Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71939 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50244 Mar 21, 2013
DEFINE:

1) God

2) Prophet

3) Reality

4) Creation from nothing

(smiles)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50246 Mar 21, 2013
"To be a member of the Communist Party is to have a taste of the police state. "

- ELIA KAZAN

(Hollywood director, 1909-2003)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50247 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL - To live under Sharia is worse.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50248 Mar 21, 2013
"While Hollywood never seems to tire of movies that vilify the Nazis and, more recently, the Arabs and the Muslims, it is yet to produce anything [negative] about the (Jews and the) Soviet bloc that begins to compare to the French movie, Est-Ouest (East-West), or the German movie, Das Leben der Anderen (The Lives of Others)."

- Dave Martin
ana

London, UK

#50249 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL wrote:
JOEL - To live under Sharia is worse.
No country practises sharia law correctly, unfortunately we live in a period of capitalist detriment

Peace
ana

London, UK

#50250 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL wrote:
"While Hollywood never seems to tire of movies that vilify the Nazis and, more recently, the Arabs and the Muslims, it is yet to produce anything [negative] about the (Jews and the) Soviet bloc that begins to compare to the French movie, Est-Ouest (East-West), or the German movie, Das Leben der Anderen (The Lives of Others)."

- Dave Martin
I come across things regularly that vilify Jewish people, it is something quite cowardly and repulsive to be so pre-judgemental

Unfortunately we are evolving towards an almost tribalistic movement, where each individual is pigeon holed and treated according to their acclaimed stereotype...... Very dangerous indeed..
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50251 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

No country practises sharia law correctly, unfortunately we live in a period of capitalist detriment.
What is the correct application of Sharia law?

Why is capitalism a bad practice?

Do you prefer barter as it was practiced in the dark ages of the prophets?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50252 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

I come across things regularly that vilify Jewish people, it is something quite cowardly and repulsive to be so pre-judgemental
Unfortunately we are evolving towards an almost tribalistic movement, where each individual is pigeon holed and treated according to their acclaimed stereotype...... Very dangerous indeed..
Yes, every community should be treated fairly and if you happen to vilify one then do so with the rest otherwise refrain from showing any particular community in a bad light on screen.

In an intellectual debate, however, the pros and cons of each faith or scripture or prophet or community can be analyzed in depth as a way of getting at the truth in an impartial manner.
ana

London, UK

#50253 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>What is the correct application of Sharia law?

Why is capitalism a bad practice?

Do you prefer barter as it was practiced in the dark ages of the prophets?
The correct application of sharia law is way too extensive to discuss here

But I can assure you that sharia law as it is represented today is a far cry of how it should be implemented

For example in Iran they supposedly follow a form of Islamic law, I am not sure it they define it totally as sharia law, but their conduct and records of abuses of human rights is deplorable and does not represent the purity of Islam and the true sharia

Capitalism

Be it bad or positive, capitalism aims to capitalise, using such a notion to encourage economic growth surpassing social welfare will only ever be short lived. See it like this

If you are given only fifty pounds to spend on food for a whole month, but u go and blow all that money in the first week eating what ever you want, then for the remaining three weeks you will have nothing...
Opposed to reserving and spending proportionally

Unfortunate society has been encouraged to become consumer orientated, loans and credit cards have given many a false sense of reality when it comes to spending

So for the me capital ideology represents greed, which sidelines socialist principles

Pure socialist principles wouldn't work either, communism looks great on paper but in practice it is repressive

There needs to be a total balance

It's not just the system that needs changing it is the attitudes of people which need to be radically reformed, how we achieve this I have no idea!!
ana

London, UK

#50254 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, every community should be treated fairly and if you happen to vilify one then do so with the rest otherwise refrain from showing any particular community in a bad light on screen.

In an intellectual debate, however, the pros and cons of each faith or scripture or prophet or community can be analyzed in depth as a way of getting at the truth in an impartial manner.
Yes I agree the western media has been biased often representing Islam, Muslims, Arabs as terrorists in movies

I remember in the film back to the future the Libyan terrorists... So even back then the USA had a gripe with Qaddafi and this was represented in that particular movie. There are also many other examples.

I was however pointing out that I have come across people / media vilifying Jews and stereotyping them, which is also just as immoral.

Unfortunately I have observed that films / TV and the news have had a somewhat detrimental affect on a persons ability to judge a community on face value, rather than a stereotype.

Call it a form of brainwashing if you wish, there was a rather disturbing documentary I watched on YouTube which recounted nazi Germany and the propaganda campaigns used to vilify and justify the awful acts towards the Jews and Roma people ....

It's just scary that people can be so easily manipulated still to this day

Same goes for Muslims who radicalise themselves and feel it is quite acceptable to launch a hateful campaign against innocent people....I'm sorry but that is not the true Islam

So you see generalisation can be a very dangerous habit we should actively encourage others not to participate as such
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50255 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

The correct application of sharia law is way too extensive to discuss here.
Give a few highlights of pure Sharia as you put it - as for instance:

1) Can something as absurd as creation from nothing as preached by the Quran be taught in schools and universities?

2) What is the position of religious minorities, atheists and people with same sex orinetation in an Islamic nation run on Sharia principles?

3) Is it necessary to institute death penalty for those who question the veracity of the teachings of Quran and who point out the multiple errors in the teachings of that book?

4) In what way can Quran guide say a geneticist, an electrical engineer, a space scientist or computer architect?

5) Does it make sense to run a nation on benighted religious teachings that have neither a rational basis nor any proof in support of any of the mumbo jumbo teachings with the evidence coming in from science debuking the ignorant teachings of faith?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50256 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

Capitalism

Be it bad or positive, capitalism aims to capitalise, using such a notion to encourage economic growth surpassing social welfare will only ever be short lived. See it like this
If you are given only fifty pounds to spend on food for a whole month, but u go and blow all that money in the first week eating what ever you want, then for the remaining three weeks you will have nothing...
Opposed to reserving and spending proportionally
Unfortunate society has been encouraged to become consumer orientated, loans and credit cards have given many a false sense of reality when it comes to spending
So for the me capital ideology represents greed, which sidelines socialist principles
Pure socialist principles wouldn't work either, communism looks great on paper but in practice it is repressive
There needs to be a total balance
It's not just the system that needs changing it is the attitudes of people which need to be radically reformed, how we achieve this I have no idea!!
Capitalism is good for enterprise, entrepreneurship and for creation of wealth according to one's innate capacity for money-making. In this sense, it is merit-based and makes one a hardworking and a responsible citizen and does not seek to create a society of lazy bums and socio-economic parasites living on state handouts.

Greed and exploitation should obviously have no place in capitalism, socialism or barter.

Consumerism is in keeping with the great material advances made by technology or should people stick to spartan living like say subsisting on dates and riding a camel instead of dining on pate d'foie gras and driving in a Rolls?
ana

London, UK

#50257 Mar 21, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>Give a few highlights of pure Sharia as you put it - as for instance:

1) Can something as absurd as creation from nothing as preached by the Quran be taught in schools and universities?

2) What is the position of religious minorities, atheists and people with same sex orinetation in an Islamic nation run on Sharia principles?

3) Is it necessary to institute death penalty for those who question the veracity of the teachings of Quran and who point out the multiple errors in the teachings of that book?

4) In what way can Quran guide say a geneticist, an electrical engineer, a space scientist or computer architect?

5) Does it make sense to run a nation on benighted religious teachings that have neither a rational basis nor any proof in support of any of the mumbo jumbo teachings with the evidence coming in from science debuking the ignorant teachings of faith?
Sorry I am not going to discuss all of that here as I really don't have time to go into such detail Joel, maybe another time , these could all be titles for dissertations therefore cannot be summarised on here in a few paragraphs
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50258 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

Sorry I am not going to discuss all of that here as I really don't have time to go into such detail Joel, maybe another time , these could all be titles for dissertations therefore cannot be summarised on here in a few paragraphs.

Ok.

(smiles)
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#50259 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>
No country practises sharia law correctly, unfortunately we live in a period of capitalist detriment
Peace
rabbee: all demonic laws, are not meant to be precisely practiced. as long as you follow any demonic law, there shall always be law breakers. so you can throw them in jail or fine them, for not following your demonic laws.

all laws of alleged as men, are demonic critter laws. as long as there is even one law breaker, then this world is not doing as G-D desires for us all. for this whole world again, has failed to enter into GanEden.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#50260 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>
I come across things regularly that vilify Jewish people, it is something quite cowardly and repulsive to be so pre-judgemental
Unfortunately we are evolving towards an almost tribalistic movement, where each individual is pigeon holed and treated according to their acclaimed stereotype...... Very dangerous indeed..
rabbee: you are living in a world of villains, that can only vilify each other. if you are not really true to G-D here in TheTorah, then you are a demonic villain critter.
for i have not yet, met even so much as one person, true to G-D here in this story of ThePhysical Creation again. for the last two Torot times, all of you and your grandmother lied. and you are still the same old liars again, pretending to not be here in TheStory from G-D.
ana

London, UK

#50261 Mar 21, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>rabbee: all demonic laws, are not meant to be precisely practiced. as long as you follow any demonic law, there shall always be law breakers. so you can throw them in jail or fine them, for not following your demonic laws.

all laws of alleged as men, are demonic critter laws. as long as there is even one law breaker, then this world is not doing as G-D desires for us all. for this whole world again, has failed to enter into GanEden.
Ok so let bankers rule the world and imply their laws

Your totally misguided and completely missing the point so ill not even take further notice
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50262 Mar 21, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>

I was however pointing out that I have come across people / media vilifying Jews and stereotyping them, which is also just as immoral.
Regarding the holocaust or the Hashoah....

I think there's much more to that event in history than what meets the eye.

Many of the actual truths and the behind-the-scenes manipulations and the true motives have been censored.....

Well, nature has its own way of paying back - if certain violent men calling themselves "god-inspired" patriarchs could, in the past, shamelessly and unconscientiously indulge in multiple gencocides against those communities who worshipped other gods resulting in the murder of whole populations then natural justice is sure to catch up with the perpetrators of these crimes, or with their future generations or with their co-religionists who think that those genocides of the past were acts of divinity and were as such justified and mind you the whole Tanakh is filled with such acts of extreme barbarism.

There is an indvidual causation or law of karma as well as a collective causation - you reap what you sow.

I have no sympathy for anyone.

Do good, receive good.

As such it's very important to keep gene lines free of distortion by shunning incest and hypogamy and by weeding out serious personality defects where personal uplift is concerned and if succeeding generations have to inherit good instincts, practice good deeds and make wise choices in life if one wishes to remain above crassness, savagery and destruction leading to a bad ending.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50263 Mar 21, 2013
QUESTION:

Why were the prophets and patriarchs born in the dark ages? Is it because they themselves were men of great ignorance and had evil personalities as seen in many of their savage life deeds as recorded in scriptures? Is it a case of like attracting like - barbaric prophets being born in the dark ages?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#50264 Mar 21, 2013
Good night.

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