Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72024 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

former res

Cheshire, CT

#51094 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
.... and itís psychologically different from evidence-based thinking. A conspiracy theory is immune to evidence, and that can pretty well serve as the definition of one. If you reject evidence, or reinterpret the evidence to be confirmation of your theory [belief], or you ignore mountains of evidence to focus on just one thing .....
Sounds a lot like religion - both Testaments!

How are things downstate? Nice up here in New Haven County.

Did I see Huggybear lurking around here again?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51095 Apr 25, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds a lot like religion - both Testaments!
How are things downstate? Nice up here in New Haven County.
Did I see Huggybear lurking around here again?
Huggybear is around, tie up your goats

Downstate is downstate of upstate

Yes, that evidence based thinking thingie.....but most religious people don't link their deity as part of a larger conspiracy. Perhaps they should.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51096 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Huggybear is around, tie up your goats
Downstate is downstate of upstate
Yes, that evidence based thinking thingie.....but most religious people don't link their deity as part of a larger conspiracy. Perhaps they should.
The full quote from Karl Marx is: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_peo...

Huggy might like his victims tied up!

Then we can get into sheep jokes an why sheep herders wear cowboy boots etc

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51097 Apr 25, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The full quote from Karl Marx is: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_peo...
Huggy might like his victims tied up!
Then we can get into sheep jokes an why sheep herders wear cowboy boots etc
You are mixing your concepts. It doesnt count if you have the conspiracy theory. Only if the religious person does.

Why DO sheep herders wear cowboy boots?
Voluntarist

United States

#51098 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that article had a specific topic, and lets stay on that topic for a change.
It proposed a modal personality and suggested several ways to sustain that personality. Was there anything in that article you really objected to? One of the more interesting things I got from it is that conspiracy theorists conjure their ideas up as a need to control their reality. Is that the case with you?
Yes i object to the whole thing because it refers to conspiracy theories not being evidence based.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#51099 Apr 25, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes i object to the whole thing because it refers to conspiracy theories not being evidence based.
Unfortunately few seem to care considering how ridiculously popular conspiracy theories are.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51100 Apr 25, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes i object to the whole thing because it refers to conspiracy theories not being evidence based.
You know how many times we have presented corrections to you?
Voluntarist

United States

#51101 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You know how many times we have presented corrections to you?
None, you have only attempted to split hairs or stated a differing opion.
Voluntarist

United States

#51102 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You know how many times we have presented corrections to you?
Opinion that is.

And when i say that there are influentual people aspiring to create a one world government, you say thats a conspiracy theory, i prove it to you and then you poo poo it.
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#51103 Apr 25, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Opinion that is.
And when i say that there are influentual people aspiring to create a one world government, you say thats a conspiracy theory, i prove it to you and then you poo poo it.
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51104 Apr 25, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mixing your concepts. It doesnt count if you have the conspiracy theory. Only if the religious person does.
Why DO sheep herders wear cowboy boots?
The key in the quote your provided for me was the belief in a concept and the rejection of evidence-based thinking.

The fact that it made Karl Marx happy was just a bonus.

The rear legs of the sheep fit nicely in the boots and then they can't run away....or so I hear.
Voluntarist

United States

#51105 Apr 25, 2013
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
There are facts, even seemingly circumstantial facts can lead a person of above average intelligence to disbelieve the "official story".

NORAD was running drills on 9/11, when the hijackers actually hijacked the planes it caused mass confusion, recordings of the controllers asking "is this real world or exercise".

Building 7 fell straight to the ground in the path of most resistance at free fall speed.
Voluntarist

United States

#51106 Apr 25, 2013
The Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
What "proof" is ever any solid proof in most conspiracy theories?
Actually it is the government that comes up with the conspiracy theory, like on 9/11.

The book "9/11 omissions and distortions" is about what facts the 9/11 commission considered and those that they decided to leave out.
So picture a jury getting to see certain evidence but not allowed to consider certain other evidence.
A different verdict can conclude when evidence is withheld.

So many conspiracy theorists point out facts that were not considered. by the commission.

Plus the commission started with a conclusion and worked back to the beginning, instead of start to finish and a conclusion based on evidence.
Voluntarist

United States

#51107 Apr 25, 2013
Omissions
The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel-framed high-rise
building has ever collapsed due to fires .
The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-
framed skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack.
The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the
owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department
decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a
conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents.
The Report fails to mention the rapid removal and recycling of
the structural steel from the collapsed World Trade Center
buildings, even to make excuses for it.
The Report makes no mention of a statement by then-Mayor
Rudolph Giuliani to Peter Jennings indicating he had
foreknowledge of the collapses: "We were operating out of there
when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna
collapse, and it did collapse before we could get out of the
building."
The Report contains no mentions of eyewitness accounts of
explosions preceding the collapse of South Towers.
The Report fails to mention that George W. Bush's brother,
Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principals in
the company that had the contract to provide security for the
World Trade Center, Stratesec, nor does it mention the company.
The Report makes no mention of the fact that a new lessor took
control of the World Trade Center complex just six weeks before
the attack, obtained an insurance policy covering terrorist
attacks, and successfully sued the insurance companies to obtain
twice the multi-billion-dollar value of the policy.
The Report repeats the list of 19 suspects identified by the FBI
within days of the attack, while failing to mention that six of
them reported themselves alive after the attack .
The Report fails to mention any of the reports of behavior by the
alleged hijackers before the attack that belie the official story
that they were devout Muslims on a suicide mission for Allah.
The Report fails to mention that the published passenger lists
contained no Arab names -- a fact publicized by skeptics of the
official story.
The Report fails to ask why the plane that crashed into the
Pentagon was not stopped by anti-aircraft missile batteries that
presumably ring the building.
The Report fails to mention that no credible footage of the
Pentagon attack has been made public, despite public knowledge
that the FBI seized footage of the attack from nearby businesses .
The Report does not ask why the Secret Service did not obtain air
cover for the President's motorcade from the Sarasota school to
the airport, nor for Air Force One, which took off at about 9:54,
until about 11:10.
The Report avoids mentioning several reports that government
officials and business leaders received warnings and avoided
targets of the attacks, including:
A warning by the FBI advising Attorney General John
Ashcroft to avoid flying on commercial airlines.
The report that Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel
plans the evening before the attack.
A warning to San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to avoid
flying.
The grounding of Salman Rushdie by Scotland Yard.
The Report avoids mentioning a warning received by employees
of Odigo hours before the attack.
The Report does not mention that letters with weaponized
anthrax were sent to the two most powerful senators attempting
to slow the passage of the 9/11/01 attack-predicated USA
PATRIOT Act.
The Report states that the Commission was "chartered to prepare
a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding
the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness
for and the immediate response to the attacks," but fails to
mention that it makes no attempt to meet its charter.

http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/commissio...
Voluntarist

United States

#51108 Apr 25, 2013
Falsehoods
The Report's Notes state: "the interior core of the [Twin Towers]
was a hollow steel shaft, in which the elevators and stairwells
were grouped." In fact, the core structures were composed of
bundles of steel columns numbering 47 and having outside
dimensions, in most cases, of 36 by 16 inches and 54 by 22
inches.
The Report states that the "South Tower collapsed in ten
seconds," when it actually took about 15 seconds. While one
might expect that the Commission would overstate rather than
understate the collapse time, the fact that the Commission did
not even consider a collapse time within one second of the
vacuum free-fall time of 9.2 seconds a problem for the official
explanation is evidence that the Commission would endorse that
explanation no matter what the facts.
Regarding the failure to promptly move George W. Bush from the
known location of the Sarasota classroom, the Report states that
"No one in the traveling party had any information during this
time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing." Yet, according
to evidence assembled by David Griffin, the Secret Service has
open lines to the FAA, whose top operations people in the
northeast corridor thought that as many as 11 planes had been
hijacked. 2
The Report states: "The threat of terrorists hijacking commercial
airliners within the United States -- and using them as guided
missiles -- was not recognized by NORAD before 9/11." (The
Report repeats the assertion three times.) Yet media reports, such
as the USA Today article entitled "NORAD had drills of jets as
weapons" describe pre-9/11 NORAD drills involving hijacked
jetliners crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
3
The Report states: "The protocols did not contemplate an
intercept. They assumed the fighter escort would be discreet,
'vectored to a position five miles directly behind the hijacked
aircraft,' where it could perform its mission to monitor the
aircraft's flight path." Yet the order referenced by the footnote
for this statement (Order 7610.4J: Special Military Operations),
states:
7-2-1. FACILITY NOTIFICATION
The FAA hijack coordinator will advise the appropriate center/
control tower of the identification of the military unit and
location tasked to provide the hijack escort. The center/control
tower shall coordinate with the designated NORAD SOCC/ROCC/
military unit advising of the hijack aircraft's location,
direction of flight, altitude, type aircraft and recommended
flight plan to intercept the hijack aircraft . The center/
control tower shall file the coordinated flight plan. 4
To address the charge that Saudi nationals were flown out of
the country before the post-9/11 flight ban was lifted, the Report
states: "we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals,
domestic or international, took place before the reopening of
national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001." In fact
national airspace was only open to commercial airliners on a
case-by-case basis on September 13, 2001. It was not until
September 15th that the skies were opened to general aviation
(privately owned aircraft). 5 Yet the Lear Jet that flew Saudi
nationals from Tampa, FL to Lexington, KY on September 13th
was a private plane. 6
Voluntarist

United States

#51109 Apr 25, 2013
Contradictions
The Report notes that Hani Hanjour's pilot application was
rejected, and that he was a "terrible pilot," on the one hand, but
asserts that he was "operation's most experienced pilot," and
piloted Flight 77 through a 330-degree spiral dive maneuver, on
the other.
The Report explains that the suicide terrorists chose not to target
a nuclear power plant because they "thought a nuclear target
would be difficult because the airspace around it was restricted,
making reconnaissance flights impossible and increasing the
likelihood that any plane would be shot down before impact." (p
245) It fails to apply the same logic to their targeting of the
Pentagon, which, being the heart of the US military, is
presumably even better defended than a nuclear power plant.
The Report addresses the question of why George W. Bush
remained in the publicly known location of the Sarasota school
until 9:35 AM -- a half hour after the second Tower strike -- by
relating that Bush "told us his instinct was to project calm, not to
have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of
crisis," (p38) and that the Secret service "told us they were
anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not
think it imperative for him to run out the door." (p39) The
Report implicitly accepts these explanations as satisfactory,
thereby implying that for Bush to have taken any less than a
half hour to leave the school would have required him to display
an excited reaction and to "run out the door."
This list only touches on some of the more obvious omissions from
the Report. Even Griffin's book -- the most thorough critique of
the Report to date -- is far from exhaustive. In 2005, Griffin wrote
The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie , which provides 115
points on which the Report lies, either explicitly or implicitly.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#51111 Apr 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
Omissions
The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel-framed high-rise
building has ever collapsed due to fires .
The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-
framed skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack.
The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the
owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department
decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a
conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents.
...
Trying to "justify" the official version on 9/11? Are you?

It is like a sieve with 1000 holes in it, like a Swiss Cheese.

Just wait for another generation and the truth would come out, no one will be able to digest the Official Version for more number of years.

The damage which GWB the Great did to America would take more than 100 years to heal.

And it all started much before 9/11. The planning and execution of that was beyond the imaginations of those 19 Hijackers, who could not think that far.

Very deep conspiracy and very deep are the roots. Just wait till they come out.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#51112 Apr 26, 2013
PS:

For starters, to justify each objection, you need a "different explanation"

It seems Plane Hijacking and Air defense was "Unknown" in USA prior to 9/11.

It seems after the end of Cold war, every one went to sleep in USA.

This is the image of Mighty USA and its preparation to meet the dooms day!!

When they will "again" go back to sleep mode?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51113 Apr 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
None, you have only attempted to split hairs or stated a differing opion.
Thats because you are a LOON

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51114 Apr 26, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The key in the quote your provided for me was the belief in a concept and the rejection of evidence-based thinking.
The fact that it made Karl Marx happy was just a bonus.

The rear legs of the sheep fit nicely in the boots and then they can't run away....or so I hear.
That is not conspiracy theorizing then. That is just using something other than empiracism as the basis of your thinking.

Can the sheep at least two step?

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