Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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JOEL

Mumbai, India

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#48589
Feb 5, 2013
 
Going shopping. Bye.
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#48590
Feb 5, 2013
 
SC wrote:
01. Moses has not described any last prophet, while the other jewish prophets have described a Messiah that must be descendant of king David, restoring Jerusalem, and have to come at the end of the days, ect. All the things that Muhammad had fulfilled, right?

I do wonder if you ever read and understood the Tanakh?


02 Muhammad was very patient, then Zaid concluded it must be the prophet. Very logic reasoning.

Oh yeah, back those days how easily people converted into another religion.

I see you believe any tale if they come from Islam, don't you?
Ans.

01. So you left the "debate" on Quranic Chapter 112 and started a "new" argument?

Moses prophesized for some prophet to come after him or not? Who is that Prophet?

Many prophets foretold about Messiah, it is not a strange title with Jews. There have been so many Messiahs in the past and one more will come.

I read Bible from cover to cover, if that is what you mean. Who can say that he "fully understood" any religious scripture? Only fools or those with "little knowledge" can say that.

02. In those days, people were very "quick" to change their religion, no doubt. Just look at how Jesus got his first disciples.

One odd miracle here and there, and lo, they followed you to the end of world, why cant the same thing happen with our prophet?

This ZAID was "more than half convinced" with teachings of our prophet. He only wanted to test his patience and forbearing about which he had read in his Torah. So he devised a scheme to find a way to test it. And when he saw what he was looking for he declared his faith.

Prophets of God have very strong power to attract people, when we see in our days so many people becoming fans and supporters just be hearing one speech or shaking hands with some leaders, what we can say about prophets.

It is not "every day" that new prophets come into the world. It is rarest of the rare occasions and blessed are people who see prophets and meet with them.

And then on the other hand, those who see prophets face to face and listen them speak and teach and…..still reject them, they are the worse humans, lost for ever.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#48591
Feb 5, 2013
 
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I mis-read? Page 1 talks to an increase in aide and Israel receiving the most aide in history. Maybe I mis-read. I was not referring to oil in Israel. I know that there is very little there. It just happens to be in the middle of many other countries that have an abundance of oil and other natural resources. So, the interest has got to be strategic location. Or it might be that we just want to be nice and helpful to our neighbors and allies who tend to spy on us a lot? Relationship of convenience.
You are correct that HISTORICALLY Israel has received enormous amounts of aid.

But CURRENTLY, this is no longer true for the factors already cited (Iraq, the development of the modern Israeli economy etc etc). Time has moved on, and Israels dependency has moved as well.

That past vs present is an important distinction.

So when people start discussing the issue of aid to Israel, often in my experience its either that they are unaware of the actual current facts, OR they are pushing a political agenda that supercedes any fact. In your case I assumed it was the former, not the latter.

I agree that our American geo-strategic concerns are more than oil. Our concerns are about global stability and terrorism. The middle east as a crossroads has always been an unstable place, and the delineation of post-colonial borders without regard to the natural peoples has exacerbated this instability. As a large nation-state I would hope that it is in our interest to do anything that fosters global stability. That includes allying with states with common interests in democracy and western values, as they are obvious partners with a common stake.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#48592
Feb 5, 2013
 
G71 wrote:
01. Why do you believe, what you believe?

When did you start believing what you believe?

02. Were you born into your religion?
Did you choose your religion later in life?

03. The "boy in the box" -I have read about "which is a good idea, just not practical.

If it could be though, and the boy was never taught anything about any god then which god would He choose? Why?
Ans.

01. When you are born into any society, you "first" try to copy the beliefs of your parents. This is the initial phase. But when you grow up and meet different people and study books, you get extra info and then your "family taught" beliefs gets diluted.

When people get to adulthood, they choose different paths for themselves. This is very common, otherwise every one would be following exactly the path of their parents.

02. I was born into a Muslim family, but as I grew older and I studied Islam, my faith grew stronger and I do not argue on the basis because I was born as a Muslim.

I speak with reason and logic. There are many who were born into Muslim family but they do not follow Islam.

And there are many who were born into Non Muslim families and then accepted Islam. I have compiled responses from some of them as to why they accepted islam.

03. If you put a boy in isolation, he will never believe in any of the idols and shapes and Trinity and God becoming a Human etc.

He will believe in a shapeless God that is Creator of this Universe. People who have studied the lives of tribes living in jungles isolated from other humans have come to the same conclusion.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#48593
Feb 5, 2013
 
Clear wrote:
01. If any Christian is seeking to find the true teachings of Jesus then they should take All inspired teachings of Jesus into account, not just those of one person.

02. Many hang their Christian hat on St. Peter, and even say God has started and built His church on Peter.

03. I believe that anyone can take the verse these people use to prove they are right, and simply look a few verses further, to prove they are not.
Ans.

I do not get what are you trying to say or prove.

It is very correct to say that one should look at "all the teachings" of jesus if one wants to follow the path of Jesus.

Just taking one verse from here and there and then making it as the fundamental article of your faith is not correct.

And that is precisely all these sects and denominations have done. They take one verse or a part of verse and make that as of "fundamental importance" and then separate themselves from others.

They say that they follow truth and scripture….but in reality they follow their own vain desires.

Allah Knows best.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48594
Feb 5, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
Creation from nothing is fiction.
As good a T shirt slogan as anything

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

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#48595
Feb 5, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!

We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P

““You must not lose faith ”

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#48596
Feb 5, 2013
 
LOANS Israel itself got nothing for free.
Now it's based on import export.
And do distinguish between what goes to the areas and Israel itself and f.i. to churches that owe land in Israel and that are organised in N.G.O.'s.. Billions have gone to 'palestinians'.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48597
Feb 5, 2013
 

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MAAT wrote:
LOANS Israel itself got nothing for free.
Now it's based on import export.
And do distinguish between what goes to the areas and Israel itself and f.i. to churches that owe land in Israel and that are organised in N.G.O.'s.. Billions have gone to 'palestinians'.
Yes, in the mix are a couple of subtleties which were glossed over.

Its been based on import/exports for quite a few years now. A requirement of the aid is that a certain percentage of it must be used to buy American products - I actually have a friend who works in international development whose job it is to find such eligible products as a condition of American foreign aid (not specifically to Israel, but to everywhere which gets US military aid).

And I dont think I even mentioned the NGO aid, of which very little, if any, go to the Jews.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48598
Feb 5, 2013
 

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MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P
But he still doesnt get it.

(and) he still doesnt realize that Rabbi Boteach is not a Messianic Christian.
Eric

Lake Forest, IL

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#48599
Feb 5, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
But they are unwelcome in Isreal.... I think they should remove the title "Jew" from their names and live in any country of the world.
Exactly, Mecca

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48600
Feb 5, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.

03. If you put a boy in isolation, he will never believe in any of the idols and shapes and Trinity and God becoming a Human etc.
He will believe in a shapeless God that is Creator of this Universe. People who have studied the lives of tribes living in jungles isolated from other humans have come to the same conclusion.
The oldest human religion, and the most commonly encountered tribal religion, is shamanism.

Most forms of Islam are not shamanistic, though the sufis come close in their use of altered states.

Shamanism (pron.:/&#712;&#643; &#593;&#720;m&#601 ;n/ shah-m&#601;n or /&#712;&#643;e&#61 8;m&#601;n/ shay-m&#601;n) is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to encounter and interact with the spirit world.[2] A shaman is a person regarded as having access to, and influence in the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing.[3]
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#48601
Feb 5, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
Creation from nothing is fiction.
rabbee: that is not a good excuse, for you to be all not here in TheTorah fiction.

and just because you reject, the true name of TheStory of Creation we are all here in. does not mean we are, not all here in IT again.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#48602
Feb 5, 2013
 
JOEL wrote:
Religion is redundant!
rabbee: the never changing truth, is always redundantly spoken. as only the lies of the world, constantly change to your evil need.

truth is much simpler, than the lie. since you do not have to remember, all the fictional false reality crap you made up.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#48603
Feb 5, 2013
 
lies give the illusion, of making your own knows grow. peenokieknows!

no G-Dless government, has ever had any real peace. and here you all are, still without peace in the world.

the type of guy, who'll try anything once. so i would not repeat, the same mistake. untill i discovered, it's still all the same mistake without G-D.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#48604
Feb 5, 2013
 

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MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Maat---Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!

HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#48607
Feb 5, 2013
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?
Maat---Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
&#8213; Oscar Wilde
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#48608
Feb 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.
So lets put that STRAW ARGUMENT digression out of the way, and return to my earlier question which created this round of discussion.
My position is that truth is truth, whether it comes from sci fi, or cartoons, or "religious" texts - those are merely mediums.
HughBe---"myopic head" is interesting. Here is a secret, it was one of a series of posts to prove a point. In addition, any honest and moderately intelligent person who reads their comments on the matter would not take it to mean that they believe that Jesus was a work of fiction.

Frijoles---I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.

HughBe--- Really? Are you conscious of the things that you WRITE? Do you understand the utter RUBBISH that you habitually write? NO.

Take your time and follow your own words. YOUR words,"I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus..... I am AGNOSTIC on the matter."

Genius what is the meaning of AGNOSTIC? Reconcile you being an AGNOSTIC with you NEVER doubting.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#48609
Feb 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.
So lets put that STRAW ARGUMENT digression out of the way, and return to my earlier question which created this round of discussion.
My position is that truth is truth, whether it comes from sci fi, or cartoons, or "religious" texts - those are merely mediums.
Frijoles---Silly child, I never said Homer was real

HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Frijoles---All i asked was that you prove that your DELUSION figure was any less fictitious than my delusion figure

HughBe--- In what way is Jesus a "DELUSION figure"?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#48610
Feb 5, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
&#8213; Oscar Wilde
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Maat---Mon, you're EFFIN BRILLIANT!

HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.

Frijoles---“Irony is wasted on the stupid”

HughBe--- Well said, YOU "effin" FOOL.

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