Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71944 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53611 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
No Son, since I do NOT celebrate Christmas I do NOT give gifts not even to my children.
Coal in THAT stocking.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53612 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Listen well, DECEIVER. In the SANE world those who REJECT the idea of God or gods are NOT religious.
In the RELIGION called JUDAISM there are SECULAR Judahites but this is a "SPECIAL" case as nowhere else in the world you shall find such MADNESS of a SECULAR subset of a RELIGIOUS group.
Does Former call himself a SECULAR Christian?
If NOT, who do YOU think you are to label him so?
Why do you allow the LEGIONS within you to dominate you to the point of TOTAL STUPIDITY?
You are just being plain IDIOTIC and self-deceiving. I am guaranteeing you this that your argument makes sense ONLY to your fellow DECEIVED BLIND DUMB BRAINLESS sheep.
Who said anything about rejecting God?

We were talking about rejecting the story of Christmas.

If you call me a Judahite, i call you a n_gg_er. Remember?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53613 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What a short memory you have.
No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)
By all accounts, he was an interesting man, perhaps a mystic of some sort. I've even known Jews who believe he existed.
Not the same thing as him being the son of god. Or there being a god.
OK? Next.
Former---No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.

HughBe--- My dear pencil point, you should not use words that you don't know the meaning of, your gross stupidity is forgiven.

Next, YOU questioned the existence of Jesus and that is why I spoke about history making mention of Him.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53614 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Hughbes attempt to define TRUE Christian is just as flawed as his attempt to define the TRUE Jew
HughBe--- Listen well, anus. JEWS are a RACE of people. Recall the linearity that you spoke of perhaps less that 24 hours ago? Linearity has to do with BIOLOGY.
So linearity is NOT applicable to Christianity given that Christianity is a RELIGION and is not based on RACE or genes.
So with or without any RELIGION a person is a JEW. A JEW is a JEW without JUDAISM. The GENES of the JEWS do NOT change even if their FAITH changes for the better.
The JEWS existed long before JUDAISM and shall exist long AFTER Judaism.
Without a belief in Jesus a person is NEVER a Christian and this is NOT a private interpretation. Note boy, a belief in Jesus is NOT sufficient to make you a Christian and that is a FACT.
Do NOT define Christians as you don't even know who is a Jew and YOU claim to be one.
Are you interested in becoming a Christian?
So funny. If you scroll back to my earliest comments - I said I was humoring you by following your own line of logic

Which you now reject

This entire side point is a straw position anyhow. The bigger question is how a Christian can reject the Christmas story as a literalism but still be a Christian.

And I easily won that discussion a few posts ago.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53615 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Actually the jury is still out on even that one
HughBe--- The Sanhedrin being out does not change the fact that history makes mention of Jesus. Start with Flavius Josephus. Have you heard of him?
Dont shoot the messenger. All I can do is report on the controversy. If you have issue, argue with the professional historians, not me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53616 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I believe that you embraced WW11 as it was all planned, based on a document that was once in a British Museum.
Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.

My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Justifying mediocrity.
HughBe--- Full IDIOT, we were talking about bad techniques and being an IDIOT your position is that bad techniques are all bad.
On the other hand I am telling you via ONE example alone that bad techniques don't have to be ineffective and I used the case of hurdling. Your problem is your inability to think and to compound matters when things are explained to you the capacity to understand TRUTHFUL and simple things is absent.
All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?

thank you, I accept your apology
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--A man who will speak in homophobic rants only because of some ancient writings written by those UNKNOWN and long dead.
HughBe--- Is Shakespeare alive and KNOWN to YOU? Do people speak and act and learn about him and his works?
William is not alive but well known, and well read.

He was a playwright, not a god.

What is your silly point?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Tell me about any car company in the way that I have outlined below and do so WITHOUT researching the information.
1.the ADMINISTRATION
2. FINANCIAL position,
3. HR policies
4. MORALE in the company
5. PAY packages
Why? Are you planning on investing?

I have lost your point if you ever had one.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53617 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Do NOT define Christians as you don't even know who is a Jew and YOU claim to be one.
Once again, the NO TRUE SCOTTSMAN fallacy

You are having a bad day - want to try again tomorrow?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53618 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What a short memory you have.
No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)
By all accounts, he was an interesting man, perhaps a mystic of some sort. I've even known Jews who believe he existed.
Not the same thing as him being the son of god. Or there being a god.
OK? Next.
Former now---I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)

HughBe---Compare that with his Post 53480 written 23 hours ago.

POST--

HughBe --Simplifying, Christians who celebrate Christmas do so because they are celebrating a REAL EVENT and not an imaginary events as in the case of Purim.

Former---a real event? Not so.

(HughBe--My guess is that NOT SO is an acknowledgment)
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53619 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont shoot the messenger. All I can do is report on the controversy. If you have issue, argue with the professional historians, not me.
Controversy among Judahites but NOT in the rest of the world.

Not even Josephus a Jew had any doubts but the pharaohs of the 21st century have come up with evidence to prove his non-existence.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53620 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.
My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!
<quoted text>
All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?
thank you, I accept your apology
<quoted text>
William is not alive but well known, and well read.
He was a playwright, not a god.
What is your silly point?
<quoted text>
Why? Are you planning on investing?
I have lost your point if you ever had one.
HughBe--- I believe that you embraced WW11 as it was all planned, based on a document that was once in a British Museum.

Former--Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.

HughBe--- Did you remember that when you spoke? NO, it was one of those senior moments, I guess.

Former--My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!

HughBe--- I accept your words as true and believe that the shape carries the appeal for you.

Former---Justifying mediocrity.

HughBe--- Full IDIOT, we were talking about bad techniques and being an IDIOT your position is that bad techniques are all bad.
On the other hand I am telling you via ONE example alone that bad techniques don't have to be ineffective and I used the case of hurdling. Your problem is your inability to think and to compound matters when things are explained to you the capacity to understand TRUTHFUL and simple things is absent.

Former---All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?

HughBe--- On the face of it I shall say correct. This does not change the fact that people with poor techniques can still be effective and very successful. I have seen it.

What is regarded as good now can at a later date be regarded as not so good . One example the high jump technique.

Former--thank you, I accept your apology

HughBe--- You are welcome.

Former--A man who will speak in homophobic rants only because of some ancient writings written by those UNKNOWN and long dead.

HughBe--- Is Shakespeare alive and KNOWN to YOU? Do people speak and act and learn about him and his works?

Former---William is not alive but well known, and well read.

HughBe--- Jesus is BETTER known and READ.

Former---He was a playwright, not a god.

HughBe--- His shortcomings.

Former---What is your silly point?

HughBe--- It is silly only because you don't know what the hell you are talking about. On what basis were you responding all along?

How long have you been at sea?

HughBe--- Tell me about any car company in the way that I have outlined below and do so WITHOUT researching the information.
1.the ADMINISTRATION
2. FINANCIAL position,
3. HR policies
4. MORALE in the company
5. PAY packages

Former---Why? Are you planning on investing?

HughBe--- Because it will highlight to you that you do not know the maker of the car. YOU know about a car and from that you can make statements about the maker.

I know about the world and from it I can tell about the Maker.

Former---I have lost your point if you ever had one.

HughBe--- Nasty habit of yours.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53621 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
So funny. If you scroll back to my earliest comments - I said I was humoring you by following your own line of logic
Which you now reject
This entire side point is a straw position anyhow. The bigger question is how a Christian can reject the Christmas story as a literalism but still be a Christian.
And I easily won that discussion a few posts ago.
So with or without any RELIGION a person is a JEW. A JEW is a JEW without JUDAISM. The GENES of the JEWS do NOT change even if their FAITH changes for the better.

The JEWS existed long before JUDAISM and shall exist long AFTER Judaism.

Without a belief in Jesus a person is NEVER a Christian and this is NOT a private interpretation. Note boy, a belief in Jesus is NOT sufficient to make you a Christian and that is a FACT.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53622 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
HughBe--- YOU were asked about celebrating Christmas and other CHRISTMAS related questions. In answering such questions you inserted BS that suggested that you attended Christian functions to the exclusion of other functions.
Yes and no. I do attend Christian function but still not sure you thought that meant "to the exclusion of other functions."

I can chew gum and still walk straight at the same time.

Guess I'm a multitasker.
HughBe wrote:
Former--My own wedding was civil ceremony, performed by a Justice of the Peace. No church.
HughBe--- So, in a CONTEXT that YOU are being called a SECULAR Christian why did you give your typical UNBALANCED and MISLEADING comments about Christian weddings etc?
Everything I said was true.

What is your question?

Is it confusing to you that we chose one type of wedding for ourselves while still accepting the choice of our friends and family?
HughBe wrote:
Former--But I have been to all kinds of weddings, even Jewish.
HughBe--- So why the SILENCE? why the FOCUS on Christians?
That was the issue I was asked to address.

Specifically how I observe Christmas. I chose to expand my response. Was this wrong or deceptive in your view?
HughBe wrote:
Former---In our country, when we say "we" that includes "me."
HughBe--- It must be a Spanish speaking country because English people understood from my words that the WE was inclusive of you. What is still missing in your understanding is that nobody was asking YOU about others, YOU were being asked about YOURSELF, legions.
In our country the observance of Christmas is a family experience.

A rich and rewarding time to catch up and spend time with people we care about.

You should try it.
HughBe wrote:
Former---We are not home for Christmas. We are at the home of my wife's parents
HughBe--- How does that prevent you from erecting a tree at home and decorating your home? The trappings are not there for a DAY.
No but we choose not to.

Frankly, Christmas tress are expensive and a real pain in the ass to buy, bring home, set up, maintain and then get rid of later in January.

My 84 year old father in law keeps saying every year will be his last but he still does it - mostly for the kids I guess.

We do minor decorations around our house - but no tree.
HughBe wrote:
Former-- But we love Christmas and all the traditions and trappings very much - tree, gifts, stockings (I have one with my name on it made by my wife!) and we go to church on Christmas eve.
HughBe--- So do you buy gifts and wish everybody a merry Christmas although you do not believe in it?
Yes and I mean it.

I wish Jews a happy new year and peace and drink "to life."

Why wouldn't I?
HughBe wrote:
Former---Not at all. for the time of contemplation, the sense of community, experiencing appreciation for what we have, to give to the poor, to sing, to light a candle, all good stuff
HughBe--- Do you have any organization that is not RELIGIOUS that you could "give to the poor" ?
Yes and we do.

Again, multitasking. You should try it.
HughBe wrote:
Why do you an ATHEISTS choose a Church to do these good? Recall you did not even get married in a Church.
It's all part of the experience. A family and community event.

It's not even a Catholic church - Prezby/Protestant.

I get the distinct impression you would not welcome me to your church. Or give me a gift at Christmas.

Why do you not give our kids gifts at Christmas?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53623 May 28, 2013
YOUR kids
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53624 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said anything about rejecting God?
We were talking about rejecting the story of Christmas.
If you call me a Judahite, i call you a n_gg_er. Remember?
Frijoles---Who said anything about rejecting God?

HughBe--- You are not really understanding so let me simplify for you.

Atheists REJECT God and Former is an ATHEIST and so non-RELIGIOUS.

==========

Listen well, DECEIVER. In the SANE world those who REJECT the idea of God or gods are NOT religious.

In the RELIGION called JUDAISM there are SECULAR Judahites but this is a "SPECIAL" case as nowhere else in the world you shall find such MADNESS of a SECULAR subset of a RELIGIOUS group.

Does Former call himself a SECULAR Christian?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53625 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
No Son, since I do NOT celebrate Christmas I do NOT give gifts not even to my children.

I thought you were a Christian.

So why no Christmas?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53626 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Next, YOU questioned the existence of Jesus and that is why I spoke about history making mention of Him.
I don't believe I said that.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53627 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former now---I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)
HughBe---Compare that with his Post 53480 written 23 hours ago.
POST--
HughBe --Simplifying, Christians who celebrate Christmas do so because they are celebrating a REAL EVENT and not an imaginary events as in the case of Purim.
Former---a real event? Not so.
(HughBe--My guess is that NOT SO is an acknowledgment)
The "real event" that you refer to is not the birth of a future carpenter but the virgin birth of a deity you moron!

THAT is the event I was questioning.

Clean the crap out of your little brain.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53628 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I believe that you embraced WW11 as it was all planned, based on a document that was once in a British Museum.
Former--Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.
HughBe--- Did you remember that when you spoke? NO, it was one of those senior moments, I guess.
It was one the better wars. Certainly the biggest.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!
HughBe--- I accept your words as true and believe that the shape carries the appeal for you.
Do you not know what it is?

I encourage you to google it.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?
HughBe--- On the face of it I shall say correct. This does not change the fact that people with poor techniques can still be effective and very successful. I have seen it.
Ok - we agree. Big kiss.

Did you enjoy the movie "Cool Runnings"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Runnings

Good movie.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---William is not alive but well known, and well read.
HughBe--- Jesus is BETTER known and READ.
Former---He was a playwright, not a god.
HughBe--- His shortcomings.
Former---What is your silly point?
HughBe--- It is silly only because you don't know what the hell you are talking about. On what basis were you responding all along?
How long have you been at sea?
We enjoy one as a writer, the other as a mystic who preached love and peace much like MLK. Good men both. Not gods though. Keep it reasonable.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Why? Are you planning on investing?
HughBe--- Because it will highlight to you that you do not know the maker of the car. YOU know about a car and from that you can make statements about the maker.
I know about the world and from it I can tell about the Maker.
A better example would be seeing a painting or sculpture and wondering about the artist. Or a novel.

Most writing they say is autobiographical.

But I have no idea that a sentient being created all of this.

I am ok with not knowing and not speculating.

That is the difference between you and me.

Or me and any believer.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53629 May 28, 2013
HughBe--- YOU were asked about celebrating Christmas and other CHRISTMAS related questions.

Former---Yes.....

HughBe--- Accepted.

Former--My own wedding was civil ceremony, performed by a Justice of the Peace. No church.

HughBe--- So, in a CONTEXT that YOU are being called a SECULAR Christian why did you give your typical UNBALANCED and MISLEADING comments about Christian weddings etc?

Former---Everything I said was true.

HughBe--- ditto and your words were unbalanced and so misleading.

Former---What is your question?

HughBe--- pathetic

Former--But I have been to all kinds of weddings, even Jewish.

HughBe--- So why the SILENCE? why the FOCUS on Christians?

Former---That was the issue I was asked to address.

HughBe--- No son, you were not asked about Christian weddings etc. you were being asked about CHRISTMAS. You misled the simple Frijoles.

Former---Specifically how I observe Christmas. I chose to expand my response. Was this wrong or deceptive in your view?

HughBe--- YOU FAILED to answer the simple questions and the things said would mislead.

Former---In our country, when we say "we" that includes "me."

HughBe--- It must be a Spanish speaking country because English people understood from my words that the WE was inclusive of you. What is still missing in your understanding is that nobody was asking YOU about others, YOU were being asked about YOURSELF, legions.

HughBe---In our country the observance of Christmas is a family experience.
A rich and rewarding time to catch up and spend time with people we care about.
You should try it.

HughBe--- None of what you have said means that YOU celebrate it. What it means is that it is used as an occasion to SOCIALIZE with family and not that the birth of Jesus means anything to you.

Former---We are not home for Christmas. We are at the home of my wife's parents

HughBe--- How does that prevent you from erecting a tree at home and decorating your home? The trappings are not there for a DAY.

Former--No but we choose not to.
Frankly, Christmas tress are expensive and a real pain in the ass to buy, bring home, set up, maintain and then get rid of later in January.

HughBe--- Let us suppose that cost was not an issue and there was no pain in your favourite place would you set up the tree etc?

If not, why not?

Former--My 84 year old father in law keeps saying every year will be his last but he still does it - mostly for the kids I guess.

HughBe--- Surely you must appreciate it as his son-in-law.

Former---We do minor decorations around our house - but no tree.

HughBe--- Your words are unclear given what you have said above. Explain OUR.

HughBe--- So do you buy gifts and wish everybody a merry Christmas although you do not believe in it?

Former--Yes and I mean it.

HughBe--- In my mind you celebrate Christmas. You buy gifts, go to church, set up decorations, wish people a merry Christmas, go to family gatherings.

What else is necessary for you to call it OBSERVING Christmas?

I(HughBe) do NONE of what you do.

Former---I wish Jews a happy new year and peace and drink "to life."

HughBe--- Do the same to the Muslims and the Hindus and everybody.

HughBe--- Do you have any organization that is not RELIGIOUS that you could "give to the poor" ?

Former--Yes and we do.

HughBe--Why do you an ATHEISTS choose a Church to do these good? Recall you did not even get married in a Church.

Former--It's all part of the experience. A family and community event.

It's not even a Catholic church -

HughBe--- Why make it a religious one? You should have done the same for your wedding as you say,"It's all part of the experience"

Former--I get the distinct impression you would not welcome me to your church. Or give me a gift at Christmas.

Why do you not give our kids gifts at Christmas?

HughBe--- I DO NOT believe in and CELEBRATE Christmas and that is why.

Are YOU a secular Christian?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53630 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you were a Christian.
So why no Christmas?
1.Lesson---Not all Christians celebrate Christmas.

2.Are you one of the fellows who has repeatedly asks me for the name of my religion?

If yes and I KNOW that it is YES, from where did your thought originate?

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