Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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Since: Aug 11

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#48699
Feb 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S hamanism#Hypotheses_on_origins
Shamanic practices may originate as early as the Paleolithic, predating all organized religions,[81][82] and certainly as early as the Neolithic period.[82]
Early anthropologist studies theorise that shamanism developed as a magic practice to ensure a successful hunt or gathering of food. Evidence in caves and drawings on walls support indications that shamanism started during the Paleolithic era. One such picture featured a half-animal, with the face and legs of a man, with antlers and a tail of a stag.[83]
Archaeological evidence exists for Mesolithic shamanism.
The oldest know female Shaman grave in the world is located in the Czech Republic at Dolni Vestonice (National Geographic No 174 October 1988. Also In November 2008, researchers announced the discovery of a 12,000-year-old site in Israel that is perceived as one of the earliest known shaman burials. The elderly woman had been arranged on her side, with her legs apart and folded inward at the knee. Ten large stones were placed on the head, pelvis and arms. Among her unusual grave goods were 50 complete tortoise shells, a human foot, and certain body parts from animals such as a cow tail and eagle wings. Other animal remains came from a boar, leopard, and two martens. "It seems that the woman was perceived as being in a close relationship with these animal spirits", researchers noted. The grave was one of at least 28 at the site, located in a cave in lower Galilee and belonging to the Natufian culture, but is said to be unlike any other among the Natufians or in the Paleolithic period.[84]
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81^ Jean Clottes. "Shamanism in Prehistory". Bradshaw foundation. Retrieved 2008-03-11.
82^ a b Karl J. Narr. "Prehistoric religion". Britannica online encyclopedia 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-28.
83^ Winkelman, Michael. Shamanism: a Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2010. Print.
84^ "Earliest known shaman grave site found: study", reported by Reuters via Yahoo! News, November 4, 2008, archived. see.Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48700
Feb 6, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.
He also believes that Adam was a muslim.

Google Islam and shamanism. Its fascinating. There are many tribal peoples who combine both. Too many to list here.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48701
Feb 6, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.
One of the fundamental similarities of all shamanistic traditions is the use of altered states of consciousness to communicate with the spiritual realm. Sometimes this involves an intoxicant. Other times it involves a physical-mental activity such as drumming or dancing or chanting/singing. I think MUQ would be offended at this.
Eric

Lake Forest, IL

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#48702
Feb 6, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Makkah is OK, but you need a Visa to enter Makkah.
And that Visa is you declare with your mouth "ASHAD -U - AN LA ILAH A ILL A ALLAH MUHAMMAD AL RASOOL ALLAH"
i.e. "I bear witness that their is no deity to worship except Allah, and Mohammad is His Messenger".
messianic Jews, Normal Jews, Christians or people of any other faith can enter Makkah after fulfilling this Visa requirement.
Makkah is a sanctuary and safe place of Allah, it has to be kept pure and uncluttered. Should it not?
Thank you for verifying my point. The Messianics cannot live there because they do not believe that Muhammad is a Messenger.

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#48704
Feb 6, 2013
 

Judged:

1

JOEL wrote:
TACKLING MUSLIM RESISTANCE TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER:

2) Islam/Muslims will resist since they cherish abnormal beliefs and have dreams of converting the whole world to Islam as desired by that lunatic and pedophile, Muhammad.
But last year you stressed on the fact that he has never had a sexual intercourse with that child, Aisha.

Now, he is suddenly a pedophile?
former res

Broomall, PA

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#48705
Feb 6, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Since your man is UNABLE to apply the definition you do so now and answer this, in what way is Jesus a "DELUSION figure"?
There is no evidence he was the son of god.

In that sense, he is a delusion.

Unless you have some evidence of who he was.

Do you?
former res

Broomall, PA

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#48706
Feb 6, 2013
 

Judged:

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
While at it explain your man's/Frijoles' words i.e. "I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus."
Having explained it, integrate it into your previous assignment.
I believe, that like me, Frijoles believes that a man named Jesus existed, but that we have no evidence he was the son of god.

But no point in your asking me to expalain what Frijoles is saying to you.

You and I are now having our own conversation.

Call it "pillowtalk."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48707
Feb 6, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe, that like me, Frijoles believes that a man named Jesus existed, but that we have no evidence he was the son of god.
But no point in your asking me to expalain what Frijoles is saying to you.
You and I are now having our own conversation.
Call it "pillowtalk."
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.

A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.

Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.

Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48708
Feb 6, 2013
 
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

But last year you stressed on the fact that he has never had a sexual intercourse with that child, Aisha.

Now, he is suddenly a pedophile?
Hi!

Yes, I've changed my view on Muhammad and just about everything.

Maybe at times I am overreacting after feeling let down and betrayed by my master.

I was defending these bastards - the prophets/saints - and protecting them from defamation through my unwillingness to admit to all their deficiencies despite the great supraphysical powers they commanded but now the deliberately imposed blinkers are off and I am willing to denounce them.

From this perspective, I strongly suspect - a suspicion that is not new to me - that Krishna had physical relations with dozens of his female disciples since the raas leela enacted in Vrindavan was a yoga on the overmental down to the gross physical planes and so on...

I am even willing to call my ex-master horrible names after being subjected to the most horrific force attacks a couple of months ago after coming into direct contact with the vital being, Lam, that was invoked by the ace Illuminati occultist Aleister Crowley and a few others who activated a spatio-temporal portal with the vital world to bring down in even greater numbers the HVPs....

The way I suffered..... and despite calling on my master to save me, no help came my way and then when the attacks became life-threatening - I began fainting and mumbling to myself, going blind, began trembling uncontrollably, began vomiting blood on a repeated basis and could perceive my life energies being wilfully drained out of my body through the heart center by the vital being who had entered me and I could see it -.....To save myself from sure death I had to do something so drastic to shake off the being and only after indulging in that most horrible act did the attack recede as the powerful vital being was satisfied with my action that was pleasant to it....

I don't want to talk abut it....

I've quit the yoga ever since and have broken all contact with the ashram and my master.

However, the yogic experiences are continuing sponatenously till now without any effort being made by me....the experiences are still coming since the supramental mantra has taken deep root in my being.

Best Regards.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48709
Feb 6, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

And that Visa is you declare with your mouth "ASHAD -U - AN LA ILAH A ILL A ALLAH MUHAMMAD AL RASOOL ALLAH"
Petty beings like Allah, YHVH, Yama and others suffer from narcissistic personality disorder and inflated egoism and as such they want to be worshipped and adulated or else they rant and abuse and get down to cursing the "infidels", heretics and apostates.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48710
Feb 6, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

Makkah is a sanctuary and safe place of Allah, it has to be kept pure and uncluttered.
So, why couldn't the petty being, Allah, protect Mecca and the Kaaba with its phallic stone from being attacked and destroyed on many occasions in the past?

LOL.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48711
Feb 6, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

The OLDEST religion in the world is what was practised by Adam the first human on earth and it was Islam, nothing else.
So, the offspring of Adam and Eve procreated incestuously to propagate the human race?

Are you aware of the grave dangers involved in incest involving intimate relations like brothers and sisters?

Why don't you marry your own sister and produce a baby with her just as the progeny of Adam and Eve did by marrying and procreating among themselves?

Since: Aug 11

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#48712
Feb 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.
A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.
Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.
Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
Interesting perspective.

I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace.

And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48713
Feb 6, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting perspective.
I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace..
In other words, there is something to Homer Simpson after all (assuming one is intellectually courageous enough to separate the man from the mystical legend)
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.
I think there may be humanistic denominations of Christianity such as the Humanistic Society of Friends, a subgroup of the Quakers.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48714
Feb 6, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
First HI was with smiles and second HI when Smile was wiped off the face?
So, what?

I am not used to dealing with scum like you.

In South Mumbai where I live, a guy like you who's uncultured, unintelligent, unclassy, impoverished, fanatical and a person with the personality of a slum dweller would be looked down upon as a servant or menial help.

To be brutally frank, a low class character like you is not fit to polish my shoes.

How did a dunce like you manage to get admitted to the Roorkee University for a degree course in engineering when the entrance exam is next only to the IIT JEE in terms of difficulty and it goes without saying that your foundation in Math, Physics and Chemistry is extremely weak and unfit for engineering. I wonder how you got in.

Roorkee is now under the IIT umbrella.

Besides, your religious bigotry has I guess secured you an administrative job in Saudi Arabia.

If you wish to talk with me, introduce something intelligent or thought-provoking, otherwise keep debating with unintelligent, unclassy, impoverished, crude and fanatical posters like Hugh, Frijoles, Eric and Buford.

Ok, then, get it?
former res

Broomall, PA

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#48715
Feb 6, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.
A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.
Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.
Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
Well....some of my best friends are Jewish :)).....and they tend to say the believe JC existed and was sort of mystic or some such. Not that it's up for a vote.

Other than stating he was the son of god, I guess he was a good Jew? Or was that even enough to make him not Jewish?

Huggy wrote: "While at it explain your man's/Frijoles' words i.e. "I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus."

I didn't check the quote and took him at his word. So took that to mean you did acknowledge JC's existence.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#48717
Feb 6, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting perspective.
I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace.
Is anything new? Was it ever? One could say the same of Shakespeare. Some say it better than others, not that I'm a biblical scholar.

Personally, I like the Sermon on the Mount/The Beatitudes/Golden Rule etc.

Good teaching that most of use could use reinforcing in.

the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.(5:3)
those who mourn: for they will be comforted.(5:4)
the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.(5:5)
they who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be satisfied.(5:6)
the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.(5:7)
the pure in heart: for they shall see God.(5:8)
the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.(5:9)
those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.
True for most of them, but not all.

Some are better than others. More sincere. And many are hypocrites.

In other words...even if one doesn't think JC was the son of god, doing things his way.....well, one could do worse.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48718
Feb 6, 2013
 
PSEUDO-PSYCHOLOGY:

The so-called sciences like psychology that deal with the human mind are so much dependent on physical science that they cannot go beyond narrow limits and ironically everything about their deductions is inferential and of a gross physical kind despite the fact that the mind is a field of consciousness and action that exceeds and defies every gross physical characteristic and standard of assessment. The greatest difficulty faced by science is its incapacity of knowing an object in all its thatness via a union in consciousness and energy of the subject with the object.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48719
Feb 6, 2013
 
PSYCHOLOGY & GENES:

The difficulty with regards to understanding personality is that it is a subjective state involving several subtle factors playing out their respective roles in the gross physical as well as acting subliminally behind the scenes and this difficulty is further increased by the lack of any clear-cut genetic mechanism for psychological inheritance.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48720
Feb 6, 2013
 
LIMITATIONS OF GENES:

Genes are not the exclusive determinants of life.
This is even more evident for subjective states such as self-awareness, abstraction, conscious reflection, intuition, feeling, inspiration and revelation. The poet, the artisan, the sage, the philosopher, the gifted musician and the scientist are not only helped by heredity but also through a vertical non-genetic hereditary transmission. This is recognized to be a complex interplay of learning, example and influence that occurs in human transactions.

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