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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53246 May 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Just look at the Protestants and the Catholic Irish killing each other, blowing one another up, in Northern Ireland. Maybe not as much recently but quite a history of violence. Not homogenous by any means.
Definitely not ethnoreligious but the hyphenated Irish-Catholic is well known in our culture, along with Italian-Catholic and a few others. Strong associations but not the same as being Jewish.
I had a feeling where Huggy was going but thought I'd play along with him. He seems to hear what he wants to hear on this subject.
It is interesting how parsing a hyphen can mean so much.

When I was a kid I remember going to a discussion in my synagogue where they wanted us to discuss whether we saw ourselves as Jewish Americans or American Jews. The first term connotes religion while the second term connotes ethnicity (I think?)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53247 May 26, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Dunces with an extremely poor grasp of the basics of science and math are attempting to talk science on this thread. ROFL.
You sound a lot like like the little boy who is being ignored but who desperately wants to be heard

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53248 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

You sound a lot like like the little boy who is being ignored but who desperately wants to be heard.
Inferiority personified.



ROFL.

Anyway, carry on, and, hey, don't be so touchy, just relax.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53249 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Out of curiosity, why do you use the term fairy tale and not fable? Are you holding out for the possibility that some or all of the stories in the bible were not intended/created to have meaning other than entertainment, but now have meaning assigned to them?
Fairy tale is a more provocative (and admittedly less accurate) term for sure.(I admit I was playing with Huggy at the time.)

In a quick vocabulary review, it looks to me like 'parable' might be the best term to use:

A parable is [1] a succinct story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive principles, or lessons, or (sometimes) a normative principle. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters. It is a type of analogy.[2]

Some scholars of the Canonical gospels and the New Testament apply the term "parable" only to the parables of Jesus,[3] though that is not a common restriction of the term. Parables such as "The Prodigal Son" are central to Jesus' teaching method in both the canonical narratives and the apocrypha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable

ps

Good Morning on Huggy's Sabbath!

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53250 May 26, 2013
JEWISH INDIAN OR INDIAN JEW?

1) The question of observant or non-observant does not arise since the term Jewish in this specific sense indicates a racial type and hence those of Jewish ancestry have a distinct genetic makeup that differs from other religious types like say the Hindu.

2) Jews of different races have intermarried for generations giving rise to a common gene pool.

3) With the Hindu, however, marriage is strictly governed by the laws of eugenics that seeks to weed out abnormal practices like the incestuous type or the hypogamous kind and so the Hindu genome though distinct varies from say the Jewish genes which is almost completely perverted due to incest/hypogamy.

4) People of peculiar beliefs who inter-marry for numerous generations develop a specific genotype and this is their race-based ethnicity.

5) The term nationality is broad and may refer to people of diverse genotypes residing in one nation - the various genotypes may intermarry provided religious laws do not forbid inter-religious marriages but in most cases most people marry within their own religious community that may be comprised of different genetic types that get stirred together forming a kind of genetic potpourri.

6) So, can a person be a Jewish India or an Indian Jew is the question? Doesn't either term indicate an oxymoron? Yes, if the religious community is homogenous in genes formed by marriage among the adherents of various genotypes of the same faith over generations. Whereas, if nationality is a product determined by common genetic lineage, then one cannot be a Jew and an Indian simultaneously since both are specific genetic types. In such a case, the person, in genetic terms, is simply a Jew and not Jewish Indian or if he wishes to identify with his nationality then he's simply an Indian or an Indo-Aryan or whatever and not a Jew. As such, when seen in this particular context of genotype, a person cannot be both - Jewish and Indian - at the same time. It would be a contradiction in terms.

6) Interestingly, most Muslims in India are Hindu converts to Islam and if there's been no mixing of blood with Arabs, Turks, Mongols and Afghans then the gene pool of Muslims in India remains Hindu by nature, or is it so? See, Hindu converts to Islam have married among themselves most often in incestuous and hypogamous unions and besides their pattern of thinking and customs molded by the new faith have left an indelible mark on their genes and in this respect the Muslim genome in India will be after many generations markedly different from the Hindu one.

8) If nationality is not race/genetic based then nationality is a superfluous factor and in such a case a person may describe himself as a Jewish Indian, Muslim Indian or Hindu Indian provided he puts his faith above nation.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53251 May 26, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Inferiority personified.
ROFL.
Anyway, carry on, and, hey, don't be so touchy, just relax.
grouchy? Did you here me call someone a dunce?

what exactly is your personality issue anyhow?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53252 May 26, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
JEWISH INDIAN OR INDIAN JEW?
1) The question of observant or non-observant does not arise since the term Jewish in this specific sense indicates a racial type and hence those of Jewish ancestry have a distinct genetic makeup that differs from other religious types like say the Hindu.
2) Jews of different races have intermarried for generations giving rise to a common gene pool.
3) With the Hindu, however, marriage is strictly governed by the laws of eugenics that seeks to weed out abnormal practices like the incestuous type or the hypogamous kind and so the Hindu genome though distinct varies from say the Jewish genes which is almost completely perverted due to incest/hypogamy.
4) People of peculiar beliefs who inter-marry for numerous generations develop a specific genotype and this is their race-based ethnicity.
5) The term nationality is broad and may refer to people of diverse genotypes residing in one nation - the various genotypes may intermarry provided religious laws do not forbid inter-religious marriages but in most cases most people marry within their own religious community that may be comprised of different genetic types that get stirred together forming a kind of genetic potpourri.
6) So, can a person be a Jewish India or an Indian Jew is the question? Doesn't either term indicate an oxymoron? Yes, if the religious community is homogenous in genes formed by marriage among the adherents of various genotypes of the same faith over generations. Whereas, if nationality is a product determined by common genetic lineage, then one cannot be a Jew and an Indian simultaneously since both are specific genetic types. In such a case, the person, in genetic terms, is simply a Jew and not Jewish Indian or if he wishes to identify with his nationality then he's simply an Indian or an Indo-Aryan or whatever and not a Jew. As such, when seen in this particular context of genotype, a person cannot be both - Jewish and Indian - at the same time. It would be a contradiction in terms.
6) Interestingly, most Muslims in India are Hindu converts to Islam and if there's been no mixing of blood with Arabs, Turks, Mongols and Afghans then the gene pool of Muslims in India remains Hindu by nature, or is it so? See, Hindu converts to Islam have married among themselves most often in incestuous and hypogamous unions and besides their pattern of thinking and customs molded by the new faith have left an indelible mark on their genes and in this respect the Muslim genome in India will be after many generations markedly different from the Hindu one.
8) If nationality is not race/genetic based then nationality is a superfluous factor and in such a case a person may describe himself as a Jewish Indian, Muslim Indian or Hindu Indian provided he puts his faith above nation.
Nationality is rarely based on race. Its based upon where you are born, or in the case of ethnicity, where your ancestors or older living generations were born.

Dont kid yourself that there are not Arabs in India that are as Indian as your Hindus. What makes them Indian isnt some bloodline but their birth in the modern nation-state.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53253 May 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Fairy tale is a more provocative (and admittedly less accurate) term for sure.(I admit I was playing with Huggy at the time.)
In a quick vocabulary review, it looks to me like 'parable' might be the best term to use:
A parable is [1] a succinct story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive principles, or lessons, or (sometimes) a normative principle. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters. It is a type of analogy.[2]
Some scholars of the Canonical gospels and the New Testament apply the term "parable" only to the parables of Jesus,[3] though that is not a common restriction of the term. Parables such as "The Prodigal Son" are central to Jesus' teaching method in both the canonical narratives and the apocrypha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
ps
Good Morning on Huggy's Sabbath!
In the OT, there are animals (talking donkeys) and angels and forces of nature (burning bushes, seas, etc)...so I think they may be more fairy tales and fables.

I can certainly accept someone opining that some of the stories did not have any really meaning other than entertainment, but later were coopted to be moralistic once they got redacted into the primary text. I was curious if that was were you stood, or if you thought they all were created with meaning.

Cool today but will be 88 by thursday. Ran the heat this weekend and AC by next weekend. This aint normal - its weird!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53254 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
In the OT, there are animals (talking donkeys) and angels and forces of nature (burning bushes, seas, etc)...so I think they may be more fairy tales and fables.
I can certainly accept someone opining that some of the stories did not have any really meaning other than entertainment, but later were coopted to be moralistic once they got redacted into the primary text. I was curious if that was were you stood, or if you thought they all were created with meaning.
Cool today but will be 88 by thursday. Ran the heat this weekend and AC by next weekend. This aint normal - its weird!
I biblical scholar I am not.

But people do tend to want to read meanings into things (piece of toast etc that looks like Jesus...).

OTOH most creative endeavors contain the thinking of the author/artist.

Yeah strange weather. I saw a climate guy who said they're now not even saying 'climate change' but simply 'climate.' Whatever it is, it's keeping me on the run - open then closing then opening windows etc. It's good though. We've had boiler AND a/c serviced now and recently found out we need a new boiler! oh well. As Salinger said, "And so it goes."
Voluntarist

United States

#53255 May 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Fairy tale is a more provocative (and admittedly less accurate) term for sure.(I admit I was playing with Huggy at the time.)
In a quick vocabulary review, it looks to me like 'parable' might be the best term to use:
A parable is [1] a succinct story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive principles, or lessons, or (sometimes) a normative principle. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters. It is a type of analogy.[2]
Some scholars of the Canonical gospels and the New Testament apply the term "parable" only to the parables of Jesus,[3] though that is not a common restriction of the term. Parables such as "The Prodigal Son" are central to Jesus' teaching method in both the canonical narratives and the apocrypha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
ps
Good Morning on Huggy's Sabbath!
And your belief in the facts of government jurisdiction is just a fable.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53256 May 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing is 100% one thing or the other.
I prefer not to see the world in black in white.
Most of life is lived in the gray areas.
Much of literature contains elements of history, psychology, sociology, politics, philosophy, theology, commentary, fantasy, and yes, reality.
It is for the individual to evaluate that which speaks to him and what message he wishes to take from any creative work of art.
So, the answer to your question above is: It is whatever you make of it. We would probably all answer that differently. I have no personal knowledge of this piece of literature. So, honestly, I would not be the best person to ask.
What did you think of the book,'Gone With the Wind?'
How about,'My Wicked, Wicked Life,' by Errol Flynn.
HughBe--- You have no idea what history is. As a Catholic(former) how would you classify the book of Esther?

Is it HISTORY or FICTION?

Former---Nothing is 100% one thing or the other.

HughBe---- Which is it more of, FICTION or HISTORY?

Former--I prefer not to see the world in black in white.

HughBe--- See it as it is and so if the world is black and white see it like that and NOT in the way that makes you feel comfortable.

Former---Most of life is lived in the gray areas.

HughBe-- Why is that so? Do you HATE the BLACK?

Former--Much of literature contains elements of history, psychology, sociology, politics, philosophy, theology, commentary, fantasy, and yes, reality.

HughBe-- Noted now answer the question. Is Esther a book of HISTORY or FICTION? Tell me the fictional aspects of Esther.

Former--It is for the individual to evaluate that which speaks to him and what message he wishes to take from any creative work of art.

HughBe--- Past events are past and it matters not what kind of message or impact it has on the reader those things cannot change the FACTS or history.

Former---So, the answer to your question above is: It is whatever you make of it.

HughBe--- Pure CS and YOU know it.

I am going to make a big assumption here and it is that at some point in your life you had access to something called a LIBRARY. Now when you went did you find HISTORY books in the FICTIONAL section? Is that how it is done in America?

Former---What did you think of the book,'Gone With the Wind?'

HughBe--- Based on my memory of the book which was read in the 70's and the movie which I saw I would call it a perfect example of a RELIABLE HISTORY book.:D

What would you call it?

Former---How about,'My Wicked, Wicked Life,' by Errol Flynn.

HughBe--- No doubt you read it as like attracts like in your world. I have never read it or heard about it.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53257 May 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes, very religious. Very Christian - either Catholic or Protestant.
2. Yes, Celtic/Irish.
3. Yes. See above.
4. Yes, Catholic.
(I smell a trap....)
Former---I smell a trap....

HughBe--- That is positive as it means that you have gained intelligence.

HughBe-- Do Irish people have a RELIGIOUS history or are they without one?

Former---Yes, very religious.

HughBe---Do Irish people belong to an ethnic group?

Former--Yes, Celtic/Irish

HughBe--- So Irish people are ethno-religious as they have an ethnicity and religion.

Are you an Irish person, as you have stated?

HughBe--- Do you belong to an ethnic group?

Former--- YES

HughBe--- Do YOU and your family have a RELIGIOUS history?

Former---YES

HUghBe--- So based on the FACTS that YOU have an ethnicity as well as a RELIGIOUS history YOU are ethno-religious and this is something that YOU have previously denied.

Now that I have explained to YOU who you are, embrace your ethno-religious self and enjoy your life, ATHEIST.

HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53258 May 26, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Where's Hugh the sex perv?
He's so cock friendly!
(smiles)
OF :D
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53259 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not a book, its a scroll
It would be helpful if you knew even the most fundamental facts about the work.
HughBe---what do you call the book of Esther?
Is it a HISTORICAL book?
Is it a book of FICTION?

Frijoles---Its not a book, its a scroll

HughBe--- Anus, do you read Esther from a scroll? Is Esther in books?

Frijoles---It would be helpful if you knew even the most fundamental facts about the work

HughBe--- Self-deceiving orifice answer the question. Insert scroll and answer my question.

I shall be repeating it until it is answered dear US educated Judahite.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53260 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit I am not the most educated on the subject of your heritage, but I dont think of your heritage as ethno-religious in the same way Jews are. Not that you dont have a definite religious culture that complements the ethnic culture, but what creates the Jewish situation is the complicated interaction between internal religious laws of tribal membership and the external imposition of ethnicity (i.e something you are "born into" regardless of your religious views).
Hughbe is setting up a false equivalence. Christians are not an ethno-religious group either, but yet he cited that as an example as well. Basically,(shockingly), Hughbe misses the boat on the concept.
Frijoles---Hughbe is setting up a false equivalence. Christians are not an ethno-religious group either

HughBe--- Please explain it to me. Is it that Christians lack ethnicity or it is that they lack religion?

Expose my STUPIDITY.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53262 May 26, 2013
Former---A fairy tale is certainly a type of story.

HughBe--- Thanks for confirming both your stupidity and DECEPTIVE nature. My words above are clear.

Former--You may want to study a thing called a syllogism -

HughBe---Cut the....

Former--So, though all fairy tales are stories, it does not follow that all stories are fairy tales.(Nor did I say that.)

HughBe--- I said as much and was understood by people with BASIC common sense.

Former--If is not your fault where you were raised and educated.

HughBe--- It is sad that plain things are hidden from you.

Former---Nice little FABLES written many years ago and passed down through...

HughBe--- Little fellow the writers wrote them as actual events and experiences. For example, "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."

The Egyptian experience is written as an ACTUAL experience and not a fable.

Former---I understand the writing device employed.

HughBe--- I understand that you are calling the history of the Jewish people LIES and the people themselves are being called LIARS, by YOU.

Former--Again, well executed. Many folks have evidently found the writings compelling.

HughBe--- Yes really, I am NOT as old as you are and clearly you were alive 200 years ago. I rely on the reports of others.

Former--Yes, reports. Multiple sources and actual historical events.

HughBe--- are you talking about MULTIPLE eyewitnesses? explain your MULTIPLE SOURCES.

Former--Not just a handful of people recorded their experiences and observations of the American Revolution, The Pilgrims, The American Civil War etc. So though I was not an eye witness to these historical events, I feel confident that they actually happened.

HughBe--- Quantify the number of sources. The history of the Jews were recorded and read and KNOWN to those who had the experiences and their later generations.

HUghBe---My sources are HISTORICAL and contain the experiences of MILLIONS of eyewitnesses.

Former--Please explain your "millions of eyewitenesses."

HughBe--- Those who lived at the time of Esther. Those who came out of Egypt. Those who lived during the reigns of the various kings etc.

Former---How do you know this?

HughBe--- From the HISTORY of a people that are stiffnecked. Based on my knowledge of them today I am far more confident in the RELIABILITY of their history in the bible than in believing that men have been to the moon.

These people would NEVER record negatives things about their history, if they were NOT TRUE.Trust me on that.

Bet your life on it. It is far more certain and accurate than the occurrence and reporting of the Civil war in America.

These people and I think of the religious ones are far more likely to TWIST history than to record the TRUTH and they certainly will not lightly record the NEGATIVES as contained in the bible.

Nehatives e.g. DAYS after the exodus they went into IDOLATRY. Take it from me, it HAPPENED.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53263 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
That particular megillah is not one of my favorites. I dont enjoy the violent ending. But then again, I dont enjoy Grimm's Fairy Tales either for the same reason.
HughBe---Is it(Esther) a HISTORICAL book?
Is it a book of FICTION?

Frijoles---That particular megillah is not one of my favorites

HughBe--- Deceiver, answer the question.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53264 May 26, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
The highest form of satanism = Judaism.
Joel--The highest form of satanism = Judaism.

HughBe--- I don't know that you are correct but this is what I KNOW. Judaism is the highest form of DECEPTION and LIES for a RELIGION.

The qualities are demonstrated by EVER member that I know plus it is in the writings and utterances of the rabbis/PHARAOHS and I am NOT talking about ANCIENT writings I am talking about things said and done in OUR lifetime.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53265 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Nationality is rarely based on race.
Yeah, but it's not so rare.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53266 May 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Dont kid yourself that there are not Arabs in India that are as Indian as your Hindus.
I'd qualified my statement by taking a case where there is no mixing of blood in a Muslim and the rest follows from this surmise.

Re-read it carefully.

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