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Voluntarist

United States

#51108 Apr 25, 2013
Falsehoods
The Report's Notes state: "the interior core of the [Twin Towers]
was a hollow steel shaft, in which the elevators and stairwells
were grouped." In fact, the core structures were composed of
bundles of steel columns numbering 47 and having outside
dimensions, in most cases, of 36 by 16 inches and 54 by 22
inches.
The Report states that the "South Tower collapsed in ten
seconds," when it actually took about 15 seconds. While one
might expect that the Commission would overstate rather than
understate the collapse time, the fact that the Commission did
not even consider a collapse time within one second of the
vacuum free-fall time of 9.2 seconds a problem for the official
explanation is evidence that the Commission would endorse that
explanation no matter what the facts.
Regarding the failure to promptly move George W. Bush from the
known location of the Sarasota classroom, the Report states that
"No one in the traveling party had any information during this
time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing." Yet, according
to evidence assembled by David Griffin, the Secret Service has
open lines to the FAA, whose top operations people in the
northeast corridor thought that as many as 11 planes had been
hijacked. 2
The Report states: "The threat of terrorists hijacking commercial
airliners within the United States -- and using them as guided
missiles -- was not recognized by NORAD before 9/11." (The
Report repeats the assertion three times.) Yet media reports, such
as the USA Today article entitled "NORAD had drills of jets as
weapons" describe pre-9/11 NORAD drills involving hijacked
jetliners crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
3
The Report states: "The protocols did not contemplate an
intercept. They assumed the fighter escort would be discreet,
'vectored to a position five miles directly behind the hijacked
aircraft,' where it could perform its mission to monitor the
aircraft's flight path." Yet the order referenced by the footnote
for this statement (Order 7610.4J: Special Military Operations),
states:
7-2-1. FACILITY NOTIFICATION
The FAA hijack coordinator will advise the appropriate center/
control tower of the identification of the military unit and
location tasked to provide the hijack escort. The center/control
tower shall coordinate with the designated NORAD SOCC/ROCC/
military unit advising of the hijack aircraft's location,
direction of flight, altitude, type aircraft and recommended
flight plan to intercept the hijack aircraft . The center/
control tower shall file the coordinated flight plan. 4
To address the charge that Saudi nationals were flown out of
the country before the post-9/11 flight ban was lifted, the Report
states: "we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals,
domestic or international, took place before the reopening of
national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001." In fact
national airspace was only open to commercial airliners on a
case-by-case basis on September 13, 2001. It was not until
September 15th that the skies were opened to general aviation
(privately owned aircraft). 5 Yet the Lear Jet that flew Saudi
nationals from Tampa, FL to Lexington, KY on September 13th
was a private plane. 6
Voluntarist

United States

#51109 Apr 25, 2013
Contradictions
The Report notes that Hani Hanjour's pilot application was
rejected, and that he was a "terrible pilot," on the one hand, but
asserts that he was "operation's most experienced pilot," and
piloted Flight 77 through a 330-degree spiral dive maneuver, on
the other.
The Report explains that the suicide terrorists chose not to target
a nuclear power plant because they "thought a nuclear target
would be difficult because the airspace around it was restricted,
making reconnaissance flights impossible and increasing the
likelihood that any plane would be shot down before impact." (p
245) It fails to apply the same logic to their targeting of the
Pentagon, which, being the heart of the US military, is
presumably even better defended than a nuclear power plant.
The Report addresses the question of why George W. Bush
remained in the publicly known location of the Sarasota school
until 9:35 AM -- a half hour after the second Tower strike -- by
relating that Bush "told us his instinct was to project calm, not to
have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of
crisis," (p38) and that the Secret service "told us they were
anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not
think it imperative for him to run out the door." (p39) The
Report implicitly accepts these explanations as satisfactory,
thereby implying that for Bush to have taken any less than a
half hour to leave the school would have required him to display
an excited reaction and to "run out the door."
This list only touches on some of the more obvious omissions from
the Report. Even Griffin's book -- the most thorough critique of
the Report to date -- is far from exhaustive. In 2005, Griffin wrote
The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie , which provides 115
points on which the Report lies, either explicitly or implicitly.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#51111 Apr 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
Omissions
The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel-framed high-rise
building has ever collapsed due to fires .
The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-
framed skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack.
The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the
owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department
decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a
conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents.
...
Trying to "justify" the official version on 9/11? Are you?

It is like a sieve with 1000 holes in it, like a Swiss Cheese.

Just wait for another generation and the truth would come out, no one will be able to digest the Official Version for more number of years.

The damage which GWB the Great did to America would take more than 100 years to heal.

And it all started much before 9/11. The planning and execution of that was beyond the imaginations of those 19 Hijackers, who could not think that far.

Very deep conspiracy and very deep are the roots. Just wait till they come out.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#51112 Apr 26, 2013
PS:

For starters, to justify each objection, you need a "different explanation"

It seems Plane Hijacking and Air defense was "Unknown" in USA prior to 9/11.

It seems after the end of Cold war, every one went to sleep in USA.

This is the image of Mighty USA and its preparation to meet the dooms day!!

When they will "again" go back to sleep mode?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51113 Apr 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
None, you have only attempted to split hairs or stated a differing opion.
Thats because you are a LOON

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51114 Apr 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The key in the quote your provided for me was the belief in a concept and the rejection of evidence-based thinking.
The fact that it made Karl Marx happy was just a bonus.

The rear legs of the sheep fit nicely in the boots and then they can't run away....or so I hear.
That is not conspiracy theorizing then. That is just using something other than empiracism as the basis of your thinking.

Can the sheep at least two step?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51115 Apr 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it is the government that comes up with the conspiracy theory, like on 9/11.
The book "9/11 omissions and distortions" is about what facts the 9/11 commission considered and those that they decided to leave out.
So picture a jury getting to see certain evidence but not allowed to consider certain other evidence.
A different verdict can conclude when evidence is withheld.
So many conspiracy theorists point out facts that were not considered. by the commission.
Plus the commission started with a conclusion and worked back to the beginning, instead of start to finish and a conclusion based on evidence.
"......The crucial difference between having a preconceived notion — we all do that, of course — and conspiratorial thinking is when you get into that self-sealing reasoning and ignore every piece of evidence that is pointing the other way, when you’re starting to broaden the circle of conspirators, and when your skepticism gets to be nihilistic — when you believe absolutely nothing that the government or the media is saying — that’s when you’ve crossed the line...."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/why_people_be...
JOEL

India

#51116 Apr 26, 2013
Those who outright dismiss every conspiracy as a product of imagination without proper thought or investigation and who accept as truth the official version of events are braindead and superficial individuals.
JOEL

India

#51117 Apr 26, 2013
Evidence can be fixed, destroyed or hidden given the agenda the government has in mind. Take for instance, the death toll of any well-publicized tragedy - are the actual number of the dead reported in the press who toe the official line? Usually, the numbers are rigged or downplayed depending on the severity of the event and its impact on public opinion or in keeping with strategic reasons or in accordance with the agenda of the authorities. So, those sub-intellectuals like Frijoles, Voluntarist, COR and others who invariably quote official versions and who stick like leeches to the official storyline cannot be taken seriously and are the seriously braindead posters here . They should be pitied.,
JOEL

India

#51118 Apr 26, 2013
not Voluntarist.
JOEL

India

#51119 Apr 26, 2013
SUB-INTELLECTUALS ON THIS THREAD:

1) MUQ

2) Frijoles

3) Eric

4) Hugh.

5) Liam R

6) COR
JOEL

India

#51120 Apr 26, 2013
RELIGIOUS FANATICS ON THIS THREAD:

1) MUQ

2) Frijoles

3) Eric

4) Hugh
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51121 Apr 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not conspiracy theorizing then. That is just using something other than empiracism as the basis of your thinking.
Can the sheep at least two step?
Correct. Never said it was.

A similar cognitive scheme enables the belief in religion and/or conspiracy theories (belief in a concept while actively rejecting evidence-based thinking ..."immune to evidence" your quote said ).

I believe you were pointing out how conspiracy believers are somehow out of touch with reality?

The sheep can do the walk of shame after the nightmare is over. And Huggy is finished.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51122 Apr 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. Never said it was.
A similar cognitive scheme enables the belief in religion and/or conspiracy theories (belief in a concept while actively rejecting evidence-based thinking ..."immune to evidence" your quote said ).
I believe you were pointing out how conspiracy believers are somehow out of touch with reality?

The sheep can do the walk of shame after the nightmare is over. And Huggy is finished.
You are correct - I jumped ahead too quickly. However, in defense, you are also generalizing a bit, I think you are targeting religious extremists not religious in general. Its that acknowledgement of faith vs being oblivious thing again. Literally, being of faith means that you consciously accept the scriptures as testament and proceed from there....that is not being immune to evidence, that is accepting declaration the starting point of evidence..

In Huggys case, it would most decidedly not be a two step. Definitely a walk of shame.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51123 Apr 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Those who outright dismiss every conspiracy as a product of imagination without proper thought or investigation and who accept as truth the official version of events are braindead and superficial individuals.
How many years did you waste in a vain attempt to follow your Master?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51124 Apr 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct - I jumped ahead too quickly. However, in defense, you are also generalizing a bit, I think you are targeting religious extremists not religious in general. Its that acknowledgement of faith vs being oblivious thing again. Literally, being of faith means that you consciously accept the scriptures as testament and proceed from there....that is not being immune to evidence, that is accepting declaration the starting point of evidence..
In Huggys case, it would most decidedly not be a two step. Definitely a walk of shame.
The very definition of faith involves belief without proof/evidence:

faith

/f&#257;TH/

Noun

1.Com plete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2.Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.


To go back to our friend's example:

Is there anymore evidence for any religious foundation than there is for the Easter bunny?

The fact that this is done "consciously" and in an "accepting" way as you say, I have no doubt of. But I also don't think this argues against my point.
Eric

South Elgin, IL

#51125 Apr 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
SUB-INTELLECTUALS ON THIS THREAD:
1) MUQ
2) Frijoles
3) Eric
4) Hugh.
5) Liam R
6) COR
Stupid people who have been taken advantage of by others

1) Joel

Since: Jan 12

Europe

#51126 Apr 26, 2013
FINALLY, someone has made it quick, simple, and easy to sell the stuff you no longer need for cash (or great products)! Get a FREE listing at: http://www.tripleclicks.com/11588688/go
IceCreamCohen

Hackettstown, NJ

#51127 Apr 26, 2013
But Jews DO proselytize, in other ways. By telling Christians tat they have to "love" and "support" Israel and the Jews, that is literally proselytization - b/c it is done to further a Jewish agenda. When Jews put eruvs around an entire town, forcing Christians to live within what is now symbolically a Jewish "home", that's proselytizing. When Jews force companies to ensure that their food is kosher (under threat of mass boycott), the company has to then 1) change to kosher practices and 2) hire rabbis to stand around all overseeing the practices. This costs money and is a burden. It also means that Christians are forced to eat kosher food; I've heard Jews and others complain about having to eat halal food without permission; therefore, if Jews feel halal is objectionable, kosher, which is nearly identical, must also be objectionable. Lastly, Christians are forced to pay higher taxes to support Israel, so that Israel (a socialist nation, by the way) can let orthodox males collect welfare. This way, they can read Torah and Talmud all day every day rather than work. That is religious coercion; Christians are literally being forced to fund Jewish religious studies!
Voluntarist

United States

#51128 Apr 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
"......The crucial difference between having a preconceived notion — we all do that, of course — and conspiratorial thinking is when you get into that self-sealing reasoning and ignore every piece of evidence that is pointing the other way, when you’re starting to broaden the circle of conspirators, and when your skepticism gets to be nihilistic — when you believe absolutely nothing that the government or the media is saying — that’s when you’ve crossed the line...."
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/24/why_people_be...
Actually most of us that looked at 9/11 looked at it from the biased view of the " official story" . 9/11 turned many people into non-believers of government rhetoric, myself included.
Prior to 9/11 i accepted the official theater news story because i was under the silly impression that the media always had to tell the truth.

This self-sealing reasoning speaks of exactly what those that believe in governmemt explanations express, when faced with facts they can not accept the fact that governments lie, especially to get into wars.
Its a reification process, and lots of people including you can not fathom that men and women calling themselves government lie.

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