonest and will call a spade a spade. God bless them and ALL who love TRUTH.
Except when these "many people" (Hugh) obsess on one group (Jews/Rabbis) and completely ignore the wrongs committed on their own side (Evangelicals).

Try cleaning house first, then you might have a moral leg to stand on. Until then, F-off...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#59223 Sep 30, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh sure. You get to go off and harmonize with nature while I'm left here alone to fend off the crazies. Tag, you're it...
LOL....it wasnt all bliss and nature spirits, there was altitude to deal with and a trip to the ER as a consequence. Plus I got back in the middle of last night in time to be swamped by work.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59224 Sep 30, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>David Duke was the Republican, Christian elected representative of Louisiana. Does that mean that all his Republican, Christian constituents hold his anti-Black, anti-Jew and anti-Catholic beliefs? I guess Hugh believes so.
And lets not forget the famous, and INFLUENTIAL United States Senator - Jesse Helms.

Here some interesting facts on Jesse Helms. And, of course since he is so INFLUENTIAL, and using Hugh logic, then surely they apply to ALL Republicans, Evangelicals, etc...

Views on minorities
Helms opposed busing, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. He once referred to the University of North Carolina (UNC) as the "University of Negroes and Communists".

Helms called the Civil Rights Act of 1964 "the single most dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced in the Congress", and sponsored legislation to either extend it to the entire country or scrap it altogether.[163]

Helms reminded voters that he tried, with a 16-day filibuster, to stop the Senate from approving a federal holiday to honor Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,[262] although he had fewer reservations about establishing a North Carolina state holiday for King.[263]

He has been accused of being a segregationist by some political observers and scholars, such as USA Today's DeWayne Wickham who wrote that Helms "subtly carried the torch of white supremacy" from Ben Tillman.[264][265][266][267]

In 1996 the Department of Justice admonished Helms's 1990 campaign for mailing 125,000 postcards to households in predominantly African-American precincts warning them (incorrectly) that they could go to jail if they had not updated their addresses on the electoral register since moving.[268]

Helms opposed "every piece of civil rights and affirmative action legislation" and blocked "black judges from being considered for the federal bench".[263] In 1982, he voted against the extension of the Voting Rights Act.[263][263] Helms opposed busing, supported the "racist apartheid regime of South Africa", and "for years blocked attempts by President Bill Clinton to appoint a Black judge on the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals".[263] Only when Helms's own judicial choices were threatened with blocking did attorney Roger Gregory of Richmond, Virginia get confirmed. Helms also tried to block the nomination of Carol Moseley Braun, the first African-American female senator, as ambassador to New Zealand.[263]

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#59225 Sep 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
COR---He couldn't be all that influential if The American Jewish Committee as well as the Jewish Anti-Defamation League ALL condemned his statements.
HughBe--- Are you really saying that if Yosef was INFLUENTIAL then the groups mentioned, by you, would lap their tails and say nothing or they would have SUPPORTED Yosef's words? These are the meaning of your words.
Again, tell me about the SPHERE of influence of Yosef. How SMALL is the Sephari movement in Israel and elsewhere?
Tell me about the "Shas political party in the Israeli "
Keep in mind that Yosef has INFLUENCE both on the political front and the RELIGIOUS one.
Deal with the rest of the outstanding matters, thanks.
"Ovadia Yosef, born as Ovadia Yosef or Abdullah Youssef in his native language, is the former Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL, a recognised Talmudic scholar and foremost halakhic authority"
"He CURRENTLY serves as the spiritual LEADER of the Shas POLITICAL party in the Israeli PALIAMENT"
He is the head of an ETHNIC political party. He has little following outside of Israel.

There is also a Communist Party in Israel, and a Marijuana Party, bot of which either have direct or coalition representation in the parliament. Being a parliament member doesnt mean you rule the world.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59226 Sep 30, 2013
Jesse Helms

Religious views
"Atheism and socialism – or liberalism, which tends in the same direction – are inseparable entities: when you have men who no longer believe that God is in charge of human affairs, you have men attempting to take the place of God by means of the superstate. The all-provident government, which these liberals constantly invoke, is the modern-day version of Baal."
—Jesse Helms, When Free Men Shall Stand[274]

Helms was well known for his strong religious views.[275] He played a leading role in the development of the Christian right,[274] and was a founding member of the Moral Majority in 1979. Although a Southern Baptist from his upbringing in a strictly literalist, but hawkishly secularist,[276] environment, when in Raleigh, Helms worshipped at the moderate Hayes-Barton Baptist Church,[274] where he had served as a deacon and Sunday school teacher before his election to the Senate.[275]

Helms was close to fellow North Carolinian Billy Graham (whom he considered a personal hero),[277] as well as Charles Stanley, Pat Robertson,[278] and Jerry Falwell, whose Liberty University dedicated its Jesse Helms School of Government to Helms. Helms helped found Camp Willow Run, an interdenominational Christian summer camp, sitting on its board of directors until his death, and was a Grand Orator of the Grand Lodge of freemasons in North Carolina.[275]

Equating leftism and atheism, Helms argued that the downfall of the USA was due to loss of Christian faith,[275] and often stated, "I think God is giving this country one more chance to save itself".[274][279] He believed that the morality of capitalism was assured in the Bible, through the Parable of the Talents.[274] He believed, writing in When Free Men Shall Stand, that "such utopian slogans as Peace with Honor, Minimum Wage, Racial Equality, Women's Liberation, National Health Insurance, Civil Liberty" are ploys by which to divide humanity "as sons of God".[274]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms#View...
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#59227 Sep 30, 2013
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, just you.
rabbee: well i am the only one, on this message thread and others. that does not have any new testament, that everyone else seems to have.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59228 Sep 30, 2013
Tell me Hugh - why did Jesse Helms oppose busing, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Study his biography, and tell me how INFLUENTIAL this man was in American politics as well as within Evangelical circles.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59229 Sep 30, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Sorry Hugh, but two can play the Socratic game. So tell me, who has influence over more people, the one or two Jews that you have quoted, or any one of the top 25 evangelicals I have referenced for you?
2. If someone self-identifies as Christian, then they are a Christian. You don't get to play the "No True Scotsman" fallacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman ) whenever you come across someone that makes your side look bad and defeats your argument.
1. You need to desist with this JEW reference when speaking with me. I am talking about JUDAISM a RELIGION. I am NOT talking about people who do not belong to Judaism. I am NOT talking about Jews who are CHRISTIANS or Jews who are into Eastern religions etc.

2. I did NOT quote TWO sources.I quoted many and you can get more.

3. The EPIDEMIC quote was from a SECULAR Jewish source.

4. Regardless of how you and others feel, Jesus and the bible are very clear as to who is and is NOT a Christian. FEELINGS are irrelevant.

5. If you want to be a Christian I shall tell you how to become one.

6. Here is a first step. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, the Christ.

7. HATING is TOTALLY contrary to Christianity. NO ONE who HATES others will be REGARDED as a Christian, by GOD Almighty. Take that as Gospel and waste no more time with your ill-informed position or agenda driven position.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59230 Sep 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
He is head of Shas. That is a political party located in Israel, not world Jewry as a whole.
Please address the questions and other comments.

Who is the man? What sect of Judaism was he the HEAD of? Tell me about the scope of his influence and that of his sect. Explain the quotes below and expand on them by way of more information.

Hint:" Ovadia Yosef, born as Ovadia Yosef or Abdullah Youssef in his native language, is the former Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL, a recognised Talmudic scholar and foremost halakhic authority"
"He CURRENTLY serves as the spiritual leader of the Shas political party in the Israeli PALIAMENT"
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59231 Sep 30, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
You must not be paying much attention to American politics if you don't think one particular political party of ours (that just so happens to be overtaken by the Evangelicals) is "spreading an EPIDEMIC of RACISM and xenophobia".... The parallel stands.
<quoted text>
Except when these "many people" (Hugh) obsess on one group (Jews/Rabbis) and completely ignore the wrongs committed on their own side (Evangelicals).
Try cleaning house first, then you might have a moral leg to stand on. Until then, F-off...
Non-responsive.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#59232 Sep 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL....it wasnt all bliss and nature spirits, there was altitude to deal with and a trip to the ER as a consequence. Plus I got back in the middle of last night in time to be swamped by work.
Frostbite
Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS)
High Altitude Cerebral Edema (HACE)
High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE)
Hypoxia

Which one got you? I think I'll stick with the beach vacations.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59233 Sep 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
He is the head of an ETHNIC political party. He has little following outside of Israel.
There is also a Communist Party in Israel, and a Marijuana Party, bot of which either have direct or coalition representation in the parliament. Being a parliament member doesnt mean you rule the world.
Explain the meaning and significance of "Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL"

How big is the Sephardi group as a RELIGIOUS group in Israel? Compare it in terms of size and influence to other religious groups .

What is the meaning of Sephardi?

What is the size of all those who would be classified as Sephardi?

What is the Global influence of Yosef? Are you saying that he has no influence outside of Israel?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#59234 Sep 30, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
You must not be paying much attention to American politics if you don't think one particular political party of ours (that just so happens to be overtaken by the Evangelicals) is "spreading an EPIDEMIC of RACISM and xenophobia".... The parallel stands.
<quoted text>
Except when these "many people" (Hugh) obsess on one group (Jews/Rabbis) and completely ignore the wrongs committed on their own side (Evangelicals).
Try cleaning house first, then you might have a moral leg to stand on. Until then, F-off...
Was the source LYING when it said, "We are witnessing a spreading EPIDEMIC of RACISM and xenophobia, and we should act firmly."?

Note those are not the words of Yosef.
Mykeisha

Houston, TX

#59235 Sep 30, 2013
I've never met a Jew so how could I make that assessment.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#59236 Sep 30, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>

I wish you well, Joel and I have to be honest even though this may sound brutal to you.

All the symptoms that you have described, tell me that you need to get your head examined by Neurology specialists.

You may have a tumour in the brain and we have experts here, who can take it out. Tumours inside the head can cause all those problems that you mentioned.

You can come to Singapore. I can recommend you the best surgeon, who happens to be a very close friend of mine. The good news is that he has never lost any patient.

It has nothing to do with occult attacks. It is definitely something wrong with your head, Joel.

Best wishes

BMZ
Thank you, BMZ, for your good wishes.

No, there's no brain tumor.

The MRI scans have ruled that out.

BTW, I know, through Psychic intuition and direct Yogic experiences, far more about the subtle as well as the gross aspects of the Mind-Matter mechanism than all the intellectuals, psi researchers and scientists put together. I simply laugh at their naivete.

I know what I am talking about where the malevolent force attacks on me are concerned....these force attacks are creating the illnesses...

Well, let me find out how far can medicine/surgery suppress the adverse symptoms but the life-threatening conditions that manifest in me will GO only if that man stops targeting me, or I'll have to take steps to get rid of him...

I will be leaving for Europe for medical treatment as and when the doctors tell me and I guess it will be quite soon.

I'll be gone for months once I leave India.

I am suffering and am very unwell at times which is quite often but am enduring all the trouble and being an orphan and having no emotional support from others is disturbing.

I tell you one can live without material luxuries but to live without love and support is a terrible thing and that too at such a young age.

The Higher Force is keeping me from completely collapsing but its descent into me is not sufficient considering my lack of receptivity to help me fully.

Best Regards.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#59237 Sep 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Please address the questions and other comments.
Who is the man? What sect of Judaism was he the HEAD of? Tell me about the scope of his influence and that of his sect. Explain the quotes below and expand on them by way of more information.
Hint:" Ovadia Yosef, born as Ovadia Yosef or Abdullah Youssef in his native language, is the former Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL, a recognised Talmudic scholar and foremost halakhic authority"
"He CURRENTLY serves as the spiritual leader of the Shas political party in the Israeli PALIAMENT"
I did address it. As usual you refuse to accept it.

Shas is an ETHNIC party, its not a religious sect. Sephardim are an ethnic group. Do you understand this now?(Second attempt)

Furthermore, both Eric and COR have explained the difference between notoriety and actual influence. In other words, influce of whom? Religious sephardim WITHIN Israel. And not even ALL religious sephardim. SOME religious sephardim. Not even all the mizrachim. So what?
Eric

Elk Grove Village, IL

#59238 Sep 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Please address the questions and other comments.
Who is the man? What sect of Judaism was he the HEAD of? Tell me about the scope of his influence and that of his sect. Explain the quotes below and expand on them by way of more information.
Hint:" Ovadia Yosef, born as Ovadia Yosef or Abdullah Youssef in his native language, is the former Sephardi CHIEF Rabbi of ISRAEL, a recognised Talmudic scholar and foremost halakhic authority"
"He CURRENTLY serves as the spiritual leader of the Shas political party in the Israeli PALIAMENT"
has absolutely no influence in US where Frijoles and I live. In fact, I never heard of him.

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