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former res

Cheshire, CT

#52673 May 17, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
You are lost in the trees missing the forest
I think what FR was getting at was that facts and truths are not either/or. His use of vs implies a potential to contrast, but also with common elements as well that may be functions of each other.
Thats is why we have the expression "compare and contrast" to indicate differences, but not necessarily absolutes.
FACT
1) A thing that is indisputably the case.
2) Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
Excellent. Thanks, Frijoles.

Compare and contrast really captures it.

Similarities and differences both.

As opposed to one or the other.

One of my favorite notions is that people (for example) are more alike than they/we are different. Some choose to focus on our differences (often unfortunately) while others focus in that which we have in common.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#52674 May 17, 2013
That which being developed and becoming everything in the manifestation but yet remaining the same in the underlying essence is the absolute.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52675 May 17, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
FORMER:
What is the relationship between fact and truth?
(smiles)
Something can be factually true while not capturing the truth of the thing.

Have you ever heard of the letter vs the spirit of the law?

Engineers tend to think in concrete terms and would have a problem with this sort of thinking.

Is that perhaps your problem? Not familiar with abstract thought?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52676 May 17, 2013
I should have said:

Something can be factually ACCURATE while not capturing the truth of the thing.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52677 May 17, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFL.
You're a retard.
Go debate Voluntarist - both of you are sailing in the same sinking boat.
Is it that difficult to remain on an elevated level of discourse?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52678 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
I should have said:
Something can be factually ACCURATE while not capturing the truth of the thing.
There are a few meanings and uses for fact.

In the scientific world, you can perhaps exchange the word "facts" for "data", and "truth" for conclusion, or even hypothesis. I.E. to adapt that approach back into the nonscientific world, facts are what you reason with to make conclusions (truth).

I think the legal system works the same way.(?)
Voluntarist

United States

#52679 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a deal.
Don't pay your taxes.
Mickey Sherman did a year in prison
for not paying his.
So you'll be in good company.
Again you imply that if someone sits in a cage that somehow legitimizes a law.
btw Sherman is not a good attorney like others make him out to be.
Voluntarist

United States

#52680 May 17, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a few meanings and uses for fact.
In the scientific world, you can perhaps exchange the word "facts" for "data", and "truth" for conclusion, or even hypothesis. I.E. to adapt that approach back into the nonscientific world, facts are what you reason with to make conclusions (truth).
I think the legal system works the same way.(?)
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ultimate fact n. in a trial, a conclusion of fact which is logically
deduced from evidence ("evidentiary facts"). Example: the evidentiary
facts were that driver Larry Leadfoot a) exceeded the speed limit, b)
drove over the double-line, c) skidded and lost control of his car; the
ultimate fact was, therefore, Leadfoot was negligent. It is essential to
introduce the evidentiary facts during the trial in order to prove the
ultimate fact. A mere statement by a witness that "Leadfoot was
negligent" is not sufficient, since it is an opinion of the witness and is
not evidence.(See: evidence)
Voluntarist

United States

#52681 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
I should have said:
Something can be factually ACCURATE while not capturing the truth of the thing.
Your statement should read "capture the truth of the whole thing"
Voluntarist

United States

#52682 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
True about Congress. We agree on that but we probably disagree about where to cut spending. You folks always want a lot of military spending.
But I do believe in paying ones debts.
Try not to make generalizations "you folks", not me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52683 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you imply that if someone sits in a cage that somehow legitimizes a law.
btw Sherman is not a good attorney like others make him out to be.
Re Sherman, Michael Skakel agrees with you.

Remember I told you I'm more of a pragmatist than an idealist?

I pay my taxes like I brush my teeth. Not because I enjoy it.

Makes more sense to do it than to not do it.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52684 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
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ultimate fact n. in a trial, a conclusion of fact which is logically
deduced from evidence ("evidentiary facts"). Example: the evidentiary
facts were that driver Larry Leadfoot a) exceeded the speed limit, b)
drove over the double-line, c) skidded and lost control of his car; the
ultimate fact was, therefore, Leadfoot was negligent. It is essential to
introduce the evidentiary facts during the trial in order to prove the
ultimate fact. A mere statement by a witness that "Leadfoot was
negligent" is not sufficient, since it is an opinion of the witness and is
not evidence.(See: evidence)
Conversely, for many folks, they have absolutely no facts/evidence that their god exists, but their personal "truth" is that he does and that he hears their prayers.

My truth is that I don't know. And yet I'm operating form the same facts of he case.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52685 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Your statement should read "capture the truth of the whole thing"
I tend to think of it more as the essential truth.

You are speaking more legally, as in "the whole truth and nothing but..."

It' a more technical take on it.

Mine being more philosophical.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52686 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Try not to make generalizations "you folks", not me.
You either care about poor people or you don't.

You don't.

You and your kind.
Voluntarist

United States

#52687 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Conversely, for many folks, they have absolutely no facts/evidence that their god exists, but their personal "truth" is that he does and that he hears their prayers.
My truth is that I don't know. And yet I'm operating form the same facts of he case.
Same goes for you who believes that the constitution and laws are applicable to you.

If the church put you in a cage you would be a believer.
Voluntarist

United States

#52688 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You either care about poor people or you don't.
You don't.
You and your kind.
Not true I care about poor people but the government doesn't teach a man how to fish
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52689 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Same goes for you who believes that the constitution and laws are applicable to you.
If the church put you in a cage you would be a believer.
And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I've told you repeatedly that my paying of taxes is not faith-based. It simply seems like the wise thing to do.

But you can continue to frame as a matter of blind faith if it pleases you.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52690 May 17, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true I care about poor people but the government doesn't teach a man how to fish
So you would vote to stop feeding them fish
in the meantime?

That is, until they learned to fish?
Voluntarist

United States

#52692 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
I've told you repeatedly that my paying of taxes is not faith-based. It simply seems like the wise thing to do.
But you can continue to frame as a matter of blind faith if it pleases you.
I was referring to applicability
Voluntarist

United States

#52693 May 17, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
So you would vote to stop feeding them fish
in the meantime?
That is, until they learned to fish?
Necessity is the mother of invention

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