Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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Voluntarist

United States

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#51102
Apr 25, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You know how many times we have presented corrections to you?
Opinion that is.

And when i say that there are influentual people aspiring to create a one world government, you say thats a conspiracy theory, i prove it to you and then you poo poo it.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

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#51103
Apr 25, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Opinion that is.
And when i say that there are influentual people aspiring to create a one world government, you say thats a conspiracy theory, i prove it to you and then you poo poo it.
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51104
Apr 25, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mixing your concepts. It doesnt count if you have the conspiracy theory. Only if the religious person does.
Why DO sheep herders wear cowboy boots?
The key in the quote your provided for me was the belief in a concept and the rejection of evidence-based thinking.

The fact that it made Karl Marx happy was just a bonus.

The rear legs of the sheep fit nicely in the boots and then they can't run away....or so I hear.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51105
Apr 25, 2013
 
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
There are facts, even seemingly circumstantial facts can lead a person of above average intelligence to disbelieve the "official story".

NORAD was running drills on 9/11, when the hijackers actually hijacked the planes it caused mass confusion, recordings of the controllers asking "is this real world or exercise".

Building 7 fell straight to the ground in the path of most resistance at free fall speed.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51106
Apr 25, 2013
 
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
Actually it is the government that comes up with the conspiracy theory, like on 9/11.

The book "9/11 omissions and distortions" is about what facts the 9/11 commission considered and those that they decided to leave out.
So picture a jury getting to see certain evidence but not allowed to consider certain other evidence.
A different verdict can conclude when evidence is withheld.

So many conspiracy theorists point out facts that were not considered. by the commission.

Plus the commission started with a conclusion and worked back to the beginning, instead of start to finish and a conclusion based on evidence.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51107
Apr 25, 2013
 
Omissions
The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel-framed high-rise
building has ever collapsed due to fires .
The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-
framed skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack.
The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the
owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department
decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a
conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents.
The Report fails to mention the rapid removal and recycling of
the structural steel from the collapsed World Trade Center
buildings, even to make excuses for it.
The Report makes no mention of a statement by then-Mayor
Rudolph Giuliani to Peter Jennings indicating he had
foreknowledge of the collapses: "We were operating out of there
when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna
collapse, and it did collapse before we could get out of the
building."
The Report contains no mentions of eyewitness accounts of
explosions preceding the collapse of South Towers.
The Report fails to mention that George W. Bush's brother,
Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principals in
the company that had the contract to provide security for the
World Trade Center, Stratesec, nor does it mention the company.
The Report makes no mention of the fact that a new lessor took
control of the World Trade Center complex just six weeks before
the attack, obtained an insurance policy covering terrorist
attacks, and successfully sued the insurance companies to obtain
twice the multi-billion-dollar value of the policy.
The Report repeats the list of 19 suspects identified by the FBI
within days of the attack, while failing to mention that six of
them reported themselves alive after the attack .
The Report fails to mention any of the reports of behavior by the
alleged hijackers before the attack that belie the official story
that they were devout Muslims on a suicide mission for Allah.
The Report fails to mention that the published passenger lists
contained no Arab names -- a fact publicized by skeptics of the
official story.
The Report fails to ask why the plane that crashed into the
Pentagon was not stopped by anti-aircraft missile batteries that
presumably ring the building.
The Report fails to mention that no credible footage of the
Pentagon attack has been made public, despite public knowledge
that the FBI seized footage of the attack from nearby businesses .
The Report does not ask why the Secret Service did not obtain air
cover for the President's motorcade from the Sarasota school to
the airport, nor for Air Force One, which took off at about 9:54,
until about 11:10.
The Report avoids mentioning several reports that government
officials and business leaders received warnings and avoided
targets of the attacks, including:
A warning by the FBI advising Attorney General John
Ashcroft to avoid flying on commercial airlines.
The report that Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel
plans the evening before the attack.
A warning to San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to avoid
flying.
The grounding of Salman Rushdie by Scotland Yard.
The Report avoids mentioning a warning received by employees
of Odigo hours before the attack.
The Report does not mention that letters with weaponized
anthrax were sent to the two most powerful senators attempting
to slow the passage of the 9/11/01 attack-predicated USA
PATRIOT Act.
The Report states that the Commission was "chartered to prepare
a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness
for and the immediate response to the attacks," but fails to
mention that it makes no attempt to meet its charter.

http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/commissio...
Voluntarist

United States

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#51108
Apr 25, 2013
 
Falsehoods
The Report's Notes state: "the interior core of the [Twin Towers]
was a hollow steel shaft, in which the elevators and stairwells
were grouped." In fact, the core structures were composed of
bundles of steel columns numbering 47 and having outside
dimensions, in most cases, of 36 by 16 inches and 54 by 22
inches.
The Report states that the "South Tower collapsed in ten
seconds," when it actually took about 15 seconds. While one
might expect that the Commission would overstate rather than
understate the collapse time, the fact that the Commission did
not even consider a collapse time within one second of the
vacuum free-fall time of 9.2 seconds a problem for the official
explanation is evidence that the Commission would endorse that
explanation no matter what the facts.
Regarding the failure to promptly move George W. Bush from the
known location of the Sarasota classroom, the Report states that
"No one in the traveling party had any information during this
time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing." Yet, according
to evidence assembled by David Griffin, the Secret Service has
open lines to the FAA, whose top operations people in the
northeast corridor thought that as many as 11 planes had been
hijacked. 2
The Report states: "The threat of terrorists hijacking commercial
airliners within the United States -- and using them as guided
missiles -- was not recognized by NORAD before 9/11." (The
Report repeats the assertion three times.) Yet media reports, such
as the USA Today article entitled "NORAD had drills of jets as
weapons" describe pre-9/11 NORAD drills involving hijacked
jetliners crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
3
The Report states: "The protocols did not contemplate an
intercept. They assumed the fighter escort would be discreet,
'vectored to a position five miles directly behind the hijacked
aircraft,' where it could perform its mission to monitor the
aircraft's flight path." Yet the order referenced by the footnote
for this statement (Order 7610.4J: Special Military Operations),
states:
7-2-1. FACILITY NOTIFICATION
The FAA hijack coordinator will advise the appropriate center/
control tower of the identification of the military unit and
location tasked to provide the hijack escort. The center/control
tower shall coordinate with the designated NORAD SOCC/ROCC/
military unit advising of the hijack aircraft's location,
direction of flight, altitude, type aircraft and recommended
flight plan to intercept the hijack aircraft . The center/
control tower shall file the coordinated flight plan. 4
To address the charge that Saudi nationals were flown out of
the country before the post-9/11 flight ban was lifted, the Report
states: "we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals,
domestic or international, took place before the reopening of
national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001." In fact
national airspace was only open to commercial airliners on a
case-by-case basis on September 13, 2001. It was not until
September 15th that the skies were opened to general aviation
(privately owned aircraft). 5 Yet the Lear Jet that flew Saudi
nationals from Tampa, FL to Lexington, KY on September 13th
was a private plane. 6
Voluntarist

United States

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#51109
Apr 25, 2013
 
Contradictions
The Report notes that Hani Hanjour's pilot application was
rejected, and that he was a "terrible pilot," on the one hand, but
asserts that he was "operation's most experienced pilot," and
piloted Flight 77 through a 330-degree spiral dive maneuver, on
the other.
The Report explains that the suicide terrorists chose not to target
a nuclear power plant because they "thought a nuclear target
would be difficult because the airspace around it was restricted,
making reconnaissance flights impossible and increasing the
likelihood that any plane would be shot down before impact." (p
245) It fails to apply the same logic to their targeting of the
Pentagon, which, being the heart of the US military, is
presumably even better defended than a nuclear power plant.
The Report addresses the question of why George W. Bush
remained in the publicly known location of the Sarasota school
until 9:35 AM -- a half hour after the second Tower strike -- by
relating that Bush "told us his instinct was to project calm, not to
have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of
crisis," (p38) and that the Secret service "told us they were
anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not
think it imperative for him to run out the door." (p39) The
Report implicitly accepts these explanations as satisfactory,
thereby implying that for Bush to have taken any less than a
half hour to leave the school would have required him to display
an excited reaction and to "run out the door."
This list only touches on some of the more obvious omissions from
the Report. Even Griffin's book -- the most thorough critique of
the Report to date -- is far from exhaustive. In 2005, Griffin wrote
The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie , which provides 115
points on which the Report lies, either explicitly or implicitly.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#51111
Apr 26, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
Omissions
The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel-framed high-rise
building has ever collapsed due to fires .
The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-
framed skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack.
The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the
owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department
decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a
conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents.
...
Trying to "justify" the official version on 9/11? Are you?

It is like a sieve with 1000 holes in it, like a Swiss Cheese.

Just wait for another generation and the truth would come out, no one will be able to digest the Official Version for more number of years.

The damage which GWB the Great did to America would take more than 100 years to heal.

And it all started much before 9/11. The planning and execution of that was beyond the imaginations of those 19 Hijackers, who could not think that far.

Very deep conspiracy and very deep are the roots. Just wait till they come out.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#51112
Apr 26, 2013
 
PS:

For starters, to justify each objection, you need a "different explanation"

It seems Plane Hijacking and Air defense was "Unknown" in USA prior to 9/11.

It seems after the end of Cold war, every one went to sleep in USA.

This is the image of Mighty USA and its preparation to meet the dooms day!!

When they will "again" go back to sleep mode?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#51113
Apr 26, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
None, you have only attempted to split hairs or stated a differing opion.
Thats because you are a LOON

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#51114
Apr 26, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The key in the quote your provided for me was the belief in a concept and the rejection of evidence-based thinking.
The fact that it made Karl Marx happy was just a bonus.

The rear legs of the sheep fit nicely in the boots and then they can't run away....or so I hear.
That is not conspiracy theorizing then. That is just using something other than empiracism as the basis of your thinking.

Can the sheep at least two step?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#51115
Apr 26, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it is the government that comes up with the conspiracy theory, like on 9/11.
The book "9/11 omissions and distortions" is about what facts the 9/11 commission considered and those that they decided to leave out.
So picture a jury getting to see certain evidence but not allowed to consider certain other evidence.
A different verdict can conclude when evidence is withheld.
So many conspiracy theorists point out facts that were not considered. by the commission.
Plus the commission started with a conclusion and worked back to the beginning, instead of start to finish and a conclusion based on evidence.
"......The crucial difference between having a preconceived notion — we all do that, of course — and conspiratorial thinking is when you get into that self-sealing reasoning and ignore every piece of evidence that is pointing the other way, when you’re starting to broaden the circle of conspirators, and when your skepticism gets to be nihilistic — when you believe absolutely nothing that the government or the media is saying — that’s when you’ve crossed the line...."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/why_people_be...
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51116
Apr 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Those who outright dismiss every conspiracy as a product of imagination without proper thought or investigation and who accept as truth the official version of events are braindead and superficial individuals.
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51117
Apr 26, 2013
 
Evidence can be fixed, destroyed or hidden given the agenda the government has in mind. Take for instance, the death toll of any well-publicized tragedy - are the actual number of the dead reported in the press who toe the official line? Usually, the numbers are rigged or downplayed depending on the severity of the event and its impact on public opinion or in keeping with strategic reasons or in accordance with the agenda of the authorities. So, those sub-intellectuals like Frijoles, Voluntarist, COR and others who invariably quote official versions and who stick like leeches to the official storyline cannot be taken seriously and are the seriously braindead posters here . They should be pitied.,
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51118
Apr 26, 2013
 
not Voluntarist.
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51119
Apr 26, 2013
 
SUB-INTELLECTUALS ON THIS THREAD:

1) MUQ

2) Frijoles

3) Eric

4) Hugh.

5) Liam R

6) COR
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51120
Apr 26, 2013
 
RELIGIOUS FANATICS ON THIS THREAD:

1) MUQ

2) Frijoles

3) Eric

4) Hugh
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51121
Apr 26, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not conspiracy theorizing then. That is just using something other than empiracism as the basis of your thinking.
Can the sheep at least two step?
Correct. Never said it was.

A similar cognitive scheme enables the belief in religion and/or conspiracy theories (belief in a concept while actively rejecting evidence-based thinking ..."immune to evidence" your quote said ).

I believe you were pointing out how conspiracy believers are somehow out of touch with reality?

The sheep can do the walk of shame after the nightmare is over. And Huggy is finished.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#51122
Apr 26, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. Never said it was.
A similar cognitive scheme enables the belief in religion and/or conspiracy theories (belief in a concept while actively rejecting evidence-based thinking ..."immune to evidence" your quote said ).
I believe you were pointing out how conspiracy believers are somehow out of touch with reality?

The sheep can do the walk of shame after the nightmare is over. And Huggy is finished.
You are correct - I jumped ahead too quickly. However, in defense, you are also generalizing a bit, I think you are targeting religious extremists not religious in general. Its that acknowledgement of faith vs being oblivious thing again. Literally, being of faith means that you consciously accept the scriptures as testament and proceed from there....that is not being immune to evidence, that is accepting declaration the starting point of evidence..

In Huggys case, it would most decidedly not be a two step. Definitely a walk of shame.

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