Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51143
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Just like you have faith in government, are you ignorant or a masochist?
Are those my only choices?

What "belief without evidence" do I have in gov't?

None that I know of.

Social Security has lifted millions of seniors out of poverty - FACT.

We spend more on our military than the next 15 or so countries combined - FACT.

We have the lowest taxes in the western world - FACT.

What else do you need schooling on?

I'll be here all week.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#51144
Apr 26, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The very definition of faith involves belief without proof/evidence:
faith
/f&#257;TH/
Noun
1.Com plete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2.Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
To go back to our friend's example:
Is there anymore evidence for any religious foundation than there is for the Easter bunny?
The fact that this is done "consciously" and in an "accepting" way as you say, I have no doubt of. But I also don't think this argues against my point.
I am not sure what the original point is anymore

But my point was to show there are two populations you are mixing. The thoughtless and the thoughtful. Really, your grievance is with the thoughtless, the ones who rely on faith but claim it is evidence based. Not the thoughtful, who rely on faith, but have no such claim.

And among both groups, even though neither are evidenced based pursuant to your modern standards, there is often still an internal logic with a (weaker) pre-modern evidentiary standard. The logic is that testament equals evidence. It might not fit your standards, but it is accepted as such. Therefore, from their view, they are evidenced based.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51145
Apr 26, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
Rabbee is a rabid satanist. LOL.
Not that there is anything wrong with that....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51146
Apr 26, 2013
 
IceCreamCohen wrote:
But Jews DO proselytize, in other ways. By telling Christians tat they have to "love" and "support" Israel and the Jews, that is literally proselytization - b/c it is done to further a Jewish agenda. When Jews put eruvs around an entire town, forcing Christians to live within what is now symbolically a Jewish "home", that's proselytizing. When Jews force companies to ensure that their food is kosher (under threat of mass boycott), the company has to then 1) change to kosher practices and 2) hire rabbis to stand around all overseeing the practices. This costs money and is a burden. It also means that Christians are forced to eat kosher food; I've heard Jews and others complain about having to eat halal food without permission; therefore, if Jews feel halal is objectionable, kosher, which is nearly identical, must also be objectionable. Lastly, Christians are forced to pay higher taxes to support Israel, so that Israel (a socialist nation, by the way) can let orthodox males collect welfare. This way, they can read Torah and Talmud all day every day rather than work. That is religious coercion; Christians are literally being forced to fund Jewish religious studies!
Oh the horror of that!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51147
Apr 26, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
EUGENIC PERVERTS - HYPOGAMOUS/INBRED FILTH ON THIS THREAD:
1) Frijoles
2) Eric
3) MUQ
4) Hugh
5) Liam R
6) Susan Blange
7) Rabbee
Impressive. Can you count BACKWARDS too?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51148
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Voluntarist wrote:
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Just like you have faith in government, are you ignorant or a masochist?
CLASSIC!!!

"......The crucial difference between having a preconceived notion — we all do that, of course — and conspiratorial thinking is when you get into that self-sealing reasoning and ignore every piece of evidence that is pointing the other way, when you’re starting to broaden the circle of conspirators, and when your skepticism gets to be nihilistic — when you believe absolutely nothing that the government or the media is saying — that’s when you’ve crossed the line...."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/why_people_be ...
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51149
Apr 26, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure what the original point is anymore
But my point was to show there are two populations you are mixing. The thoughtless and the thoughtful. Really, your grievance is with the thoughtless, the ones who rely on faith but claim it is evidence based. Not the thoughtful, who rely on faith, but have no such claim.
And among both groups, even though neither are evidenced based pursuant to your modern standards, there is often still an internal logic with a (weaker) pre-modern evidentiary standard. The logic is that testament equals evidence. It might not fit your standards, but it is accepted as such. Therefore, from their view, they are evidenced based.
Have you seen all the evidence that ATF and the other conspiracy folks point to? They have lots of data, facts, information.

It may not meet your standards, but to them it has its own internal logic and well-reasoned thinking.

From their point of view, it is extremely "evidence-based" and no doubt they would be happy to share this with anyone who will listen.(Of course it's all out there for anyone to see.)
Voluntarist

United States

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#51150
Apr 26, 2013
 

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former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Are those my only choices?
What "belief without evidence" do I have in gov't?
None that I know of.
Social Security has lifted millions of seniors out of poverty - FACT.
We spend more on our military than the next 15 or so countries combined - FACT.
We have the lowest taxes in the western world - FACT.
What else do you need schooling on?
I'll be here all week.
Do you consider yourself a citizen?
Voluntarist

United States

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#51151
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
CLASSIC!!!
"......The crucial difference between having a preconceived notion — we all do that, of course — and conspiratorial thinking is when you get into that self-sealing reasoning and ignore every piece of evidence that is pointing the other way, when you’re starting to broaden the circle of conspirators, and when your skepticism gets to be nihilistic — when you believe absolutely nothing that the government or the media is saying — that’s when you’ve crossed the line...."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/why_people_be ...
And you are a classic imbecile.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51152
Apr 26, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen all the evidence that ATF and the other conspiracy folks point to? They have lots of data, facts, information.
It may not meet your standards, but to them it has its own internal logic and well-reasoned thinking.
From their point of view, it is extremely "evidence-based" and no doubt they would be happy to share this with anyone who will listen.(Of course it's all out there for anyone to see.)
Not totally, because they habitually ignore any evidence to the contrary. Thats part of evaluation of the evidence too

But we are splitting hairs.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#51153
Apr 26, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
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And you are a classic imbecile.
But I DO consider myself a citizen.
Voluntarist

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#51154
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
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But I DO consider myself a citizen.
Good for you ,then you have some faith in government that doesnt exist.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

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#51155
Apr 26, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
Ruakh, the life-force, is not the soul. If it is the soul then how does one explain the fact that mind exceeds the vital principle of which the life-force with its pentuple currents is an aspect? LOL.
Christians confuse the soul with the spirit. The Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh" and it means life. The blood is the life of the flesh, the soul is another name for the body. Earth is called the land of the living. The Hebrew word for spirit is "ruach" and it means breath or wind. When a baby is born alive and takes its first breath, the spirit enters into them. It's the spirit that survives death.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#51156
Apr 26, 2013
 

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susanblange wrote:
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Christians confuse the soul with the spirit.
LOL.

What is spirit? What is its basal constituent? How does it relate to mind, vital and matter?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

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#51157
Apr 26, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
What is spirit? What is its basal constituent? How does it relate to mind, vital and matter?
The Spirit is composed of Energy and consciousness which is connected to the mind. With the death of the brain, all our memories perish and we begin anew, with a new slate. When we die, we lose weight and heat. Heat is a form of Energy and matter is also associated with Energy.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#51158
Apr 26, 2013
 
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>

1) The Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh" and it means life.

2) The Hebrew word for spirit is "ruach" and it means breath or wind.
ROFL.

You're as confused as those ignorant Hebrew patriarchs.

Life force and vital airs mean almost the same thing and are aspects of the universal vital consciousness-force.

Life and breath are related terms in a deeper sense.

Besides, the infused life-force animates the physical forces like electromagnetism, matter, and its states - solid, liquid, gas, plasma, gluon-quark plasma, Einstein-Bose condensate and so on.

An aspect of the life-force with its pentuple currents infuses matter and in the body it is known as the physico-vital which gives life and animates the organ systems.

Inhalation of oxygen like the ingestion of food, sleep, touch and other modes of action are ways of replenishing the life-force as it manifests in matter.

The life-force is an aspect of the vital consciousness and the life-force animates matter and draws in life force from the universal life-force currents through breathing in of air, food, touch and rest, as stated above.

Ruach and nepesh are in this way dependent terms and both refer to the vital principle though of course the Hebrews were ignorant of the fact that the life-force was an aspect of the vital and that it (life force) had 5 currents and so on and they were also ignorant of the states of existence that exceeded the vital.

Vital exceeds matter, mind exceeds the vital, supermind exceeds the mind, and so on....

Actually the cosmic hierarchy is as follows:

1) Matter

2) Subtle Physical

3) Lower Vital

4) Higher Vital

5) Mind

6) Higher Mind

7) Illumined Mind

8) Intuition Mind

9) Overmind - 1

10) Overmind -2

11) Overmind - 3

12) Overmind - 4

13) Supermind - 1

14) Supermind - 2

15) Supermind - 3

16) Supermind -4

and so on.....

Everything about the Middle Eastern cults is based on the vital force.

The Hebrews were stuck on the lowly vital plane and their G-d too is a vital being, one being among many, that they chose to worship as they had been taught by the pre-Hebrew seers of the older cultures of the Middle East.

The soul is something else. Read my post on the soul.

Here it is. This is the true meaning of the soul and it far far exceeds the ordinary meaning of soul given by those very ignorant Hebrew patriarchs.

WHAT IS THE SOUL?

1) The soul is the psychic consciousness which is a supporting and organizing grade of consciousness with its concomitant energy that stands behind the mental, vital, subtle physical, gross physical and subconscient layers of consciousness.

2) The psychic is usually smothered in most human beings since perverse mental, vital and physical instincts tend to choke it.

3) Only under certain conditions of balance among the psychological, vital and physical elements and with sustained aspiration and intense concentration on its root vibration does the psychic effulge and come to the forefront.

4) The psychic is a delegation of the cosmic self which in turn is a projection of the supracosmic self and this in turn is a direct line of consciousness put forth by the unified field of consciousness-energy when it manifests.

CONCLUSION: The satan-worshipping, incestuously born and mass-murdering Hebrew patriarchs, our deluded and wolf-in-sheep's clothing, Jesus, and the satanist, inbred and mass-murdering Muhammad had no knowledge of the psychic and its higher gradations. Expected!
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

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#51159
Apr 26, 2013
 

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JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFL.
You're as confused as those ignorant Hebrew patriarchs.
Life force and vital airs mean almost the same thing and are aspects of the universal vital consciousness-force.
Life and breath are related terms in a deeper sense.
Besides, the infused life-force animates the physical forces like electromagnetism, matter, and its states - solid, liquid, gas, plasma, gluon-quark plasma, Einstein-Bose condensate and so on.
An aspect of the life-force with its pentuple currents infuses matter and in the body it is known as the physico-vital which gives life and animates the organ systems.
Inhalation of oxygen like the ingestion of food, sleep, touch and other modes of action are ways of replenishing the life-force as it manifests in matter.
The life-force is an aspect of the vital consciousness and the life-force animates matter and draws in life force from the universal life-force currents through breathing in of air, food, touch and rest, as stated above.
Ruach and nepesh are in this way dependent terms and both refer to the vital principle though of course the Hebrews were ignorant of the fact that the life-force was an aspect of the vital and that it (life force) had 5 currents and so on and they were also ignorant of the states of existence that exceeded the vital.
Vital exceeds matter, mind exceeds the vital, supermind exceeds the mind, and so on....
Actually the cosmic hierarchy is as follows:
1) Matter
2) Subtle Physical
3) Lower Vital
4) Higher Vital
5) Mind
6) Higher Mind
7) Illumined Mind
8) Intuition Mind
9) Overmind - 1
10) Overmind -2
11) Overmind - 3
12) Overmind - 4
13) Supermind - 1
14) Supermind - 2
15) Supermind - 3
16) Supermind -4
and so on.....
Everything about the Middle Eastern cults is based on the vital force.
The Hebrews were stuck on the lowly vital plane and their G-d too is a vital being, one being among many, that they chose to worship as they had been taught by the pre-Hebrew seers of the older cultures of the Middle East.
The soul is something else. Read my post on the soul.
Here it is. This is the true meaning of the soul and it far far exceeds the ordinary meaning of soul given by those very ignorant Hebrew patriarchs.
WHAT IS THE SOUL?
1) The soul is the psychic consciousness which is a supporting and organizing grade of consciousness with its concomitant energy that stands behind the mental, vital, subtle physical, gross physical and subconscient layers of consciousness.
2) The psychic is usually smothered in most human beings since perverse mental, vital and physical instincts tend to choke it.
3) Only under certain conditions of balance among the psychological, vital and physical elements and with sustained aspiration and intense concentration on its root vibration does the psychic effulge and come to the forefront.
4) The psychic is a delegation of the cosmic self which in turn is a projection of the supracosmic self and this in turn is a direct line of consciousness put forth by the unified field of consciousness-energy when it manifests.
CONCLUSION: The satan-worshipping, incestuously born and mass-murdering Hebrew patriarchs, our deluded and wolf-in-sheep's clothing, Jesus, and the satanist, inbred and mass-murdering Muhammad had no knowledge of the psychic and its higher gradations. Expected!
And you don't believe in intelligent design? You are too smart for your own good and the bible says you're a fool.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#51160
Apr 26, 2013
 

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susanblange wrote:
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The Spirit is composed of Energy and consciousness which is connected to the mind.
Where are the terms energy and consciousness with their innate gradations mentioned in the Bible? There are no references to these entities. Besides, consciousness and energy are unified in the ultimate analysis and exist as a unified field with an inbuilt causal mechanism.

Spirit is therefore undefined in the Bible and is a mumbo jumbo term.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#51161
Apr 26, 2013
 

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susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>

The Spirit is composed of Energy and consciousness which is connected to the mind.
So, you're setting up a dualism here by positing that energy, consciousness and mind are causally unrelated.

Mind is a specific gradation of the manifested unified field of consciousness-Energy.

Refer to the cosmic hierarchy that I'd posted earlier to understand the position of mind in it.

I'll type a detailed piece on mind later.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#51162
Apr 26, 2013
 

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susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>

With the death of the brain, all our memories perish.
LOL.

Brain is the instrumental part of expressing the higher states of consciousness in matter.

Even when you have a functional brain the causal link between brain (matter) and consciousness is well-established and in fact what the consciousness perceives, feels, senses, thinks and so on is manifested as electrical impulses in matter (brain) and these get converted into synaptic connections and hormonal discharges etc.

On death, the imprints of your life activities and thoughts are stored in the psychic consciousness and so nothing is lost.

More on this later.

The Hebrew account of life, death and the afterlife is highly misleading but this only to be expected from the ignorant patriarchs.

Anyway.

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